Rolled my 3240, and it ran till it blew ??

[Dead Horse]

don't try to start it without checking for hydrolock as mentioned above.

If youe engine is not already junk, and there remains any appreciable amount of oil in even one cylinder, cranking it over with the started moter will finish it off.

Pull the injectors and turn it over by hand.

 

[Baby Grand]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune and really impressed that you had the presence of mind to try choking a runaway after the fall. I think I would have been halfway to the next county. Hope the damage is minor and you're back up & running soon.
-Jim

 

[DiezNutz]

I'm real new to all this so I'm trying to climb the learning curve as fast as I can. My Kubota B7100 is my first diesel and first tractor. I see that it has a "decompression knob" on it, and the manual says to only use this to turn the engine off in case of emergency. Would the decompression knob have worked to shut off the engine in this kind of scenario? Is this kind of runaway what it is meant for?

Hi Bluelick, yes. D/C knob is primarily for cold starting, but in the event of a runaway, pulling & holding it out fully should kill it. Manual is correct not to use it for normal engine shutoff, or you risk valve train damage.

Unfortunately (in this case), newer Kubotas don't have a D/C knob and it isn't something that can be easily retrofitted. If you're familiar with a jake brake setup (which would've also worked here), it's a somewhat similar concept, but less complicated.

A rotary valve in the breather tube or a shutter plate in the intake (you'd want to make sure it didn't restrict normal airflow at all though) would be the more practical/straightforward mods.

 

[flyingcow]

If you have insurance on this, I would put in a claim. This was caused by a rollover, it did not just runaway on it's own. If it was to runaway on its own, they would put it on the engine manufacturer, but this was caused by an accident.


BTW...glad to hear you're alright and the ROPs worked as it should. Just curious, were you buckled in? I don't make a habit to buckle up, make the kids do it.

 

[montelatici]

Intake usually requires opening hood. Exhaust is usually accessible. Stuff dirt and anything else you can find into the exhaust and it will stop. Like the old potato in the exhaust pipe trick.

 

[DiezNutz]

Like the old potato in the exhaust pipe trick.

The combination of running wide open and the tailpipe awash in oil makes that easier said than done...

You're probably just going to end up taking a deep-fried spud to the groin.

 

[Grandad4]

Restricting the intake may be a good emergency shut-down... in theory. But just be aware these little, high compression diesels really want to keep running... way more than a gas engine of similar size. They will literally try to ingest anything you stuff in the intake pathway... rags, cardboard, your hand, tools... virtually anything. They will actually collapse the intake plumbing trying to get air.

 

[crazyal]

If the 3240's exhaust pipe is in the same place as the 4240 and it was rolled onto the step side you most likely couldn't even get to it. My larger equipment has the intake on the top of the hood but neither would be easy to choke off air because of the rain cap.

Where would the oil come from if it didn't come from the crank case breather?

 

[SteveCornell]

I'm up and on my 2nd cup of coffee, I'll be going out in a bit and checking the tractor out, thanks for everyones suggestions and comments.
The key was turned off as soon as the tractor hit the ground, I was too busy trying to get away from it for the 3 seconds it was rolling over to analyze everything that should be done to stop the engine, the tractor should have died as soon as my *** left the seat but it did not, it immediately started running on it's own.
I was not wearing my seat belt, I usually do in steep situations but in this particular case it probably allowed my to get out of the way of the tractor, if the tractor had come on over, I would have been better off to be buckled in and ride it out but in this "particular case" not having it on probably prevented any injury, will I have it on the next time I operate the tractor?, YES, even on flat ground as I feel that the seat belt more times than not will prevent injuries, just not in this case.
I'm not an inexperienced operator, I've operated heavy machinery all my life and have been in many bad situations and believe me I was doing my best to get to the air intake as I knew that this would kill the engine if everything else failed but it was not possible with the position of the tractor, rags, sock, underwear, or a fire extinguisher don't work if you can't get to the air intake, here is some info on the emergency air shut off 4261 - Intake Air Shutoff Valves these can be operated by a switch, rpms, manual pull cable, air, etc, the ones I have used in the past are spring loaded and the switch \ cable releases the latch and allows the kill to close, you then have to manually reset the kill (re-cock) I'm looking for sources as I'm convinced that every diesel engine should be equipped with one.

Again thanks for eveyones concerns and suggestions, I'll be reporting back in a couple hours.

Thanks!
Steve

 

[TalonDancer]

.... the tractor should have died as soon as my *** left the seat but it did not, it immediately started running on it's own.
I was not wearing my seat belt,....

Well there went my theory I assumed it kept running because you were still in the seat. I guess it was already pulling oil out of the crankcase by the time the fuel pump was cutoff.

FWIW I've always been annoyed that my 3240 will shut off when I raise one cheek for a f**t. Maybe that isn't such a bad thing after all.

Like the others... Glad the ROP worked and you were not hurt.

