A Credible Global warming Scientist!

Status
Not open for further replies.
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #121  
"Yup, just like in the mideval days."

Insinuation: The Medieval Warm Period was warmer than current conditions. This means recent warming is not unusual and hence must be natural, not man-made.

Truth: While the Medieval Warm Period saw unusually warm temperatures in some regions, globally the planet was cooler than current conditions.
 

Attachments

  • temps_medieval.jpg
    temps_medieval.jpg
    130.1 KB · Views: 84
  • temps_now.jpg
    temps_now.jpg
    98.2 KB · Views: 81
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #122  
What odd ideas people maintain:

Al Gore is getting rich, so that proves climate change is a hoax? WTH?

The climate has changed in the past, so human activity can't possibly be the cause for current changes - What logical sense does that argument make?

The earth is cooling - yeah, right, you wish that were true.

Every time this topic comes up, people offer the same lame ideas based on no science or outright distortions of fact. May as well have one of those old talking dolls, just pull the string and hear the message.

Dave.
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #123  
I think we all need to admit that the planet is too large and complex for man to understand.

I don't think there is anything proven or unproven on either side of the debate. Anybody can prove their point with any kind of study or research. I simply don't think we are smart enough to take in all the variables to get worthwhile information.

It is what it is. How much does a massive volcano eruption add to the greenhouse effect? How many years of records have we maintained to get a good comparison with the last 5000 years?

I am not convinced either way.
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #124  
What part of "the ice is melting" is too complex to understand? I think that most people are convinced that climate change is real and it's due to human activity. I also think those people aren't going to do anything significant to solve the problem until the pain of inaction exceeds the pain of action.
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #127  
I could pull something out of my arse like everyone else but - I don't know why?

If you go with the theory that man made influences trump all else then the Post-WWII 'long boom' of economic prosperity caused the earth to cool.

And the current rise is temps since the 1970's is caused by .... wait for it ... the Clean Air Act of 1970/77.
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #128  
That statement is utter nonsense.

According to NOAA and NASA data, the Earth's average surface temperature has increased by about 1.2 to 1.4 F in the last 100 years. The eight warmest years on record (since 1850) have all occurred since 1998, with the warmest year being 2005. Most of the warming in recent decades is very likely the result of human activities.

Basic Information | Climate Change | U.S. EPA

Oleg Sorokhtin, a fellow of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, says: "Carbon dioxide is not to blame for global climate change," Sorokhtin writes in an essay for Novosti. "Solar activity is many times more powerful than the energy produced by the whole of humankind." In a recent paper for the Danish National Space Center, physicists Henrik Svensmark and Eigil Friis-Christensen concur: "The sun . . . appears to be the main forcing agent in global climate change," they write.

Reported in the Boston Globe: Br-r-r! Where did global warming go? - The Boston Globe

The article goes on to say that 2005 was no warmer than 2007, or 2006. In fact, it says "The record set in 1998 has not been surpassed." It than mentions the letter, written by over 100 "scientists" warning that "the current UN approach of CO2 reduction is likely to increase human suffering from future climate change rather than to decrease it."

Then, there's this: Global Cooling? [1998-2005 data shows cooling trend]

Which indicates, "The official thermometers at the U.S. National Climate Data Center show a slight global cooling trend over the last seven years, from 1998 to 2005."

The NCDC seems to have lots of recent data indicating a cooling trend: NCDC updates database for Dec08 – NCDC’s own graphic shows decadal cooling trend | Watts Up With That?

In fact, in 2008, "all four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously." Go see it for yourself: DailyTech - Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling

One thing is certain: the "science" is not "settled".

Another thing is certain: "climate change" scientists are known liars, and have been discovered to have manipulated data to enhance their own revenue streams.

So, what are we to conclude?
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #129  
This is what I said "However, in my opinion, (based on the correlation of global warming with the population explosion and the Industrial Revolution) that probability [cause is natural] is much lower than the probability that human activity is the sole cause or at least a major contributing factor." So your re-statement is partially correct.

