Engine Overhaul Kama 554

[MtnViewRanch]

I have to second that.

Rob,
I don't know how you do it. With fencing the garden, working on the drives, engine rebuild, two days a week down south, and everything else - where did you find the time to clean and organize the shop?

I'm starting to think that Rob is one of those lucky people that only need 3-4 hours of sleep and he's good to go. Man he gets a lot of stuff done, and he still has time to show and tell about it with us here at TBN.

Simply amazing, THANKS Rob, we all appreciate it.

 

[EddieWalker]

Rob,

I noticed some staining on the bottom of your wood, next to the roll up doors. I have something similar on my walls. I was making all sorts of plans to grind down my concrete, add weather stripping and even build a roof over the door to keep the water out.

A client had the same problem and asked me to fix it. I don't know why, but I got to searching online for ways to stop water from getting through garage doors. I found this Amazon.com: Sensible Solutions 3016 Storm Shield 16-Foot Garage Door Threshold: Home Improvement and really liked the reviews.

It came with a full tube of liquid nails to glue it down, but it's not called liquid nails on the tube. I cut it to fit, glued it down and then shut the door to hold it in place. The next day I bought a tube of brown silicone and built up the ends to form a dam of sorts, so water could only go back outside. I went pretty heavy with it, and still only used less then half the tube.

Shortly after doing that, we had a very strong storm come through that dumped several inches of rain. I went over there the next day to see how it worked, and was VERY IMPRESSED that thre was no sign of water in the garage.

I bought one for my shop and put it in the day it arrived. I did it the same way, and I've had the same results. It made a HUGE difference in water getting in under my roll up door.

Eddie

 

[dcyrilc]

Rob,

I noticed some staining on the bottom of your wood, next to the roll up doors. I have something similar on my walls. I was making all sorts of plans to grind down my concrete, add weather stripping and even build a roof over the door to keep the water out.

A client had the same problem and asked me to fix it. I don't know why, but I got to searching online for ways to stop water from getting through garage doors. I found this Amazon.com: Sensible Solutions 3016 Storm Shield 16-Foot Garage Door Threshold: Home Improvement and really liked the reviews.

It came with a full tube of liquid nails to glue it down, but it's not called liquid nails on the tube. I cut it to fit, glued it down and then shut the door to hold it in place. The next day I bought a tube of brown silicone and built up the ends to form a dam of sorts, so water could only go back outside. I went pretty heavy with it, and still only used less then half the tube.

Shortly after doing that, we had a very strong storm come through that dumped several inches of rain. I went over there the next day to see how it worked, and was VERY IMPRESSED that thre was no sign of water in the garage.

I bought one for my shop and put it in the day it arrived. I did it the same way, and I've had the same results. It made a HUGE difference in water getting in under my roll up door.

Eddie

It looks like his door needs to come down another 1/2" to an inch to be fully closed as well. Of course, it could be that he just didn't have it all the way closed too.

 

[3RRL]

Jim,
Those 2 items (I figure) will surely make life a little easier.
It was tough to lift the head off and on without dinging up the liner sleeve tops or the head gasket. You know I used the head and bolts to seat the sleeve liners, then took it off again. I'm getting a bit weak in my old age so this is the first step to using alternative lifting methods. In fact, I've been thinking about adding a lift of some kind to my log splitter for the same reason.

Holy mackerel, you guys have good eyes!
I did clean up the barn after the first rebuild and as usual, Loretta is behind all the organization and cleaning. My machine shop area is still a mess though. I've helped her set up a wood working area for her woodworking. She has her own wood lathe. The rest of the barn is split between the machine shop and automotive/tractor bay. Plus some storage for the ATV and golf cart. She is the one who had me hang up all my old golf bags and clubs since I rarely use them anymore.

Thanks for the link to that Garage Door threshold Eddie.
Both bay doors let water in. We were just talking about doing something about it too. (Another scary mind reading on your part). That threshold is something we will probably get.

Cyril is right, I didn't have the door locked all the way down.
But nevertheless, even when I do water still leaks in on each corner. We noticed that the wood rats like chewing the rubber strip on the door. They've chewed off about 6" length on one side of the door! What's up with that??

