Troy-Bilt Horse ID

[CR172]

Well, I've done a search here and found several places to look, but. We just acquired an older Troy-Bilt Horse with a 7HP Kohler K161T engine. The thing runs and works great. It has the 2 belts. I have found both the owners and service manual for the engine, but I can't find any model or serial numbers on the tiller itself. I've looked all over the castings and there aren't any numbers stamped anywhere. The serial number from the engine indicates it is a 1979. Also, the labels on the tiller shroud look different from all the others I've seen. It doesn't say Horse on it anywhere. It does say Garden-Way...

Any ideas?

 

[2manyrocks]

I thought they were cast into the tiller housings that are visible from the top of the tiller, but I don't know when they started doing this. Garden Way was the manufacturer for years until they were bought out. Troy Bilt was just the brand name of their tiller. The Horse was the largest tiller model they made, but there were different engine options available. Later, they made Pony, Juniior, etc. models that had smaller frames and smaller engines.

 

[CR172]

Yep. Everything I've read says they are stamped in the transmission case above the right wheel. I can't find any stampings. The only thing I have found is a casting number, GARDEN WAY--TH-1019, on one of the handles.... This thing is all cast and ways a bloody ton.....

 

[RandyT]

the serial number is stamped into the transmission casing just below the handle pivot on the right side of the tiller on a little 3/8 tab that faces straight up just below the top cover plate. most of the time you have to use a wire brush to remove the paint to read the serial number

 

[bontai_Joe]

Randy is correct in where the serial number is located. The photos do show you have a Horse tiller. The rear tine shield is different than what I am used to seeing, yours does not have the side shields protecting the tines and containing the soil as it gets tilled. The Kohler looks VERY familar to me, mine has one was bought in 1979, and you are correct in that the decals do not look like what I am used to seeing. Are you in the USA? or some other place that might have required different decals? I ask because of your use of the phrase "weighs a bloody ton", reflects a British/Canadian influence?

 

[DennisArrow]

Very timely thread for me!..........I just acquired a Troybilt that I believe is a horse. The serial number that you describe above indicates that it was made in 1979 but it has an 8 horse Briggs..........The best part is is that it runs and does what it is supposed to do but just needs a bit of overdue maintenance.

A couple of questions to begin with and then I suppose I shall end up starting another thread. It does have electric start so that is why I am guessing that it is a Horse. It only has one belt. Is this correct and then do you change the belt on the pulleys for different speeds or should it have 2 belts?........I have only found an owners manual on the MTD websight that covers later years and that is what it indicates...........

Those manuals indicate that one can turn off the PTO with a clutch device. For the life of me I cannot find that on this. Did this year have those?

Anyway..........am going to use the manuals from MTD to do long overdue maintenance, tightening, adjusting, fluids, etc and am sure I will have a few more questions from you guys that have MUCH more experience........THANKS for your help.......God bless......Dennis

 

[CR172]

Randy is correct in where the serial number is located. The photos do show you have a Horse tiller. The rear tine shield is different than what I am used to seeing, yours does not have the side shields protecting the tines and containing the soil as it gets tilled. The Kohler looks VERY familar to me, mine has one was bought in 1979, and you are correct in that the decals do not look like what I am used to seeing. Are you in the USA? or some other place that might have required different decals? I ask because of your use of the phrase "weighs a bloody ton", reflects a British/Canadian influence?

Yes, I'm in the US. Texas to be exact. The "bloody ton" statement just came out that way......

Anyway, I've looked at that area. It is clear of paint, and there aren't any numbers that can be seen, with the naked eye anyway. You did answer another question though. The tine shield does have a side shield on one side. Apparently the other side is missing. Guess it's time to fab a side shield and paint. This thing runs great. Starts on the first or 2nd pull. The tines appear to be in really good condition. Still 'blunt'. Haven't had a chance to get it in the dirt because of all the rain we've been getting. The reverse disc will need to be replaced as it makes quite a bit noise in reverse....

Thanks for the info.

 

[2manyrocks]

I think that the one belt -two belt thing has been discussed here in another thread before. Pictures are always good.

CR172's unit looks very similar to the one I bought in the early 1980's. The fact that the decals are still visible on the dirt shield suggests that this machine has been kept stored indoors. Mine used to have a paper label on the dirt shield with the SN, but came off years ago.

 

[DennisArrow]

I think that the one belt -two belt thing has been discussed here in another thread before. Pictures are always good.

