Heavy Duty Pickup Shootout
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Dmace
Elite Member
Great test! It really shows just how close these trucks really are. I really wish they had waited until the 2011 RAM HD's were released though...
A few interesting notes: The Cummins which does not require Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) was constantly within 1mpg of the GM/Ford diesels which require $2.99 per gallon DEF extra. So much for DEF adding big fuel mileage increases.
Also, the Cummins with almost 100 lb.ft less power constantly kept right with the "power kings" of the diesel war and was over $8000 cheaper MSRP.
The "gas guzzler" HEMI was 2-3mpg better than the Ford/GM V8 gasser's and made the same or more power from a smaller 5.7l block.
With the changes coming to the RAM HD for 2011, I bet it would be on top considering the 2010 models came within a fraction of first place in each category. I would still take a tried and proven RAM with a proven drivetrain any day. :thumbsup:
A few interesting notes: The Cummins which does not require Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) was constantly within 1mpg of the GM/Ford diesels which require $2.99 per gallon DEF extra. So much for DEF adding big fuel mileage increases.
Also, the Cummins with almost 100 lb.ft less power constantly kept right with the "power kings" of the diesel war and was over $8000 cheaper MSRP.
The "gas guzzler" HEMI was 2-3mpg better than the Ford/GM V8 gasser's and made the same or more power from a smaller 5.7l block.
With the changes coming to the RAM HD for 2011, I bet it would be on top considering the 2010 models came within a fraction of first place in each category. I would still take a tried and proven RAM with a proven drivetrain any day. :thumbsup:
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dodge man
Super Star Member
Great read, I'll have to read more of it when I have time. Two things that jumped out at me, how well the Hemi did, since some people on this board say its a lousy truck motor
. And why did the 1 ton Ram perform worse than the others in terms of loaded, unloaded, and the hill climb? The 3/4 tons were all very close as were the gassers. I looked at gear ratios and they were all the same. Is the 1 ton Ram that much heavier?
Like you said, it shows how close they are and I'm not sure you can go wrong by a new heavy duty pickup from any of the big three.
. And why did the 1 ton Ram perform worse than the others in terms of loaded, unloaded, and the hill climb? The 3/4 tons were all very close as were the gassers. I looked at gear ratios and they were all the same. Is the 1 ton Ram that much heavier?Like you said, it shows how close they are and I'm not sure you can go wrong by a new heavy duty pickup from any of the big three.
Diamondpilot
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I just read this from front to back. They all seem pretty close. The biggest difference was features which Dodge seemed to lack over the GM and Ford offerings.
The biggest area where one truck shined in my eyes is the speed and time for the hill climbs on the diesel trucks. Ford had a real advantage there which is what I do hauling heavy loads up and down serious steep grades many times from a dead stop or at low speeds.
I will give GM credit on its brakes. The ones on my 05 Dmax sucked compared to the Ford diesels I have owned. It seems they now have best in class breaking in the 1 ton diesel segment. Another area they improved on was the crummy interiors. Looks like they may have a winner. While they have done some things right I will not be buying any GM products for all they have done wrong.
Cant wait to see how Dodge comes back at the competition. While I am a Ford HD guy I would buy a Dodge diesel if they could make a product that beat them out.
At the end of the day they are all very close. Some do this better than others but each have a strong point. My dream truck is still a F-350 SRW 4x4 with a Cummins that makes 400HP and 800 FT LB TRQ with a 6 speed Torq-Shift tranny. I guess I will have to hold my breath.
Chris
The biggest area where one truck shined in my eyes is the speed and time for the hill climbs on the diesel trucks. Ford had a real advantage there which is what I do hauling heavy loads up and down serious steep grades many times from a dead stop or at low speeds.
I will give GM credit on its brakes. The ones on my 05 Dmax sucked compared to the Ford diesels I have owned. It seems they now have best in class breaking in the 1 ton diesel segment. Another area they improved on was the crummy interiors. Looks like they may have a winner. While they have done some things right I will not be buying any GM products for all they have done wrong.
Cant wait to see how Dodge comes back at the competition. While I am a Ford HD guy I would buy a Dodge diesel if they could make a product that beat them out.
At the end of the day they are all very close. Some do this better than others but each have a strong point. My dream truck is still a F-350 SRW 4x4 with a Cummins that makes 400HP and 800 FT LB TRQ with a 6 speed Torq-Shift tranny. I guess I will have to hold my breath.
Chris
Egon
Epic Contributor
From an area of the oilfields of Alberta where P/U's are working trucks traveling mostly gravel and mud roads I hear the Fords limp in with sick transmissions and the Chevy and Dodge come in with broken front suspension parts.
