Hydro vs gears for durabilty

[BTDT2]

Another advantage to the hydro is the brake linings should last forever. If you don't know why, then you have never driven a hydro. In the past year, and other then for setting the park brake, I can't recall ever touching the brakes.

If you like to disengage the engine from the transmission on steep hills (shifting up or down) then you will love geared transmissions. If you like to manually shift down on steep hills, and never miss a gear, then a geared transmission is the way to go. If you like to use the brakes, then gears are for you.

If you like to plow fields all day, then both a geared or hydro should do.

If your a lazy slob with bad knees....like me, who prefers to press one pedal to move forward and back .......then think hydrostatic!

If you move dirt with your FEL, I positively guarantee you will love the hydrostatic. Check out your local gravel plant, and I'll bet they have 'ZERO' geared loaders.

If you prefer cheap wines and re-using coffee filters then a geared tractor may be for you. If you like the best, think hydrostatic!

Life is short, why not enjoy it? :thumbsup:

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

If your a lazy slob with bad knees....like me, who prefers to press one pedal to move forward and back .......then think hydrostatic!

With my power reverser, I press NO pedals to move forward and back, so I'm a lazier slob! :thumbsup:

 

[dex3361]

With my power reverser, I press NO pedals to move forward and back, so I'm a lazier slob! :thumbsup:

I have not used a power reverser.

When you stop do you have to use the clutch?

When using the power reverser on a hill does it freewheel as it is changing gears or does it hold back like you have the brakes on?

I am just curious as I work on steep hills and I like the hold ability of the HST transmissions but I am also looking at what is out there that may be better.

I find with the HST (hydrostatic) transmission I dont even have to use the brakes and I have hold back so when I change directions I do not pass through a freewheeling/neutral situation where the tractor can get away from me.

 

[art]

I'm having a hard time deciding on a transmission for a tractor. I will use it mostly for bush hogging, disking land, spraying, pulling drills and packers and such.

I would like a hydro for the occasional loader work, but I am concerned if it will hold up as well as a geared tranny for the majority of regular field work.

Are my concerns valid? I expect 6000 hrs out my tractors before major problems, not a weekender by any stretch. Tractor in question is a l4400 kubota, I have a dozen other tractors from 20-100 hp all have geared trannys.

I'm going to pull this apart for you. You stated your main intententions of use and did not include the loader other then in the second paragraph and for only occasional use.

The fuel savings from a gear drive for the bulk of you uses would make it hard not to want a gear drive!

If the loader work was the bulk of your use then fine go hydro! We change far more clutches on gear drives then work on the hydro's. The first clutch job pretty much levels the playing field of the difference in cost of the hydro.

Hydro's do get used for tillage work and with the proper care should last well beyond your expected life. Proper lubricants is an important part of life of a tractor. The tractor gets far more stress when operating then a car or truck so do take that into consideration as well.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Randall, the power reverser (hydraulic shuttle) is an electro-hydraulically actuated forward-reverse gearset that engages the multi-disk wet clutch when in the center (neutral) position. So neutral is not really neutral, but is "clutch in, or engaged". So, yes, you are disconnected from the driveline when in the "N" position of the power reverser lever. However, moving between forward and reverse with the steering column mounted stalk does the FWD-REV shifting and clutching for you. The clutch engagement is progressive, and optionally adjustable. The system is smart enough to never jerk into gear (popping the clutch) even at higher engine rpms. It is always a smooth engagement.

I use the foot throttle as you would intuitively use a "gas pedal" to regulate the speed in the set gear. This means you can also use the reverser's "N" position to upshift gears while driving at speed on the road. That's really lazy too!

 

[BTDT2]

With my power reverser, I press NO pedals to move forward and back, so I'm a lazier slob! :thumbsup:

I would assume you have to move something for the tractor to know in what direction (fwd or back), and how fast you wish to go?

If you have a mind-reading tractor, I want one too. No one can out lazy-slob me!!

 

[dex3361]

Randall, the power reverser (hydraulic shuttle) is an electro-hydraulically actuated forward-reverse gearset that engages the multi-disk wet clutch when in the center (neutral) position. So neutral is not really neutral, but is "clutch in, or engaged". So, yes, you are disconnected from the driveline when in the "N" position of the power reverser lever. However, moving between forward and reverse with the steering column mounted stalk does the FWD-REV shifting and clutching for you. The clutch engagement is progressive, and optionally adjustable. The system is smart enough to never jerk into gear (popping the clutch) even at higher engine rpms. It is always a smooth engagement.

I use the foot throttle as you would intuitively use a "gas pedal" to regulate the speed in the set gear. This means you can also use the reverser's "N" position to upshift gears while driving at speed on the road. That's really lazy too!

Thanks for the explanation. Does it hold you back on steep hills while shifting gears or changing directions or do you have to hold the brake?

 

[BTDT2]

Art,


Reference your statements: "The fuel savings from a gear drive for the bulk of you uses would make it hard not to want a gear drive!" ...... and ......."We change far more clutches on gear drives then work on the hydro's. The first clutch job pretty much levels the playing field of the difference in cost of the hydro."

Would not the second clutch change "pretty much level the playing field" on fuel savings also, or do most geared tractors only have one clutch change?

Also you say:

"If the loader work was the bulk of your use then fine go hydro!

