Gone Back To Gear Tractor?

[jinman]

1. Direct torque to wheels
2. No whine
3. Simplicity/maintenance
4. Lower cost

Did I miss any so far? Any more reasons you will go/stay/have gone back to gear?

Again, this isn't bait for the argumentative, just gathering of information.

Yep, I think you missed the biggest one. Anytime you upgrade above about 55 hp, you will be in the land of gear-only. CVT may change all of that, but currently if you want a 75 hp tractor, you better be able to shift some gears.

 

[Egon]

I beleive some of the newer geared transmissions on the larger tractor can shift for themselves under certain condition.

Not much resemblance to a collar shift.

 

[rdbrumfield]

HST works well for my lawn mower. I have tried it with a tractor, I guess after 50yrs with gears that is where I am staying.

I will say, the best all around tractor I ever owned, had two of them, was the 336D Yanmar. I loved the 3sp powershift with the 4 ranges and a two speed pto. It is really a shame JD didn't pick up on that then they got Yanmar to stop competing in the U S as they were building the JD.

For a 33hp unit at the time I think it was the best on the market. Sure miss mine.

 

[firefighter jim]

If I ever get another tractor (I'm getting older now!) I might just go back to gear drive. Although my 2 Kubota HST's have done a great job, I don't like the whine. That said, plowing snow this year has been nice with the HST!

 

[robert23239]

Sometimes it might be the MFG you purchase the equipment from.
The Deere 4020 was about 95 HP and it had a HST powershift. When coming to the end row you could shift down 2 or 3 gears and slow down with out losing RPM. Slow enough to make the turn and shift up again. It worked great for the newer planters that had a PTO.
The 4020 was designed is the 50's and it was one reliable tractor. In fact many are still running today. I like the standard for the cost, cheaper to fix and when leaving a field, there as that pause when I shift to road gear, and let out the clutch, the smokes roll out of the exhaust, the power is heard and the extra speed is a great feeling as it feels like I am flying down the road.
Sometimes I fail to understand the America Tractor market. There is so much available.

R.

 

[Baby Grand]

1. Direct torque to wheels
2. No whine
3. Simplicity/maintenance
4. Lower cost

Did I miss any so far? Any more reasons you will go/stay/have gone back to gear?

My $.02: I bought a GST for the 26.5 vs 25 PTO HP. I know, it sounds trivial, but when you figure the cost of a new machine and what that works out to in $/PTO HP, or drawbar HP, it's a significant premium you pay for less power. My original intent was to do a lot of ground engaging work and converting more diesel to heat wasn't my idea of a bargain, either. Then there's the added thermal load on the cooling system. Plus I've always prefered a machine with simple, direct controls vs automation. I do make exceptions for electronic fuel injection, ignition and spark advance. No contest there - they save fuel.

-Jim

 

[foggy1111]

1. Direct torque to wheels
2. No whine
3. Simplicity/maintenance
4. Lower cost

Did I miss any so far? Any more reasons you will go/stay/have gone back to gear?

Again, this isn't bait for the argumentative, just gathering of information.

Hmmmmm.....Reliability? And I think Roy Jackson said it best: Gears and vertical exhaust are the "the signs of a manly tractor". You hydro guys are a buncha wimps!!

(OK.....I admit it......I wish for a hydro at times)

 

[RobertN]

I just picked up a used tractor from a local dealer. It is a NH TC40 HST(previous was a smaller Kubota HST). I asked about tranny issues, because this came up here on TBN so often.

He has not seen a failed HST in 4 years. And that was one. Not much in the way of gear trannies either.

After over 10 years here on TBN, there has been a lot of hoopla about tranny failures, but not many posts, gear or HST.

Maybe someone could do a search and tabulate the data on failed trannies, gear or HST?

Show me the data! All I see is speculation...

I have not actually "gone", but I WILL GO from HST to Gear.

Why?

- More relaible
- Durability, I cannot see an HST pulling a disc or plow thru a field w/o overheating the hydraulics and god forbid if the HST were to break, the cost!!!!
-

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Robert, I think that you are going to like that bigger tractor.

Hope that it works for you.

 

[RoyJackson]

Hmmmmm.....Reliability? And I think Roy Jackson said it best: Gears and vertical exhaust are the "the signs of a manly tractor". You hydro guys are a buncha wimps!!

(OK.....I admit it......I wish for a hydro at times)

Never wished for a hydro, but sometimes (like the last two snowstorms) I think a power-reverser would be nice. But not enough to go for a newer tractor and new payment!

I didn't go back to a gear tractor (since I already have one) but I did trade an old Ford Ranger with automatic off on a newer Nissan Frontier with a 6 speed manual. Does that count?