I think what is most alarming is that there are natural cycles that occure over melinia, but this change is happening in a matter of decades, but then what do I know.
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #130  
Oleg Sorokhtin, a fellow of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, says: "Carbon dioxide is not to blame for global climate change," Sorokhtin writes in an essay for Novosti. "Solar activity is many times more powerful than the energy produced by the whole of humankind." In a recent paper for the Danish National Space Center, physicists Henrik Svensmark and Eigil Friis-Christensen concur: "The sun . . . appears to be the main forcing agent in global climate change," they write.

Reported in the Boston Globe: Br-r-r! Where did global warming go? - The Boston Globe

The article goes on to say that 2005 was no warmer than 2007, or 2006. In fact, it says "The record set in 1998 has not been surpassed." It than mentions the letter, written by over 100 "scientists" warning that "the current UN approach of CO2 reduction is likely to increase human suffering from future climate change rather than to decrease it."

Then, there's this: Global Cooling? [1998-2005 data shows cooling trend]

Which indicates, "The official thermometers at the U.S. National Climate Data Center show a slight global cooling trend over the last seven years, from 1998 to 2005."

The NCDC seems to have lots of recent data indicating a cooling trend: NCDC updates database for Dec08 NCDC痴 own graphic shows decadal cooling trend | Watts Up With That?

In fact, in 2008, "all four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously." Go see it for yourself: DailyTech - Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling

One thing is certain: the "science" is not "settled".

Another thing is certain: "climate change" scientists are known liars, and have been discovered to have manipulated data to enhance their own revenue streams.

So, what are we to conclude?

For one thing, I would conclude that this is 2010. You cite data from 2008, including the incredibly obvious idea that if you start with the hottest year in a period, 1998, then you will see a "cooling trend" for subsequent years, at least until that record is exceeded. To get the latest numbers, go to Roy Spencer's site and look at the graph. It is current to April of THIS year.

For some reason, few of the people who argue against global warming seem to dispute that CO2 levels are rising. To say that there is no relationship between CO2 levels and global temperatures simply ignores the physics of the situation. It is not unreasonable to suggest that CO2 levels are increasing due to global warming because, indeed, the solubility of CO2 in water goes down with increases in temperature, and the great CO2 sink of the oceans gives up CO2 with warming. However, if you wish to also say that the earth is actually cooling, how do you then explain the increasing CO2 levels? Certainly it cannot be due to man's activities because....well, just because! So, lets just say that there is no relationship between global temperatures and CO2 levels, even though that is clearly incorrect. And lets also drag up old arguments that never really went anywhere but on the many, many web sites dedicated to debunking global warming.

What all this mainly proves is that you can find anything on the web, and that the people who post anti-GW stuff sure are prolific, even though they lack originality. But then again, you can also find anything you might want to know about Paris Hilton on the web, and some of it might even be true. Lots of hits on the web do not make an argument for "truth".

Again, unless you go to the original source for data, you are getting someone's interpretation. Now, even if you get the original data, it has been "interpreted" by the author, but at least you are one step closer to real data.

Chuck
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #131  
Again, unless you go to the original source for data, you are getting someone's interpretation. Now, even if you get the original data, it has been "interpreted" by the author, but at least you are one step closer to real data.

Not to mention all the great graphs! Ones that you have no idea what data they have been based on, whether they have already been debunked etc etc. but they tell a great story!

Here is a good example:

sunspot.gif


Feel free to ignore the red line in your discussion about how closely temperature and CO2 concentration levels are linked! :D
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #132  
- The same government that failed to react to Katrina and the oil spill is going to stop the entire planet from warming?

- Taxing American businesses and sending that money to third-world countries is going to help somehow? Really? C'mon....

- And India and China refuse to participate?

- And exactly what is the "ideal" global temperature?

- And what if we humans screw things up more along the way?
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #133  
For one thing, I would conclude that this is 2010. You cite data from 2008, including the incredibly obvious idea that if you start with the hottest year in a period, 1998, then you will see a "cooling trend" for subsequent years, at least until that record is exceeded. To get the latest numbers, go to Roy Spencer's site and look at the graph. It is current to April of THIS year.