In my humble opinion, along with 40 plus years of tractor ownership, the use of hydrostatic tractors for close in work, be it brush hogging near fences or trees, spreading gravel, or smoothing land, the ability to infinitely adjust your gearing, direction, and travel speed, with a single pedal, makes for more comfortable and quality work.w

My Cat skid steer and Grand L are hydrostatic, while my John Deere is geared. My little Kubota and has the shuttle shift while my CAT backhoe is a ******* of some sorts. All have their good points, but when I'm in the play-mode, or git-r-done mode, then the Grand L, or Cat backhoe will get the workout.

That's my two cents and you are being ay over-charged









.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

I would assume you have to move something for the tractor to know in what direction (fwd or back), and how fast you wish to go?

My left index finger. I could use my right hand to speed up or slow down with the hand throttle, but I'll usually use my right foot for that. To me, it is more natural to control throttle with a foot pedal, than it is to have two separate foot pedals for FWD-REV or worse, a pivoting treadle for varying torque/speed in a given range.

But this thread is about durability. HST is probably more forgiving of bad/inexperienced operator abuse. Its enemy (HST) is probably heat. You can grind gears and burn out clutches, but you can overheat HSTs. Actually HSTs with multi-range trannys are "gear" tractors too.

My 37 year old IH 454 is still on its original clutch.

HSTs may, over time, lose tractive effort, therefore efficiency as internal components wear out. I recall hearing of some older IH hydros that eventually get to the point where they can't pull their way out of a paper bag.

My Case 580, which is TC drive, just another type of hydraulic propulsion has a pooched torque converter. It will move OK in 1st or 2nd, but forget 3rd or 4th. Only $7000.00 to fix, so I stick to 1st gear.

The answer is.... own one of each

 

[Gizmo2]

With my power reverser, I press NO pedals to move forward and back, so I'm a lazier slob! :thumbsup:

I let the wife use the tractor. So what does that make me? I know, smart!

 

[BTDT2]

The answer is.... own one of each

I do, actually two:thumbsup:

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Thanks for the explanation. Does it hold you back on steep hills while shifting gears or changing directions or do you have to hold the brake?

I usually avoid shifting gears on a steep incline. Shuttling between forward and reverse, though is usually not a problem. If you flip the reverser directly to the opposite direction, the momentary auto application of clutch won't cause the tractor to "take-off" down the hill on you, but rather will change direction smoothly and in control, provided you are in a safe operating range setting for the working conditions. Multi-plate wet clutches are extremely durable and long lasting, over single-plate dry clutches.
You would need to hold with the brakes if you disengage the clutch manually

Now, if you were in-transit on the road, in high range 2nd gear and you are going down a steep hill and wanted to up-shift, then using the power reverser lever "N" is no different than pushing the clutch pedal in. The tractor will coast down the hill picking up speed as long as the driveline is disengaged from the road.

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

I am just curious as I work on steep hills and I like the hold ability of the HST transmissions but I am also looking at what is out there that may be better.

I find with the HST (hydrostatic) transmission I dont even have to use the brakes and I have hold back so when I change directions I do not pass through a freewheeling/neutral situation where the tractor can get away from me.

Randall, It sounds like for your specific application the HST is the best choice for the reasons you have stated. With hydraulic shuttle, all you are really doing is getting the machine to do the clutching for you as you change direction using a separate lever. Otherwise, they behave like any geared vehicle with a standard transmission.

 

[soulasphil]

As I have often posted in other threads, I love the power reverser. You must not give too much importance to clutch changes in your budget predictions. When I traded in my 1963 Massey 35 last year, it had around 13 000 hours (the meter broke down shortly after 10 000). The original clutch was working like new. With the more recent development of a variety of shuttle systems, clutches should live even longer !

 

[lawn_king]

HYDROHYDROHYDROHYDROHYDROHYDROHYDRO. I would go with a hydro.

 

[Johndeere3720]

I own a hydro and two gear. The hydro is nice for getting close up to buildings and such but doesnt have as much torque as Gear in my opinion. As a comparison, My 169D 19hp Yanmar will easily out pull my Grandpa's John Deere 2210. I have to admit Hydro makes loader work way easier but Gear gets more power to the ground and will spin out way before a hydro which could stall. Also, you already own Gear tractors. I hate it when i get on a hydro and cant find the clutch. just my :2cents:

 

[Soundguy]

Carver,

Most large construction equipment (loaders, scrapers etc.) is hydro. Questions on durability should be a non factor.

About the only real question is efficiency. Hydro's are a little less efficient than gears, and efficiency is often not a problem when you have a lot of extra HP.

Joe

HUGE.. HUGE difference in a variableswash plate style hydro in a tractor and some of the things called hydro's in heavy equipment. .. IE.. torque converters.. etc..

hmm.. must be spring again.. I see this topic has come up again..

soundguy

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

HUGE.. HUGE difference in a variableswash plate style hydro in a tractor and some of the things called hydro's in heavy equipment. .. IE.. torque converters.. etc..

hmm.. must be spring again.. I see this topic has come up again..

soundguy

Deja-vu, all over again!

 

[canoetrpr]

Having driven gear and Hydro I strongly prefer the latter for my mixed use. Heck I didn't even plan to get a loader till the guys here talked me into it. Now my loader is about 75% use of the tractor.

That said, I'd love to spend time doing some loader work with a power reverser / GST. I can't see there being much effort in flipping from forward to reverse while doing loader work. It would be nice to have throttle control on my foot and the ability to set a gear for mowing and such.

 

[canoetrpr]

Something worth pointing out that I see in my area anyway is that hydro's seem to hold their value almost 100%.