MossRoad
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Outlets wired backwards
- Thread starter Tdog
- Start date
- Views: 13974
Highbeam
Super Member
I just wired 15 amp outlets into a 20 amp circuit. All inspected and approved. You need to realize that the CB protects the wire. The 15 amp outlet can only be used by a 15 amp device due to the plug configuration, so you won't be pulling 20 amps through the 15 amp outlet. The breaker protects the wire. You can put 10-15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit and overload the circuit. The outlet rating isn't an issue. If you put a 30 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit then the CB will pop. If you put a 15 amp outlet on a 30 amp circuit then you can still only get 15 amps out of it since the appliance will only pull 15.
The only time you would wire in 20 amp outlets is if you needed to run a 20 amp appliance, not many folks have these appliances with the single sideways plug prong.
Oh yeah, the CB protects the wire.
JB4310
Super Member
Ok I think I'm following you, you are talking about switching the neutral?
I did guess that back in post #17 when I corrected my dumb remark about the switch. (sorry to everyone)
But since this thread is the only game in town today, at least in this forum
Here's a little exerciseLets look at this picture from Egons link closely, you have to zoom it in to see better, I see 2 problems with it. well one item is just odd but the other is a problem that I was always told not to do. Not sure why it wrong or if it even is against any code, but as I remember, it's not supposed to be done..
Anybody want to guess...
JB.
JB4310
Super Member
OK, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I don't think this is correct, Hope I'm not putting my foot in my mouth again
But what if you plugged 2 1800 watt electric heaters in the two receptacles? that would exceed 15 amps I think. Also, what if you plugged a power strip or an extension cord with a 3 way splitter, and you plug a bunch of power tools into it? You could draw as many amps as the breaker would allow easily exceeding the outlets 15 amp rating.
The way I understand it the breaker protects the outlet as well as the wire. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.
JB
kenstrac
Platinum Member, RIP
BUT NOT YOUR OUTLET
This is up to your local inspector in a lot of area's #14 15 amp #12 20 amp wire all kitchen outlets should be #12 with a 20amp breaker and outlets or GFI.Also the stab in type 15 amp will not accept a 12 wire
Highbeam
Super Member
OK, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I don't think this is correct, Hope I'm not putting my foot in my mouth again
But what if you plugged 2 1800 watt electric heaters in the two receptacles? that would exceed 15 amps I think. Also, what if you plugged a power strip or an extension cord with a 3 way splitter, and you plug a bunch of power tools into it? You could draw as many amps as the breaker would allow easily exceeding the outlets 15 amp rating.
The way I understand it the breaker protects the outlet as well as the wire. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.
JB
I passed an inspection by the state and a pre inspection by a professional electrician. I'm not an electrician but specifically asked this question since I always wire with 12 gauge.
I see what you are saying, you can always suck more than 15 amps through a 15 amp outlet with the proper splitters and power strips. The outlet could be asked to pass more than 15 amps.
I think you folks are right. It is more logical to match the outlet rating to the CB rating.
Highbeam
Super Member
Agreed on the amps through wire. I have never used stab in outlets though, I hope to never use them. Rather than hooking each wire around a screw I have found commercial grade outlets that allow you to push the wire into an open hole in the back and then tighten down the screw to pinch it just like in a GFCI outlet. This style of outlet is much more foolproof than a screw/hook and a better contact than the push in.
kenstrac
Platinum Member, RIP
The problem I see with the code is if all the wires are 20 amp and the outlets in bedrooms, living rooms and other area's are 15amp outlets Johnny homeowner goes to HD and buys a window A/C that pull 13.5 amps plugs it in the 15 amp recpt.starting amps are 40.5 what do you think happens to that outlet after time? And in this day and age and the cheapness of product you will have problems.Give me a 20 year old outlet and it weighs 2x more than a new one.
Years ago I wrote to the NEC asking to change the rule for allowing a plug to be used as switch for a motor of 1/3 Hp or less, they never corresponded back to me and I guess its still there.
The reason I wanted to change it was they never limited the voltage to 120v,
we had conveyor lines in this food processing plant that got washed down every night employee came in and plugged motor in just over his head and the plug blew.
They got water in the motor and the voltage was 480v@ 20A his hands were burnt and he had eye injuries.
Years ago I wrote to the NEC asking to change the rule for allowing a plug to be used as switch for a motor of 1/3 Hp or less, they never corresponded back to me and I guess its still there.
The reason I wanted to change it was they never limited the voltage to 120v,
we had conveyor lines in this food processing plant that got washed down every night employee came in and plugged motor in just over his head and the plug blew.
They got water in the motor and the voltage was 480v@ 20A his hands were burnt and he had eye injuries.
aczlan
Good Morning
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Which picture?
If you are talking about the first one (http://images.doityourself.com/stry/2041.jpg) I was always taught to have power/neutral come into the box and go into a wirenut with one wire for each outlet, switch, etc that went in the box. We would also do the same for ground, but with a crimped connector rather than a wirenut.
AaroN Z
JB4310
Super Member
Yup that's what I was talking about, never use a device as a connector, the device being the receptacle.
They show the load of the light circuit coming off the bottom set of screws on the receptacle. I got chastised by electrician for trying that in my own house, don't know if it's code or just good practice, but he said not even for other "down line" outlets on the same circuit.
Those extra set of screws are for if you want to have 2 separate circuits on the one double outlet or have a switch controlling one of the 2 outlets, in which case you break off that metal bridge on each side between the two screws. It does seem like a convenient and space saving way to avoid splicing wires in the box, but apparently not good practice. The one exception is with GFI's those do have a load side for feeding and protecting other outlets.
The other thing I found odd in the picture is it shows a ground wire going to the light fixture, Since there is no way to tell what the fixture is made of, it's not a big deal. But it looks like a standard porcelain or plastic ceiling fixture, in which case it wouldn't have a ground.
LOL, Isn't there any real electricians on TBN to straighten us out before we hurt ourselves
How does the saying go, "it's like the dumb leading the blind" or vice versa
JB.