Surge Brakes

[oldballs]

Which type of brakes on a 12 ft, tandem wheel, 2,200 lbs trailer would be the good, better, best? I have used this trailer for about ten years with no problems. OE it came with surge brakes. It is not used that much, like I'm not in a business. Occasionaly I'll haul 3 tons (max) of gravel, help somebody move, or take the BX2660 somewhere...doing about 50 mph, mostly on county/city roads with my F-250 Superduty. Thanks

 

[timswi]

Hauling that much weight, electric brakes would be much better. Surges work ok, but they do have issues some times.

 

[Eagleview]

Surge cable brakes or surge hydraulic brakes ?

You really should adjust the surge brake cable with every load . As the leaf springs are fixed at the front with shackles or slippers at the rear , when the trailer is loaded the axles move rearward . The amount they move depends on the weight of the load . A trailer carrying 2 tonne/ton should have the cable backed off more than a trailer carrying 1 tonne/ton to prevent the cable being pulled taught with the result of the brakes dragging and visa versa .

 

[oldballs]

Thanks everybody. They are "surge hydraulic" brakes on all four wheels with shoes against a drum. Which reminds me, I think I'll bleed the brakes to get fresh DOT-3 in... since I'm giving the whole thing some maintenance. I'm glad to hear they are adequate for what I'm doing. Come to think of it, I had to back the star wheels off full so the wheels would not lock up and drag the tires when it was new. Since then, however, they don't drag. And that BX2660 with a hitch sure makes moving it around for parking/maintenance real nice. I'm old now and short to boot. So backing is really a headache with the truck. :confused2:

 

[BruceWard]

Which type of brakes on a 12 ft, tandem wheel, 2,200 lbs trailer would be the good, better, best?

Occasionaly I'll haul 3 tons (max) of gravel, help somebody move, or take the BX2660 somewhere...doing about 50 mph, mostly on county/city roads with my F-250 Superduty. Thanks

Are you hauling 6,000 pounds on a trailer designed for 2,200 pounds? Or does the trailer weigh 2,200 pounds empty?

 

[Diamondpilot]

Most of the 75 or so trialers I tow in my marine business have surge brakes. I tow loads upto 25,000# with no issues with surge brakes. All in all I think surge brakes are stronger than electric, especially the new Disc Surge Brakes. They are simply amazing.

I would stay with what you have. I have nothing against electric but they seem grabby and not as strong or smooth as good surge brakes. Now there are cheap surge brakes also. I also like a backup lock out solenoid on all the systems that I own. With out one backing up anything like my boat, 15,600# on the trailer is just about impossible even with my diesel 4x4 F-350.

Chris

 

[oldballs]

Are you hauling 6,000 pounds on a trailer designed for 2,200 pounds? Or does the trailer weigh 2,200 pounds empty?

The trailer manufacturer lists the empty weight as 2,200 lbs.

 

[timswi]

I still don't like surge brakes..There is no control of brake pressure in the cab, and if the surge isn't adjusted perfectly, you've got problems. I wouldn't buy one. Just my opinion given my experience with them.

Boats and constant loads are less of a variable given that you know your load weight. On an equipment trailer, you could have any amount being hauled without knowing the exact weight.

If that's what you have them and like them, who am I to say? Enjoy.:thumbsup:

 

[Diamondpilot]

I still don't like surge brakes..There is no control of brake pressure in the cab, and if the surge isn't adjusted perfectly, you've got problems. I wouldn't buy one. Just my opinion given my experience with them.

My experience has been different. They are proportional by weight. Now like you said they must be adjusted properly but are trouble free once done and maintained.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

they have pro and cons.

with electric, you can easilly control a sway with a lil application of brake power via the panic switch. better electric controllers have boost and accel/decel features.

if your tow units brakes fail.. electric brakes are uneffected.

on the other hand.. surge brakes work with any vehicle you hook up.. etc. no need for a controller in all vehicles.

if the surge unit is working and has a manual or auto reverse disconnect.. I'd leave it and use it.

if I was buying new.. electric.. but that's me.

soundguy

 

[Renze]

As the leaf springs are fixed at the front with shackles or slippers at the rear , when the trailer is loaded the axles move rearward . The amount they move depends on the weight of the load . A trailer carrying 2 tonne/ton should have the cable backed off more than a trailer carrying 1 tonne/ton to prevent the cable being pulled taught with the result of the brakes dragging and visa versa .

Gee, if surge brakes are at that level of development in North America, i understand why everybody uses electric brakes there !!

In Europe all surge brakes have bowden cables that have the same brake slack irrespective of the spring travel. Knott has the "Backmatic" brake that releases when the wheel rotation is reversed, despite the brake cable being pulled on. The reverse release system used by Alko doesnt work as good.
In general these bowdens require frequent replacements, at least every 5 years. They cost me 50 euro for my tandem trailer, 4 bowden cables.

Off course the biggest benefit of surge brakes vs. electric brakes is that the brake force is self adjusting: When there is little load, the inertia of the trailer is less so it wont brake as hard as when loaded fully, so it wont smoke the tires when empty.

From what i gather, in Europe the focus has ever been on surge brakes, so the experience of this type of brakes among servicemen is higher than in North America. Europeans dont know much about electric brakes so electric has a name to be failure prone. Vice versa, In N.A. surge brakes have the name to be failure prone, because most trailer shops dont know how to maintain them.

