Gone Back To Gear Tractor?

[Soundguy]

I have a yard full of different types of hydrostatic or hydraulic, or torque converter driven heavy equipment at work.. get to run those a little.. used to run them all the time... still prefer to come home and run a plain crashbox gear tractor though..

soundguy

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

You can push-start a gear tractor if you have to.

 

[RobertN]

Aint got it no more, but the Farmall "A" I had could crank start

You can push-start a gear tractor if you have to.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I have both gear and HST tractors and like them both for there intended application. For a small tractor that will be used for general utility work I like HST, especially for loader work. For field work I like a gear driven tractor.

I've also spent many hours running larger tractors with full power shift and power reverse. IMO its the best blend of max efficiency, productivity, and durability. I wish they would offer it in smaller tractors, but my guess is it would be cost prohibitive for most consumers.

 

[lawn_king]

I have to say that my international gear tractors were great machines, but after a decade of hydros and now into the kubota hydrostat plus, there's no going back!

 

[flusher]

Just a curiosity poll. Has anyone actually gone back to a gear tractor, or threatened to do so, because they a.) wished to save a few dollars? b.) gotten weary of the HST whine, or c.) another reason of your own?

Not so much interested in a zillion posts by those who love their HST and wouldn't go back, that's obviously the vast majority. Just interested in hearing from those who have or are thinking about swimming against the tide.

Not a matter of going back to a gear tranny in my case. I started with a new 2005 Kubota B7510HST (21 hp engine, 17 hp pto, 4WD) with the LA302 FEL which worked fine when all I had to do was mow my 10 acres and move some dirt and gravel around.

Later I decided to plant a hay crop (oats) so I bought a new 2008 Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto, 2WD, gear tranny) with the ML250 FEL. Need the hp for plowing, discing and baling.

There's a bit of learning involved in using the FEL with a gear tranny, but your skills improved rapidly with practice.

And I like the sound of that big Mahindra engine.

 

[ModMech]

I just picked up a used tractor from a local dealer. It is a NH TC40 HST(previous was a smaller Kubota HST). I asked about tranny issues, because this came up here on TBN so often.

He has not seen a failed HST in 4 years. And that was one. Not much in the way of gear trannies either.

After over 10 years here on TBN, there has been a lot of hoopla about tranny failures, but not many posts, gear or HST.

Maybe someone could do a search and tabulate the data on failed trannies, gear or HST?

Show me the data! All I see is speculation...

Our 2001 Kubota has already suffered an HST failure where the directional control would not return to "N" and transitioning from F to R or vice-versa was an excersize in wheel stands and skidding because the control valve was sticking. This all eventhough the suggested maintenance has been preformed exactly as specified by Kubota. I'm not making degrading remarks toward the Mfg, just stating facts. The neighbor has an old IH, never had a clutch or trans work but after 40+ years it won't start. I also have GE and WH tractors with gear transmissions, no trouble with either and the newest is over 30 years old. Granted both are yard & garden tractors (SCUT), but data just the same.

The Kubota's HST got VERY HOT just pulling a load of logs from the neighbor's back field to our yard for splitting, there is NO WAY it would hold up to serious field work based on that and the 2 hours we spent in that field with the tiller breaking soil. It gets hot fast! Everyone knows that hot oil/transmission fuild = bigtime bad for durability/reliability.

 

[jenkinsph]

Our 2001 Kubota has already suffered an HST failure where the directional control would not return to "N" and transitioning from F to R or vice-versa was an excersize in wheel stands and skidding because the control valve was sticking. This all eventhough the suggested maintenance has been preformed exactly as specified by Kubota. I'm not making degrading remarks toward the Mfg, just stating facts. The neighbor has an old IH, never had a clutch or trans work but after 40+ years it won't start. I also have GE and WH tractors with gear transmissions, no trouble with either and the newest is over 30 years old. Granted both are yard & garden tractors (SCUT), but data just the same.

The Kubota's HST got VERY HOT just pulling a load of logs from the neighbor's back field to our yard for splitting, there is NO WAY it would hold up to serious field work based on that and the 2 hours we spent in that field with the tiller breaking soil. It gets hot fast! Everyone knows that hot oil/transmission fuild = bigtime bad for durability/reliability.

While you may have witnessed the sticky valve and the neighbors tractor running hot I wouldn't assume that all hydro tractors have problems. I know both of my hydros' run cool under load.