Talon Dancer

On a side note for others: the 3240 is very sensitive to low air pressure in the front tires. When carrying a heavy load (1/2-3/4 tons) on the forks it can get 'tippy' if a low front tire drops into even a small (3-4") depression while turning. I've had this happen at extremely low speeds while off loading a 3/4 ton pallet of rocks with only the box blade for ballast. The 3240 was so sensitive that my leaning the other way would actually bring her back upright FWIW I was in no real danger since the pallet (and fork) were inches off the ground and would have stopped the roll. None the less, it got my atttention.

 

[ritschner]

That is one of the disadvantages of a closed crankcase system. In a rollover the intake can start ingesting oil through the crankcase vent and rub away. I guess you could revert back to an open breather style setup, but you risk the wrath of the pollution police. Another more common cause of diesel runaway is blown seals on the turbocharger compressor side of turbo diesels. This will also draw oil into the engine intake and is the reason a lot of construction equipment has an air shutoff.

 

[Wacky]

Very sorry about your loss, Thank your lucky stars you were unscathed. The machine can be repaired. If you can do the work yourself, great, if not, good luck. Just remember it could always be worse.

 

[RadarTech]

tough one there..
Glad your ok...

J

 

[RadarTech]

Oh I forgot to add-- let us know what happens when you check the motor out...

J

 

[dodge man]

Someone much wiser than me said "if money can fix your problems, than you don't have problems". That seems to be the case here, good luck and glad you weren't hurt.

 

[montelatici]

The combination of running wide open and the tailpipe awash in oil makes that easier said than done...

You're probably just going to end up taking a deep-fried spud to the groin.

Actually, I had both the decompression cable and the fuel cut-off cable rusted shut (one at a time) for a while on my B5200 and a wet rag in the exhaust was how I stopped the engine for at least a week until I received the two cables. Of course it was at idle.

 

[Rob-D]

Usually you get run away on an old engine that sucks oil through the rings. What may have happened in your case was the tractor turned over and oil sat on the underside of the pistons. As the piston moved downward on the intake stroke it sucked the oil through the rings and this fueled the engine.

If I missed something I apologize but why didn't your seat switch shut the tractor off immediately before this could happen. Were you strapped in tightly? Perhaps this did it.

How did you flip it, were you on a steep incline or did you hit a ditch with a wheel?

Sorry for your trouble, I'd say the engine has been compromised.

Rob

 

[SteveCornell]

Well it appears I'm very lucky in more ways than one......

Went out this morning and replaced all the fuses I pulled last night, I added about 3 quarts of oil, this got it back up in the operating range, I was thinking about pulling the injectors as some had suggested but after awhile I decided to see if it would turn over, I hit the starter and it fired up just like always..... no smoke, no unusual noises..... I went to town and picked up some more Rotella Syn. and came home and changed the oil and filter, degreased the front of the tractor where all the oil blew out and power washed it, there was a small amount of oil on both the inner and outer air filters so I'll replace them.

It appears the engine is OK, the only explanation to this is indeed it had to be running on it's own oil and once the oil got low enough that it quit running into the cylinders (or out the vent line)the tractor quit, there was still a couple quarts of oil scattered throughout the engine so I guess this protected it.

I'm guessing the crankcase vent line is run into the intake air and the oil came through the vent line into the intake (the reason I have oil on my air filters) and was sucked into the engine that way, I don't think it blew past the rings, it had to come through the crankcase vent into the air intake, I may look at rerouting this as well.

I don't think a fire extinguisher is the answer to a runaway engine, the only real solution to prevent this from happening is an emergency air kill which I will be adding as soon as I locate one.

This may never happen again (I hope not) but the next time it does I will have a switch or handle to shut the air off.

Thanks for everyones comments and suggestions, I'll post back and start another topic when I locate an air kill.

Steve

 

[RadarTech]

Well it appears I'm a very lucky in more ways than one......

Went out this morning and replaced all the fuses I pulled last night, I added about 3 quarts of oil, this got it back up in the operating range, I was thinking about pulling the injectors as some had suggested but after awhile I decided to see if it would turn over, I hit the starter and it fired up just like always..... no smoke, no unusual noises..... I went to town and picked up some more Rotella Syn. and came home and changed the oil and filter, degreased the front of the tractor where all the oil blew out and power washed it, there was a small amount of oil on both the inner and outer air filters so I'll replace them.

It appears the engine is OK, the only explanation to this is indeed it had to be running on it's own oil and once the oil got low enough that it quit running into the cylinders (or out the vent line)the tractor quit, there was still a couple quarts of oil scattered throughout the engine so I guess this protected it.

I'm guessing the crankcase vent line is run into the intake air and the oil came through the vent line into the intake (the reason I have oil on my air filters) and was sucked into the engine that way, I don't think it blew past the rings, it had to come through the crankcase vent into the air intake, I may look at rerouting this as well.

I don't think a fire extinguisher is the answer to a runaway engine, the only real solution to prevent this from happening is an emergency air kill which I will be adding as soon as I locate one.

This may never happen again (I hope not) but the next time it does I will have a switch or handle to shut the air off.

Thanks for everyones comments and suggestions, I'll post back and start another topic when I locate an air kill.

Steve

AWESOME!!!

Congrats Steve!

J

 

[TripleR]

Good to hear it worked out OK.