Brian,
I figured on you staying with us for the Ag Fair again.
Dave Krug just emailed me about the same thing. He might come up Monday evening and attend the fair for 1 or 2 days. I figure you'd be picking up your giant road grader this year. Loretta and I will most likely attend 1 day later in the week since I'm out of town until Tuesday evening.
You still have my email and phone number, right?

 

[ToadHill]

Regarding your question on balancing connecting rods, I have some experience. I built race engines for a lot of years. I always balanced each part seperately to within 1/10th of a gram ( I know it may be overkill). Weigh all the rods, caps, and I did each bolt and nut, mark the lightest and then how much each piece is over the lightest then slowly grind away material until all are within your specs.

You can do the same thing with the rod bolted together. I did it seperately for ease of replacements at the track if I needed to replace a rod bolt or a cap.

 

[3RRL]

So, any tricks to using the engine stand?
I've never used one. Do you mount the rear or front of the engine to the stand? I figure to mount the engine from the rear, but I might be mistaken.
-Can I take the entire engine out and do all the dis-assembly while on the stand?
-Or do I have to remove some components first?
It would sure be a lot easier wrenching on that stand than inside or underneath the hood area like I did before.
Any other tips?

Couple of other questions:
-Should I dis-assemble the head and valves again?
-They were fit/lapped good before.
-What about the liners when I take the pistons out.
-Do I need to re-hone them or anything?
-Can I change the oil and filter to new, like after the break-in period?
-Since I've ran it for about 3 hours now, perhaps 90% of the break-in shavings has already occurred?
-Or will there be wear/shavings from the new journal bearings and I'd need to change the oil again in 10 hours anyway?
-Note that the filter and oil in there right now is 3 hours old.

Yesterday I took off the FEL and the boxblade and parked the Kama in the barn.
Today I'll start draining the oil(s), fuel and water to get it ready for dis-assembly next week. If there are no other emergencies around the ranch, it should be dis-assembled, and waiting for the new components. I'd like to get the pistons and rods balanced too. Perhaps IH3444 will have time to instruct me better on that? I'll be sure to mic the new crank too. I was even thinking about indicating each bearing hole on the connecting rods for roundness. I'd like to set them up so there is like .001" to .0015" clearance max with the bearings in...or whatever the minimum clearance suggested in the manual. The new crank and other parts should arrive by the end of next week.

 

[3RRL]

Regarding your question on balancing connecting rods, I have some experience. I built race engines for a lot of years. I always balanced each part seperately to within 1/10th of a gram ( I know it may be overkill). Weigh all the rods, caps, and I did each bolt and nut, mark the lightest and then how much each piece is over the lightest then slowly grind away material until all are within your specs.

You can do the same thing with the rod bolted together. I did it seperately for ease of replacements at the track if I needed to replace a rod bolt or a cap.

Thanks TH,
Is there a specific place/area on the connecting rods to remove material?
I'd like to try this to get the engine to run as smooth as possible. Why not, right? Might as well do it along with everything else to make it run better. I figure I could weigh some chips (I have plenty lying around) to give me an idea of how much material to remove to make say, a 1/4, a 1/2 and 1 gram or so...just as a visual guideline. What kind of scale could I get? I need a new one for reloading anyway.

 

[dcyrilc]

Is there a link for information about this Ag Fair you guys keep talking about?

 

[dfkrug]

Is there a specific place/area on the connecting rods to remove material?
I'd like to try this to get the engine to run as smooth as possible.

It is not as simple as the pistons. A con rod's big end is subject to rotary
and linear motion, while the small end is linear only. So you can not just
staticly balance them. I have balanced pistons before, and sent out
cranks to be spun (dynamically balanced).

As for the engine stands, I use them often (I have 2, but have needed
3). For car or tractor engines, I mount to the flywheel side using existing
holes. I can rotate the block to work on it, which is a necessity. With other
engines, I end up making brackets, like my Honda CX500 2-cyl.

 

[EddieWalker]

So, any tricks to using the engine stand?
I've never used one. Do you mount the rear or front of the engine to the stand? I figure to mount the engine from the rear, but I might be mistaken.
-Can I take the entire engine out and do all the dis-assembly while on the stand?
-Or do I have to remove some components first?