So, what? Has global warming come back with a vengeance since 2008? I think that's obfuscation, of the most obvious kind. According to rekees4300, 2005 was the hottest year on record, but, if the Earth is "warming", why would it also, at the same time, be cooling? It's either one, or the other. Or, does the temperatue <gasp!> fluctuate?!

For some reason, few of the people who argue against global warming seem to dispute that CO2 levels are rising. To say that there is no relationship between CO2 levels and global temperatures simply ignores the physics of the situation.

I like CO2. So do my trees. According to sources, so do the rainforests. More CO2, please!

It is not unreasonable to suggest that CO2 levels are increasing due to global warming because, indeed, the solubility of CO2 in water goes down with increases in temperature, and the great CO2 sink of the oceans gives up CO2 with warming.

So, global warming isn't caused by greenhouse gases, but, instead, greenhouse gases are caused by global warming? Are you sure that's the direction you want to go? Just to be sure, I'm understanding you to say that global warming is causing an increase in greenhouse gases (specifically, CO2), not that increased CO2 is the cause of global warming. Is that correct? Is that really what you're saying?

However, if you wish to also say that the earth is actually cooling, how do you then explain the increasing CO2 levels?

I don't say that the Earth is cooling. NASA does. Ask them. Of course, I never took the great intellectual leap into the chasm that leads one to believe that global warming causes an increase in greenhouse gases. I was always told it was the other way around. Now, apparently, since we wouldn't buy the "greenhouse gases cause global warming" rhetoric, we're being sold the "global warming causes greenhouse gases" tale. We should just call it "climate change", so we can blame mankind and collect royalties for whatever the weather decides to do! :D If global warming is the catalyst for a catastrophic increase in greenhouse gases, as opposed to greenhouse gases causing global warming, then there is nothing we can do, since all of our economy-destroying efforts are directed towards reducing the production of greenhouse gases, which is futile against the power of the Earth and Sun. We're doomed! Doomed, I say!

Certainly it cannot be due to man's activities because....well, just because!

You mean, despite the fact that, in the US, alone, air pollution is down 41% since 1990, that could have absolutely no effect? If that's the case, then there is nothing we can do, and we're all doomed. But, if reducing the pollution level does not reduce temperatures, then why does increasing pollution levels increase temperatures? It makes no sense. Why should we buy electric cars (futile, in itself, but go ahead and do it, if you like), recycle plastics and buy more expensive, yet inferior, "green" products, since it's not the greenhouse gases that are heating the Earth; it's the self-warming Earth that's creating the greenhouse gases? It seems we've suffered a paradigm shift in "green" rhetoric. :confused2:

So, lets just say that there is no relationship between global temperatures and CO2 levels, even though that is clearly incorrect. And lets also drag up old arguments that never really went anywhere but on the many, many web sites dedicated to debunking global warming.

But, if it's the heat that's causing the increased CO2 levels, then what's causing the heat (which appears to have subsided, according to Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, and RSS)? If it's not the greenhouse gases causing the Earth to warm, then it's not the fault of mankind.

What all this mainly proves is that you can find anything on the web, and that the people who post anti-GW stuff sure are prolific, even though they lack originality. But then again, you can also find anything you might want to know about Paris Hilton on the web, and some of it might even be true. Lots of hits on the web do not make an argument for "truth".

Truth lacks the pinache often ascribed to fiction. You're surprised?

Again, unless you go to the original source for data, you are getting someone's interpretation. Now, even if you get the original data, it has been "interpreted" by the author, but at least you are one step closer to real data.

Of course, if you go to the global warming "scientists", you know you'll get lied to. They've already proven it, when the data they'd collected couldn't prove global warming.

So, all that's left to us is to go outside, and see if it really is "warmer". I'll still never understand how a 1.2 degree F increase in temperature results in global catastrophe, when it was at least 2 degrees warmer, yesterday, and I survived.