 

[Tractor Shopper]

Honestly this Gear vs Hydro fight goes on and on, both have advantages and work well in different applications but when it come down to it, it's operator perference, I have a 16x16 shuttle and do alot of loader/ shuttle work that a hydro would be awesome for but the shuttle does the work just the same, and pretty well. Again, a machine is just as versatile and as good as its operator and if your paying for it buy what makes you happy and what you want to operate.

 

[Baranx4]

I have both gear and HST tractors and like them both for there intended application. For a small tractor that will be used for general utility work I like HST, especially for loader work. For field work I like a gear driven tractor.

Your right on the money with this, for loader work less than 50 hp it's hard to beat a hydro for speed. I run a JD 4700 hydro at my in-laws and a kioti dk40se gear at my house. For quick changes going forward or backing up a hydro is hard to beat, now pulling a bottom plow and I like the gear drive. I wear ear protection with both so the whin doesn't bother me.

For a less skilled operator the hydro is the way to start out since you have less to worry about. I have a friend who's a landscaper and he only buys bobcat skid steers or hydro tractors for site work since somewhere along the season he's going to be breaking in a new operator and the hydro forgives.

 

[Lt CHEG]

In the unlikely event that I ever added a second tractor to the stable I'd probably want a gear tractor but it would have to be at least a power shuttle where I could change directions without clutching. I wish that there were more options in terms of power shift tractors like most full size TLB's use for compact tractors. I've never played with MF's Dyna QPS but it sounds promising on paper.

As long as I only own one tractor it will remain a hydro. It will be used for mowing, snow removal and loader work far more than it will be used for any ground engagement tasks. The ability to easily work around objects and change directions with the hydro means that's what I've got to have. As said previously if I had an extra tractor some day it would almost certainly be a gear unit and would be used for whatever ground engaging chores I had.

 

[bp fick]

Quote: "I wish that there were more options in terms of power shift tractors like most full size TLB's use for compact tractors"

Lt. CHEG, What you say is true. In the smaller tractors, the option for gear isn't readily available. It is not unlike the lack of a 5 speed option in many (most) cars. Which is understandable in that no manufacturer can gear up (pun intended) for sales that don't constitute more than 10% of the model's sales.

The only gear option from Kubota in their subs and cuts seems to be a single B2320 model. If I did the math correctly, it does amount to virtually a 10% savings on the tractor price, however. Not chicken feed.

If I read the Deere site correctly, it follows a similar pattern of thought.

 

[pitt_md]

When looking at tractors I went with a gear/Mech. Shuttle tractor to get as much tractor as I could get for my money. HST utility tractors were a lot more money.

 

[Chilly807]

I'm pretty happy with mine (gear). I talked with a friend (HST owner of L3400) yesterday about snaking out logs at idle in low range. His comment was that he'd have to have the engine running about 2000 rpm to get any hydraulic flow to speak of. It got me to thinking I'd really made the right decision for me and my use.

On the back side of things I find I'm waiting for the hydraulics more than I'd like when doing loader work, for example dumping a bucket full of snow takes a few seconds more when you're back to an idle than at working speed.

I think the HST will hold up to 99% of all users. My concern, (call me paranoid here) is that I might not be one of them..

Never owned an HST machine, so I can't say I'd go back. I AM happy to stay where I am, not sorry I didn't get the HST option.

Chilly

 

[bp fick]

Honestly this Gear vs Hydro fight goes on and on, both have advantages and work well in different applications but when it come down to it, it's operator perference, I have a 16x16 shuttle and do alot of loader/ shuttle work that a hydro would be awesome for but the shuttle does the work just the same, and pretty well. Again, a machine is just as versatile and as good as its operator and if your paying for it buy what makes you happy and what you want to operate.

What you said is true, but not really the point of THIS thread. This one is NOT about that old "fight" at all. It is about buying gear, going back to gear and why? A nuance perhaps, but nonetheless....

 

[jdonovan]

What no one has mentioned yet is WAF (wife acceptance factor)

While I can run a 12x12, loader, and 3-point all at the same time just fine, my other half can't. If I'm away on a trip and she needs to push snow, mow etc... I know she operate the machine on a basic level because of the HST.

We used to have an old MF290 and we tried more than a few times to get her seat time and the clutch operation was different enough from her car that it she never could master it and the teaching sessions worked out poorly. Probably took 1000 hours of clutch life off that disk and spent gallons of tears that season. At the end of the year we both decided the next machine needs to be an "automatic" for both of our sanity.