A few things that work for me when using my engne stand.

With the engine still on the lift, but clear and free to work on, take off the flywheel and whatever is attached to it. Then the bell housing has to come off so that you have the back of the block all free and clear.

Then you'll need to figure out what bolts you need. The problem with the bolts is that you will need them to be long enough to go through the engine stand and into the block. I've seen them with different sized threads, so be sure to check all of your mounting points to get the right sized bolts. If you have to go to town to buy them, lower the engine to the ground. You don't have to take off 100% of the pressure ont the lift, but don't rely on it either. I just set the block down on the oil pan nice and easily until there's slack in the chain. Then I tighten it up again to make sure that the engine wont fall over.

When you have the right bolts, attach the part of the engine stand to the block without the base of it attached. Getting it all lined up and tight is the trick. Then when it's all tight, slide the base onto the bracket while it's still up in the air. This way, you'll have all ove it floating, which makes it real easy. Then slowly lower the entire thing to the ground. Line up the wheels and make sure to do this slowly.

After you take off the lift, you'll find that it's a bit springy, but solid enough for working on.

Spinning the engine is easier said then done. Usually I have to use a pry bar or breaker bar in the stand to get it to turn. Then make sure to go real slow so it doesnt' get away from you. There is a point where it will feel like it wants to flip onto it's side, and then you'll be all the way over. If you are watching for it, and being careful, you wont have any problems.

Eddie

 

[Diamondpilot]

Rob, get a cat for the rats and mice. I hated cats until 2 years ago when I let my little girl bring home 2 barn cats that were 6 weeks old. They catch and eat some type of a critter every day. Cost me all of $15 for a kitty door(like a doggy door) and about $10 in food each month.

Chris

 

[ToadHill]

If you are going to balance the rods with the cap bolted to it, I'd start by removing all the forging scrap from the rod beams and the same from the cap. If you still need to remove more, I'd take it from the beam of the rods, equally off each side. If the forging is any good, you can usually get them in balance without having to take much off.

 

[IH3444]

Hello Rob, and good thinking with your purchases. I have both also, plus one very heavy duty stand, and a lighter duty stand for smaller engines up to 4 cylinders. Also a small workbench mount stand. All come in handy, even for other duties such as transmissions, odd shapped things you can bolt to them for working on at a comfortable level.

Rod balancing. My engine machinist buddy has one of them there new fangled rod balancers. I'm going to post a few links for you to read and digest. Toadhill may chime in and add a few more tidbits. I got smarter after doing the Porsche engine, and now make every thing weight the same. You can sometimes bring assemblies into balance just by swapping wrist pins. I understand completely if you are uncomfortable with that. Keeping all parts mated to the components as they came out of the engine is fine. I would just besure that all assemblies weight within 1 gram of each other as a minimum standard. Exact if you are willing to invest the time. I must warn you that a lot of time will be spent making it exact. I do such things as make one file stroke, and then reweight piece.

Here is some good reading Rob.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance

Good Video on rod balancing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpiF0E0EJU

http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/RodBalance.html

Connecting Rod Balancing Page 2

The Rotating Assembly - Engine Masters Magazine

Eaton Balancing Engine Balancing, Part 4

And for those who love math:
Connecting rod balance in Continental and Lycoming Aircraft engine

 

[SPIKER]

If you are going to balance the rods with the cap bolted to it, I'd start by removing all the forging scrap from the rod beams and the same from the cap. If you still need to remove more, I'd take it from the beam of the rods, equally off each side. If the forging is any good, you can usually get them in balance without having to take much off.

first off knock off any ratty loose flashing hunks that looks like it might break off someday...

for the rod balance, you need to balance it in 3 parts overall weight and big end and little end. there are methods of doing this but easiest is to use a fixed height bolt to balance one end on and weigh the other end through the rod opening. you need to weigh each and every one first and record the weights. on all 3 points (overall, big end little end) then find the lightest weight and lightest end of that and start making them all the same.

you should have a flexible sanding tool preferable one of those spring loaded 1" wide band/belt type sanders. HF has them for 30 or so bucks usually.