Before I ask a question I do as much research, searching, that is feasible. In this case, several hours. I did not think it was rude nor ignorant to ask this question, nor to much to have it answered or at least to paste in the thread where the answer would be available.

I do not have a camera available to take a picture at this moment. I thought that a description of what I have, a 79 Horse, would be adequate for experienced folks that might know.

Two simple questions:

1. Does a B&S use 2 belts, or does it use a pulley system that is more or less stepped to control output speed of the shaft, fast and slow.

2. Does a 79 Horse have a Tines/PTO clutch lever to disengage or engage the PTO.

Thank you for your time and consideration........I find that my reply is perhaps rude, but actually I got offended and answered in kind. This is a far different reaction than I have become used to on this forum. Neighborly, kind, patient, and considerate....I don't just post questions/statements to increase my thread count.....Thanks for the help.......God bless.......Dennis

 

[CR172]

I was told by the previous owner it was kept in his barn. The labels are very legible. I'll try to post some more pics as we are snowed in today.... The previous pics were from the previous owner before we ventured aprox 100 miles to get it. All the used horses in this area were going for around 8 - 900 bucks. We picked this one up for 3....

Plus, the higher priced ones were the MTD models.... Kinda like when AMF had ahold of Harley..... not the same creature....

Off topic.... here's a pic of my other baby....

 

[2manyrocks]

I'm sorry. What I meant was I think someone asked the same question and got an answer about there being two belts on some models, but I can't remember exactly what they said. The models I've personally seen only have one belt, but I don't want to mislead you because I'm not quite sure what you have.

If your unit is like mine (which appears to be like CR172's), you have a high and low range lever on the side of the transmission housing, and you have a pulley that also has a high and low range, but you change the high and low ranges on the pulley by moving the single belt from one groove on the pulley to the other one. Instead of having a two speed transmission, this allows for four speeds not counting reverse.

On mine, there is a single lever in the middle underneath the handle bars to engage the tines and transmission.

I forget the exact time period, but for a while they were selling a different model that you could change implements on so you could convert it from a tiller to some other use. That model may have had different controls than mine. That's why I asked for a picture because I was wondering if you had one of those units. Over the years, I have seen several of the ones like I have, but I haven't seen any of the convertible units except for the sales brochures I used to get years ago from Garden Way.

Does yours look like the one that CR172 posted except you have a B & S instead of a Kohler engine? I think there were about 3 engine options on the Horse.

To make it more complicated, Troy Bilt also sold a number of smaller tillers that typically had B & S engines. I think they were called the Pony and the Junior plus some other models whose names I don't remember. As I recall, the Junior had a PTO/Forward engagement lever in the middle of the handlebars on the control panel. It had a different control arrangement than on the Horse model that CR172 posted. The Junior (if I remember right) had only a single speed transmission (no hi-lo lever), but had a dual pulley that would allow you to move the belt to allow a hi and low speed range.

 

[DennisArrow]

Thanks 2rocks......I really appreciate the time with your description. It seems that yours and mine are very much the same. The yellow label on the "tines cover" calls it a Garden Way Horse in big letters....Mine also has an electric start.......
I have not called MTD yet to see if a manual is available; but did download the oldest one on their websight. It is an old unit, cant figure out the year; but must be in the 80's or 90's because it has those government mandated lock out on the bars that you have to hold down in order to get it to run. The Horse in this manual has the interlock/clutch to disengage the PTO to the tiller or attachment that I refer to. Dont find the interlock on the bars nor the interlock/clutch on mine.......
In addition, the belt adjustment block there at the bottom of the tiller/wheels forward/reverse lever has holes that you insert a 5/16" rod into to adjust the belt.

I just scribed a line across the block to the bracket and used that for an adjustment guage. My belts needed adjusting as when going forward one had to hold the lever down to keep it engaged. Moved/tapped the block down maybe 3/16" and it works great.