An ideal world would be a small CUT or SCUT for near the house work, and a nice gear utility for the heavy field work.... anyone have this weeks lottery numbers?

 

[Bob_Young]

At the risk of scoring an 'F' for comprehension on this thread, I'd like to relate an issue with hydros that I have some firsthand experience with.

The neighbor has an old IH 1066 Hydro (not HST, I know, but close for the day) that has a very strong engine but a worn out tranny that wimps out when fluid temperature rises. On a warm summer day, that 120HP tractor can barely pull a hay rake.

The cost of getting the 30+ year old transmission rebuilt is prohibitive, so they just live with it and try to limit the tractor to jobs needing a PTO mule. Seems a shame as strong as the engine is and as good shape as the rest of the tractor is, that it just can't pull.

I love the HST on my B7610 and sometimes wish my larger tractors had HST. But 30 years of usage, which is nothing to a gear tranny, could well be terminal to an HST. The parts and expertise needed for an overhaul could be more than the tractor is worth.
FWIW
Bob

 

[wolc123]

For cutting the lawn, you cant beat a hydro, absolutely no contest. I went from hydro to gear, then back to hydro for lawn mowing. I suppose a hydro would be better for loader work also, although I have never done it. My shuttle shift gear trans works well on the loader. For any of the field work I do, including ground engaging tasks and open field rough mowing, gear tractors are best. If you can swing it, it is best to have one of each. A gear tractor with R1 tires for off the lawn, and a hydro with turfs for on the lawn. I have one of each for on the lawn, and (4) gear tracotrs for off. My gear and hydro lawn mowing tractors are equal hp, but the gear has a 6" wider cut. The hydro usually gets the lawn cut faster in spite of the narrower cut because the ground speed can always be perfectly matched to conditions. You can notice the efficiency loss in thick grass however, as the wider gear tractor will never bog down even in real thick grass at high ground speed, while the hydro needs to slow down in such conditions to keep from bogging down. I dont fertilize my lawn much so thick grass is usually not a problem, giving the edge to the hydro. There may be a time or two in the late spring of a rainy year, when the grass is thick, that the gear can get it cut a little faster.

 

[RobertN]

While I feel for you and Spydrlk, this makes two noted HST issues. A search of TBN with multiple search words, really did not bring up much.

So, although you had an issue, it does not indicate a reliability problem overall. I saw posts that indicated folks did not understand HST, some had issues with them centering and a few other minor issues mostly fixed by regular maintenance. This place has had millions of posts, but not many at all that indicate actual HST failures.

So, reliability does not seem to be an issue with either tranny type; hydraulic or gear.

I in no way want to downplay the fact that you and Spydrlk had issues; I would be upset if one of my tranny's had an issue. But, overall, I do not see the reliability issues. Not here. I mean, we're talking 0.00001% reliability issue.

I have driven a bunch of different tractor; mostly for homeowner stuff, and backhoe work. My old Farmall-A was easy to use with it's antique gear tranny. A friend had a 30hp Massey CUT with a shuttle shift(had to clutch to shift, start/stop). Easy to drive. Spent fair time a Kubota L35 GST. Like that tranny, although did not drive a lot; was using the hoe. So, not downplaying gear tractors...

I personally, would probably go gear for a plowing tractor. Like that guy on TV, RonCo, "set it and forget it". Set the tranny in gear, and plow.

Our 2001 Kubota has already suffered an HST failure where the directional control would not return to "N" and transitioning from F to R or vice-versa was an excersize in wheel stands and skidding because the control valve was sticking. This all eventhough the suggested maintenance has been preformed exactly as specified by Kubota. I'm not making degrading remarks toward the Mfg, just stating facts.

 

[dcyrilc]

I'm pretty happy with mine (gear). I talked with a friend (HST owner of L3400) yesterday about snaking out logs at idle in low range. His comment was that he'd have to have the engine running about 2000 rpm to get any hydraulic flow to speak of. It got me to thinking I'd really made the right decision for me and my use.

On the back side of things I find I'm waiting for the hydraulics more than I'd like when doing loader work, for example dumping a bucket full of snow takes a few seconds more when you're back to an idle than at working speed.

I think the HST will hold up to 99% of all users. My concern, (call me paranoid here) is that I might not be one of them..

Never owned an HST machine, so I can't say I'd go back. I AM happy to stay where I am, not sorry I didn't get the HST option.

Chilly

Chilly,
I have found with my JD2240 that I can run the throttle with my heal while my foot is on the brake to speed up the hydraulics while using the loader.