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa...o?itemid=34951&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=

these will work great. the rods should have a fat flat area on top and bottom that are sued for the balancing purpose. sand/grind very little off at a time, and keep them cool when going through the process. check them often...
I think HF had these for 9 bucks this week?
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa...do?search.keyword=pocket+scale&submit=find+it

(the one above is kind of low in weight) try this one maybe more though
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa...o?itemid=97920&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=


anyhow same goes for pistons ect. there are some flat heavy spots that you can clear off a small amount of material from them to get them close enough on the inside tops usually.

Mark M

 

[SPYDERLK]

Rob, I see you are going whole hog on this, and that is safe - but perhaps all unecessary. Your oil pressure subsidence is not all that bad, but is a worry because you dont know what its coming from. If it is wear in the oil pump, that needs correction. The relief valve adjustments are not appropriate because the oil pump is not in relief when the engine is warm/hot. Then, all of its flow should be going to the bearings if the manufacturer has sized the pump capacity and bearing clearances synergetically. You want good flow thru the bearings to take away the heat inherent in the hydrodynamic shearing. The key unknown I see pertaining to your engines present health is whether the oil is flowing proportionally well to all the bearings, or whether you have some high clearance leakers. You have enuf oil pressure in the former case, but if the latter exists then the leakers are getting far more than their share and the tighter ones are being starved and running hot. ?? ... but If not too bad a descrepancy it will be able self correct benignly as these wear a little so they will let more oil flow thru them.

The fact that you had a knock in the 1st place is worrisome. That essentially says that particular bearing did not get proper oil. So where was the oil going? ..to the other crank bearings and the cam bearings. Suppose the cam bearings are worn and taking more than their share of the flow. Your crank and cylinder bores will suffer, and the journals with the tightest clearances will suffer most [along with their associated cylinders]. When youre in there take a look at those cam bearings.

Balancing rods will be easy for someone of your eminent qualifications. In order to account for the reciprocating and rotational components the rods have to weigh the same and have the same end to end balance. To do this you need to make a fixture journal to slip fit into the assembled big end. Thru the center you put a dowel pin extending out each side. You then weigh all the rods normally, and then find the effective portion on the big end by orienting the rod horizontal with the small end suspended off scale by a vertical thread. On scale the fixtured big end sits on //s on the thru pin. Take weight off strategically until all have equal respective weights. I prefer to "polish" the weight off using a Scotchbrite type of soft cushioned abrasive wheel. Done with care this blends sharp edges while removing the metal, leaving a more durable form. Then get all the pistons the same weight too. ... I really dont think all that is worthwhile in a tractor engine you know... but you might have fun doing it.
larry

 

[3RRL]

You guys are awesome!
Thanks for tips using the engine stand.
Especially about bolting the base of the engine stand to the motor first and then putting that into the base. It took me a little while to get through all the connecting rod instructional links, but I pretty much understand now. I'll have to buy the 1000 gram scale and make a fixture for the connecting rods.

Question about the connecting rod fixture...
Is it desirable to have the center lines of the big and small ends the same height? Or is the idea to have the rod sit parallel to the ground. In that case, the centers of the big and small ends are not necessarily the height, right?
I noticed all the fixtures in the examples had the same chain set up for the big end. I looked to me that one of the fixtures used a different locating device on the big end rather than a spud with a dowel through the center. Ultimately, it achieves the same thing as long as each rod end locates in the exact same place.

Many thanks to all for taking the time to share all this information with me.

I started draining the fluids out of the tractor this afternoon.
Then I got as far as removing/disconnecting a bunch of electrical and hydraulic lines, the battery, and finally the air filter and radiator.



Next week I'll be taking it apart further.
Taking all the geared and timed stuff off the front of the engine will be new to me. I suppose I will mark the mating gears tooth for tooth how it sat together before removing them completely. I'm not so much worried about the rear of the engine, because I had it split to replace a throw out bearing and set the clutch pack.