Am totally blessed that I got this thing for $200 and all seems to be fine. Now to get all the years of crud off of it before I take it into my shop to check out the xmission and pto oil levels and such.........LOTS of crud built up around the wheel/axle so am a bit concerned that I will need, in time, to change out those seals. In the mean time will just make sure that I have oil, 85/140 GL3 compatible, in it as I use it. Cleaning it up witll allow me to do this easily........This thing is so very easy to work on; but am so very glad that there is little to do.........God is SO very good.............Thanks for the help and advice.......Dennis

 

[CR172]

Here are more pics of my 'horse'....... even though both the wheels and tines have a neutral, to make the wheels move, you have to engage the tines. No separate PTO lever....

labels Mine is 2 forward and 2 reverse, but don't have to change belt pulleys

2 belt setup

No numbers here

Appears there was a label here at one time

Engine numbers

 

[DennisArrow]

Not the lever on the right or left that indicates high and low speed; but with the second belt how do you change the "speed" to the second range?..........Dennis

 

[CR172]

Not the lever on the right or left that indicates high and low speed; but with the second belt how do you change the "speed" to the second range?..........Dennis

With this one, you use the lever on the right. Push it up for 'high' speed, down for low. It has a 2 speed transmission. Technically this is a 2 speed tiller. I'm no expert, but I would imagine they used the 2 belt setup on the earlier units to deliver more torque with less slipage to the tines.

And like you, I need to clean the crude of it and make sure everything is lubed and adjusted proper. But it does run and function now.

 

[2manyrocks]

I'm curious about that second belt myself.

I have a higher serial no. on my kohler engine than yours, CR 172, and yours has slightly different operating labels than mine. So I think you have an earlier model than mine.

Mine was shipped to me in July, 1982.

According to some of my papers, the tiller serial number for tillers shipped after July 5, 1971 is on a tab on the transmission case, right side above the wheel axle. For tillers shipped before that date, the serial number is stamped into the top left hand side of the motor mount (to me it's the part that houses the belt.)

My unit used to have a label with the tiller SN where the white residue of the tiller is in the attached photo. There was one big label for the operation of the controls that peeled off years ago.

The available engine options when I bought mine included a 6 hp Tecumseh, a 7 hp kohler, or 8 HP Briggs with or without electric start. There is a note that only tillers having tiller serial nos. 384172 and up made after March 6, 1979 can safely use 8 hp engines.

 

[2manyrocks]

Well, I looked in the parts book and it says that a pair of belts was used on two speed tillers serial nos. 2731 to 314150. "Earlier tillers used a single belt and pulley."

Then it says on an different page that single belt pulleys were used on four speed models I'm supposing after serial no. 314150.

 

[CR172]

Well Rocks,
You got my curiousity up, so I trampled thru the 8" of snow back to the shed......This is Texas dang it!!!! Anyway, looky what I found...

17566 This was one the left side of the motor mount btw...

So, what does the number mean?

 

[DennisArrow]

On the left hand side of the transmission, in the top right corner, is the following.

TH-1001-1

IE 2

3/12/79

These are not stamped as with a die but actually part of the casting of the transmission. Have NOT given the machine a thorough looking over but this is what is obvious. I think the serial number for the engine must be behind the gas tank as I can not find it anywhere. Will find this out in a few days when I get it in the shop and remove the tank to clean, repaint, and put on new hoses, filter, and petcock.............

Oh, by the way, do yours have a valve as part of the fitting for the gas line where it connects to the tank. There is just a very small finger type valve or at least what looks like a valve, but in turning it and pushing and pulling I get no results......?????????........

So ya'lls DO NOT have a disconnect for the PTO as mentioned on later models??????

Makes ya wonder about why the 2 belts other than for torque of smaller engines and 3 larger engines could handle a bit of slippage as one changed the pulley for low and high speed............

Thanks for your thoughts guys.........Dennis

 

[CR172]

On the left hand side of the transmission, in the top right corner, is the following.

TH-1001-1

IE 2

3/12/79

These are not stamped as with a die but actually part of the casting of the transmission. Have NOT given the machine a thorough looking over but this is what is obvious. I think the serial number for the engine must be behind the gas tank as I can not find it anywhere. Will find this out in a few days when I get it in the shop and remove the tank to clean, repaint, and put on new hoses, filter, and petcock.............

Oh, by the way, do yours have a valve as part of the fitting for the gas line where it connects to the tank. There is just a very small finger type valve or at least what looks like a valve, but in turning it and pushing and pulling I get no results......?????????........

So ya'lls DO NOT have a disconnect for the PTO as mentioned on later models??????

Makes ya wonder about why the 2 belts other than for torque of smaller engines and 3 larger engines could handle a bit of slippage as one changed the pulley for low and high speed............

Thanks for your thoughts guys.........Dennis

Dennis,
Mine does not have a disconnect for the PTO. I'm sure this was added on the later ones so you could transport it from barn to worksite w/o the tines turning.

Here is a link to a video. At ~3:30 into it, you'll see him engage the PTO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1nhv1Eoj5E&feature=related