 

[Soundguy]

Hey iron horse.. looks like you are in north america now

soundguy

 

[Eagleview]

It's the accent Ive picked up since talking with you guy's that throws people .

 

[timswi]

My experience has been different. They are proportional by weight. Now like you said they must be adjusted properly but are trouble free once done and maintained.

Chris

I don't disagree Chris. For hauling consistant or known weights you can adjust the surge to the load. In my case though, I never know what I'm going to have on the trailer. I may have a 66 El Camino with a 454 in it and then have a garden tractor or a load of wood. Some of those weights are hard to guess and adjust for without some inconvenient trial and error.

My brother has surges on his 4 Winns boat trailer and loves them. However that weight never varies by more than a hundred pounds or so with the boat on it, so the adjustment is a no brainer.

I can just adjust the digital contoller for my electic brakes to the load while driving....Not aguing, just pro's and cons.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I don't disagree Chris. For hauling consistant or known weights you can adjust the surge to the load. In my case though, I never know what I'm going to have on the trailer. I may have a 66 El Camino with a 454 in it and then have a garden tractor or a load of wood. Some of those weights are hard to guess and adjust for without some inconvenient trial and error.

My brother has surges on his 4 Winns boat trailer and loves them. However that weight never varies by more than a hundred pounds or so with the boat on it, so the adjustment is a no brainer.

I can just adjust the digital contoller for my electic brakes to the load while driving....Not aguing, just pro's and cons.

There is no adjustment to surge brakes once installed and set up. The varying weight on the trailer will make the trailer brakes react accordingly. This makes them fully proportional.

Here Renze explains it simply. "Off course the biggest benefit of surge brakes vs. electric brakes is that the brake force is self adjusting: When there is little load, the inertia of the trailer is less so it wont brake as hard as when loaded fully, so it wont smoke the tires when empty."



Now if I was starting from scratch I would get electric brakes. They are 1/3 the cost for one and parts are easier to find. Both types have a place but there is nothing wrong with surge brakes and noting can match the stopping power, especially the new disc surge brakes.

Chris

 

[timswi]

There is no adjustment to surge brakes once installed and set up. The varying weight on the trailer will make the trailer brakes react accordingly. This makes them fully proportional.

Here Renze explains it simply. "Off course the biggest benefit of surge brakes vs. electric brakes is that the brake force is self adjusting: When there is little load, the inertia of the trailer is less so it wont brake as hard as when loaded fully, so it wont smoke the tires when empty."



Now if I was starting from scratch I would get electric brakes. They are 1/3 the cost for one and parts are easier to find. Both types have a place but there is nothing wrong with surge brakes and noting can match the stopping power, especially the new disc surge brakes.

Chris

Never used disk surge. The ones that I have used didn't stop unless the system had a shock to it. I was going down a steep hill to the limestone mine to store the El Camino. The 97 Chevy couldn't get enough "hit" on the surge to slow it down. By the time I arrived on the flat, the rotors were glowing orange. And on other surge trailers I had similar experiences. Things may have improved over the last few years. I really don't know as I've avoided them since then. My trailer is electric now and that's all I'll use. I like having full control.

The newer ones may be better, I don't know. I just like having cab control ...Just my preference I guess.

In theory and all things being equal, surge should a no brainer. Although, in PA I don't think you can buy anything but a boat trailer with surge brakes, might be a reason for that. Who knows?

 

[hawkeye08]

I've used a trailer with surge brakes to haul large boat (28 ft, 10,000lb). Easy to use, easy to maintain. Difficult to use weight distribution hitch setup on, that is the biggest drawback for most towing heavy and the other issue is boat trailers and how they are used...

Surge is really good for boat trailers since the electric doesn't do well when used in salt water (to launch boat at ocean).

A recent development (last 10 or so years I think) is electric over hydraulic. No magnets and electric stuff at the wheels, just normal hydraulic brakes (either disc or drum) and instead of the surge coupler actuating, there is a electric controller at the front of the trailer, making the folks that like electric happy and still able to handle the demands of boat trailers.

U Haul and other rentals like surge brakes because there is no brake controller needed in tow vehicle.

 

[Soundguy]

It's the accent Ive picked up since talking with you guy's that throws people .

we've ruined ya....

soundguy

 

[podagrower]

My experience with surge brakes has been good. Like everybody says, no controller needed, easy to operate (except in reverse). A friend has a trailer with surge brakes and I was pulling it and his tractor with my truck (which is highly incompetent in the brake department). The surge brakes allowed me to "set" the trailer and use the brakes effectively.

On the other hand, my trailer, with electric brakes, almost always results in locked brakes (when empty, just about 100%) behind the truck. But, a swaying trailer is easier to bring under control using just the trailer brakes and electric controller.

 

[Soundguy]

On the other hand, my trailer, with electric brakes, almost always results in locked brakes (when empty, just about 100%)

don't blame those electric brakes just because YOU don't take the time to properly adjust them when you start heading down the road. Takes mere seconds to adjust your controller to reduce braking power to a level that you feel the brakes engagfe and pull.. but not lock up.

Once you get loaded, then you readjust for that load. For cheap controllers..like hopp and drawtite it's 1-2 dials.. IE.. intensity and onset. for more advanced controllers like a prodigy, it's likely a couple buttons and a dial... no big deal.

soundguy