The most popular and has been for some years now are Dodges.
Don't know if the Fellows out there pay much attention to Magazine Reports.
The most popular and has been for some years now are Dodges.
Don't know if the Fellows out there pay much attention to Magazine Reports.
dodge man
Super Star Member
D.P., if you look at the gear ratios Ford uses in their transmission, that most likely explains why they won the hill climbs with the 1 ton trucks. Kudos to Ford for building them that way. I don't know why Chevy and Dodge wouldn't gear theirs the same way. With six speeds, why not gear the first 4 gears for acceleration and pulling power, you always have 5th and 6th gears for fuel economy on the highway.
Diamondpilot
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Yea, I noticed that. I have no experience with a Cummins so I can not commit but pulling the same load with my 05 Dmax was night and day difference from my 06 Powerstroke. The Powerstroke seemed to have the gearing right while the Dmax seemed to be missing a gear ratio. It was really noticeable when downshifting.
What really caught my eye was the way the Ford was geared it had the least percentage of loss when towing. I know the Dodge was handicapped by the older motor with less power so it will be interesting to see how they strike back.
Chris
Dmace
Elite Member
The class 4,5, and 6 trucks (F450, F550, F650, RAM 4500,5500, etc...) are "Medium Duty" trucks. It makes sense to me... :laughing:
Dargo
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I found the article really interesting to read. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised about how close the three manufacturers really are in almost every area. I've owned trucks from all three but they've varied in the model year and specifications.
FlaDon
Platinum Member
When you get into the 1 ton duallys on the 7% & 16%, the GM won. 12,000lb and accelerating at over 53.9 MPH vs 51.9 on the 7% as an example. The .1 second difference in time would be completely gone on a longer grade. It had already cut the gap from .7 to .1 seconds over the run.
Egon
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Wonder what difference decimals of a second make out in the working world.
Diamondpilot
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What really surprised me is how much headway GM has made. They are now on par with Ford on many levels. I applaud them for that. Still would not buy one but give credit where its due.
The main thing Dodge needs to work on is getting the GVWR up and the GCWR up also. They are 7,000# behind the competition in some cases. I guess this will all come with the increase in HP and TQ along with a new chassis they are surely working on so they can compete.
Chris
The main thing Dodge needs to work on is getting the GVWR up and the GCWR up also. They are 7,000# behind the competition in some cases. I guess this will all come with the increase in HP and TQ along with a new chassis they are surely working on so they can compete.
Chris
Dmace
Elite Member
No they don't need to increase the GVWR/GCWR. 13k GVWR / 26K GCWR is more than enough for a 1-ton pickup truck. If you really want a truck to tow/haul more then get a class 5, 6, or 7 truck. The RAM has a max tow capacity of 17k lbs. Anything over that and you are pushing that 26k GCWR limit which requires a CDL...
Also, looking at the test I don't think they need to up the power either since they were within an arm's distance of the other two yet cost $8k less and have a more reliable and durable engine. With the new 8-speed auto they are likely to add to the Cummins diesel for 2011, the fuel mileage should jump way beyond the other two as well.
FlaDon
Platinum Member
Both GM and Ford are over the 26K point. GM for the 3500 rates it at 21,700lbs of towing capacity. That and truck weight is way over 26K.
Diamondpilot
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I am not going to get into the CDL thing. Its been explained many times.
The simple fact is 17K is way behind the competition unless you are brand loyal. I buy what is the the best most capable truck. You may not believe that but the facts are I have had everything but a Toyota in the last 5 years but have had one of them also and it was great.
Now a 8 speed tranny will be interesting. I would be the first one on the lot to test drive a new Dodge with a 8 speed auto and a Cummins that made the power the others are along with a GVWR and a GCWR that was close to the competition.
Chris
Diamondpilot
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schmism
Super Member
dude this has to be nothing but "on paper numbers". There really cant be that much difference in frame designs, curb weights, wheel bases, brakes etc...
just like the HP wars... towing number wars.... they will just "invent" a new larger number to keep up with mr jones across the street.
oddly enough our new 2010 heavy rescue (some sort of class 4/5 chassis) for our FD with a 18K curb weight with tools and 5 personal (per the grain scale) has the same cummings engine and 6spd trans as in the LT pickups.
<cough> in IL up to 26,000 lbs class B non-cdl <cough>
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doall
Platinum Member
well heck yeah GM wins, if they didn't I would be upset after the govenment invested $billions in R&D for them. ha ha
before you start I own a chevy right now, but probably won't again. Love the truck hate the way the company was ran.
before you start I own a chevy right now, but probably won't again. Love the truck hate the way the company was ran.