Alarmism, for alarmism's sake, I suppose?
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #134  
Not to mention all the great graphs! Ones that you have no idea what data they have been based on, whether they have already been debunked etc etc. but they tell a great story!

Here is a good example:

sunspot.gif


Feel free to ignore the red line in your discussion about how closely temperature and CO2 concentration levels are linked! :D

Sigh! Let us accept the numbers on the graph as correct. Did you assume from my comment that there should be a 1:1 correlation between global CO2 concentration and degree of elevation of the global temperature? Remember, I'm one of those folks who believe at least some of the CO2 increase is due to human activities, so that alone means we are not dealing with a closed system. Also, how long do you reckon it takes for the oceans to respond to a change in temperature of the atmosphere? That the seasonal CO2 concentrations vary significantly indicates a fairly rapid response to temperature changes, perhaps due to surface phenomena and trapping of CO2 in precipitation, but the oceans are deep and there is no magnetic stirrer down there keeping the contents completely mixed. No one said the globe is a simple system. One of the few constants in this whole wrangling messy argument, however, is that the CO2 levels continue to increase. That it does not track directly with yearly temperature variations is hardly surprising; this is a complex buffered system. CO2 in the atmosphere absorbs infrared radiation. Fact.

Chuck
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #135  
S

Alarmism, for alarmism's sake, I suppose?

Amazing. For my thoughts on CO2 levels, read my previous posts. For much of the rest, again.....

No. Never mind. We disagree on almost all of this, and that may be the only fact we can agree on! Have a nice day.

Chuck
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #136  
Sigh! Let us accept the numbers on the graph as correct. Did you assume from my comment that there should be a 1:1 correlation between global CO2 concentration and degree of elevation of the global temperature? Remember, I'm one of those folks who believe at least some of the CO2 increase is due to human activities, so that alone means we are not dealing with a closed system. Also, how long do you reckon it takes for the oceans to respond to a change in temperature of the atmosphere?

Actually I was looking for the 'Temperature leading CO2 graph' which was supposed to debunk the 'CO2 leading Temperature graph' (ala Gore) but that I think was in turn debunked as well. Instead I came across this one that looked like it would be a lot more fun. :D

This one seems to show that CO2 does it's own thing while temperature went up and back down.... seeming to say that there is no correlation between CO2 levels and temperature (or temperature and CO2 levels). At least not over an 80 year period. Which would seem like plenty of time for the oceans to 'respond'.

You gotta admit, half the fun of these debates is the low signal to noise ratio in available 'data'!
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #137  
- The same government that failed to react to Katrina and the oil spill is going to stop the entire planet from warming?

- Taxing American businesses and sending that money to third-world countries is going to help somehow? Really? C'mon....

- And India and China refuse to participate?

- And exactly what is the "ideal" global temperature?

- And what if we humans screw things up more along the way?

we die! 2012 is just around the corner anyway. Just keep polluting!:D
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #138  
Amazing. For my thoughts on CO2 levels, read my previous posts. For much of the rest, again.....

No. Never mind. We disagree on almost all of this, and that may be the only fact we can agree on! Have a nice day.

Chuck

You, too!

I'm going to go home and mow a few acres with my '52 8N (with NO pollution controls!), and then burn some trash! :D
 
/ A Credible Global warming Scientist! #139  
I may mow some with my L210, since my crappy old MTD rider has another broken "axle".

I spent yesterday seeing how much one can pay for a machine that just cuts grass. Makes me almost yearn for the End of Times!

Chuck
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Marketplace Items

2005 Komatsu PC 200 LC (A60462)
2005 Komatsu PC...
2020 VERMEER LP873SD1 VAC-TRON VACUUM TRAILER (A63276)
2020 VERMEER...
2019 CATERPILLAR 326FL EXCAVATOR (A62129)
2019 CATERPILLAR...
2005 Kubota L3130 (A60462)
2005 Kubota L3130...
2017 Case CX145D (A62177)
2017 Case CX145D...
CASE 586H ROUGH TERRAIN FORKLIFT (A64279)
CASE 586H ROUGH...
 
Top