 

[SPIKER]

Rob, I see you are going whole hog on this, and that is safe - but perhaps all unecessary. Your oil pressure subsidence is not all that bad, but is a worry because you dont know what its coming from. If it is wear in the oil pump, that needs correction. The relief valve adjustments are not appropriate because the oil pump is not in relief when the engine is warm/hot. Then, all of its flow should be going to the bearings if the manufacturer has sized the pump capacity and bearing clearances synergetically. You want good flow thru the bearings to take away the heat inherent in the hydrodynamic shearing. The key unknown I see pertaining to your engines present health is whether the oil is flowing proportionally well to all the bearings, or whether you have some high clearance leakers. You have enuf oil pressure in the former case, but if the latter exists then the leakers are getting far more than their share and the tighter ones are being starved and running
larry

I agree with this statement that the un-even flow may be the only real issue you have at this point. I am not sure if there is a real way to TEST this to make sure that the flow is going where it should be going. I could imagine that you should be able to test this flow somehow but not sure how. Maybe open the pan up and put a hose into the pump pressure port to pressurize the system and visually look at the flow form each bearing as best as you can to see if the flows seem to be similar to to getr a real accurate flow through each bearing into a catch .pan and pour into a container test flow for one min.

At this point though if you are going to go through the expense of buying new crank and all that then you might as well run the machine until the parts arrive.
The Heads should be fine same with Pistons & liners that were just all new and just started to get broken in. The oil is a minor cost compared to the other parts so I would not worry much about that minor cost. The break in lube / assembly lube will already be off the parts and into the oil... replace it when you get the new parts and tear it open again.

THE OIL PRESSURE IS STILL NOT ALL THAT BAD, 7~10 PSI per 1000 rpms rule of thumb remember.


When/if you balance the rods remember to keep them parallel to the ground with one end on a fixed pin (or suspended with a string) and other end on the scale level...

Mark M

 

[dcyrilc]

Next week I'll be taking it apart further.
Taking all the geared and timed stuff off the front of the engine will be new to me. I suppose I will mark the mating gears tooth for tooth how it sat together before removing them completely. I'm not so much worried about the rear of the engine, because I had it split to replace a throw out bearing and set the clutch pack.

If you are not familiar with the injector pump timing, check with Dave and the others before you disassemble anything associated with it. I know that there are alignments that should be checked and recorded so that it can be put back together properly. Or so I have gathered from reading other posts. Worth checking first.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Question about the connecting rod fixture...
Is it desirable Yes! to have the center lines of the big and small ends the same height? Or is the idea to have the rod sit parallel to the ground. In that case, the centers of the big and small ends are not necessarily the height, right?

Since all pivot actions of the rod are around the 2 centers it is these centers that should be at the same height. Do you have access to 3beam balance? I find them much more confidence inspiring than a digital.
larry

 

[3RRL]

Mark,
Checking the oil flow is a good idea.
I'll figure out some way to at least "see" the flow to the bearings and cam, etc. But I don't think there is a problem there...at least I'm hoping. When I had it apart last time, the other bearings and components all looked clean and new ... no scoring or residue from burnt oil. Plus, I had excellent oil pressure before. I still have good pressure even now except after it warms up and the oil thins. I'm leaning towards that one scored rod journal that was scored. My money is on that one was losing oil pressure through the bit of scoring. Even though I thoroughly polished it to make it smooth, the scoring was still visible. I could feel it with my fingernail. So I suspect that's where the oil flow wants to get out. Nevertheless, I will check the oil passages and flow like you said.

As you can see by the last photos I posted, I've already started the dis-assembly process. I'll be out of town until Wednesday, so I won't be running the tractor anyway. We have the Jinma to do odds and ends. I just smoothed out our 1/2 mile long dirt driveway with it. Took a couple more passes than the Kama, but it's quite capable except smaller in size and capacity.

Cyril,
I have read several threads about the injector pump timing and also talked to Chip about it. He said as long as I mark (exactly) how it was assembled before, where the gears line up, and if I put it back together the exact same way, I should have no problems. So that's what I plan to do.

Larry,
I don't have a balance beam scale.
I was planning on buying a decent digital scale. I will make the rod weighing fixture to have the centers parallel. I'll take photos of it when done. I also have several metal removal tools. A belt sander, 12" disc sander and several bench grinders. Plus the machine shop, but from what I saw in those videos and photos, the grinders will do.

See you guys next week!