 

[bp fick]

Roy

Yeah it counts, sorta. I have owned 6 compact pickups over almost 25 years. Only one was an automatic. I towed my big boat (the one you have for only 5 years so your kids can ski during their teen years?) and burned up the trans. Entirely, 100% my fault.

Still, went back to 5 speed ever since. Current '05 Ranger has a 5 speed. Those little engines just work better when you can determine the gear instead of the "hunting" for the right one with an automatic. That "hunting" drove me nuts. Every 5 speed I had also got 3 more mpg as a bonus. Off topic, but true.

 

[allenr]

Yep, I think you missed the biggest one. Anytime you upgrade above about 55 hp, you will be in the land of gear-only. CVT may change all of that, but currently if you want a 75 hp tractor, you better be able to shift some gears.

Seems to me that CVT is little more than HST by another name. When CVT was first introduced on some Eoropean cars it was - from memory - a steel vee belt on variable Vee pulleys.

I assumed tractors were the same, but only took an interest since Fendt brought out the 200 Vario series - which start around vineyard horsepower.

Admittedly the image I've attached is of a much bigger vario and seems to have two swash plate hydro motors - the 200 series only has one.

But the point remains - it's a HST. Obviously they've done well to get from 20 metres/hour to 50Kmh with no range changes and the cruise control sounds great - but will it last on heavy draft work?

Fendt cvt vario image by Tellarian on Photobucket

http://www.fendt.com.au/download/09344300_FE_200_24-S_GB-Internet.pdf

I was surprised how little I could find on the net about New Holland and Case CVT tractors - and how their CVT works.

 

[allenr]

Hmmmmm.....Reliability? And I think Roy Jackson said it best: Gears and vertical exhaust are the "the signs of a manly tractor". You hydro guys are a buncha wimps!!

(OK.....I admit it......I wish for a hydro at times)

I tend to agree - but who is or was Roy Jackson?

 

[allenr]

Sorry, just came across Roy earlier in this thread - and he's very much with us. Humblest apologies Roy!

 

[SPYDERLK]

I just picked up a used tractor from a local dealer. It is a NH TC40 HST(previous was a smaller Kubota HST). I asked about tranny issues, because this came up here on TBN so often.

He has not seen a failed HST in 4 years. And that was one. Not much in the way of gear trannies either.

After over 10 years here on TBN, there has been a lot of hoopla about tranny failures, but not many posts, gear or HST.

Maybe someone could do a search and tabulate the data on failed trannies, gear or HST?

Show me the data! All I see is speculation...

Heres one. Extremely inconvenient. Too much snow everywhere to check it out yet.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/162734-help-mighty-mouse-nibbled-kryptonite.html
larry

 

[D7E]

I have not actually "gone", but I WILL GO from HST to Gear.

Why?

- Ground speed control (over longer distances) is superior with a gear.
- More relaible
- Greater PTO HP for a given Engine HP than with HST.
- Less costly
- Durability, I cannot see an HST pulling a disc or plow thru a field w/o overheating the hydraulics and god forbid if the HST were to break, the cost!!!!
- Best of all, I won't need my right foot for hours at a time!

Ill agree with that..!

 

[taborekle]

Just spent the last 3 weeks moving snow, much of it with my FEL on my HST tractor. Loved it. No shifting. Fluid in movement. At one point I loaned my tractor to a neighbor who needed to clear his parking area. He has used a geared tractor in the past. Again he loved the lack of shifting and the fluid motion of the FEL work. We're talking about having to skip thousands of shift operations in that time period.

I also like that it's much easier to learn. I don't have any issues with letting my son, wife or neighbor borrow it. The ability to 'get off the gas' peddal and have it brake. No worries about clutching on a hill. Much simpler to pickup for a newbie.

Huge fan of HST.

 

[RobertN]

Any luck with it? I hope you can get it going, especially with snow hampering efforts. Would be interested to hear the final diagnosis too.

Don't get me wrong in my previous post; I know tranny failures occur. But, folks make it sound like HST are new fangled will die a horrible death tranny's. Even for gear, speculation of various deaths of the tranny's and clutches.

My point is, after 10+ years here, and 1-1.5 million posts on the board, tranny failures of any sort(gear or HST), are few and far between.

Heres one. Extremely inconvenient. Too much snow everywhere to check it out yet.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/162734-help-mighty-mouse-nibbled-kryptonite.html
larry

 

[mostly_gas]

When I am doing snow removal I do wish for synchronizers when I shift.
whether or not my next tractor is gear will be dependent on what is available (will likely buy used) and where I end up moving to.

 

[RoyJackson]

I tend to agree - but who is or was Roy Jackson?

Who he was is some semi-senile old man from the eastern part of the United States (obviously not all there...look at the hat).
But he was a manly old SOB!