engine with bearing failure

3011 · Dec 10, 2009

Hello,
I registered just now in this forum. On a search for zetor fans/owners i encountered this forum.

I recently purchased a zetor 3011 with that engine problem. I am in process to repair it. It's already a part. I have no Owners manual nor parts list for that tractor.
For that reason i am looking for a list of
bolt torques and other technical details.
Perhaps someone can help me.

Regards
Tony

Reg · Dec 11, 2009

3011 said:
Hello,
I registered just now in this forum. On a search for zetor fans/owners i encountered this forum.
I recently purchased a zetor 3011 with that engine problem. I am in process to repair it. It's already a part. I have no Owners manual nor parts list for that tractor.
For that reason i am looking for a list of
bolt torques and other technical details.
Perhaps someone can help me.

Regards
Tony

I would just use a standard bolt torque table.
If you don't have one it should be possible to find quickly on the web.
There is a cylinder head bolt tightening sequence that I reproduced here a while ago, but I don't know if the 3011 has same/similar engine to that.

This thread;
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/zetor-century-branson/104806-century-2035-manuals-2.html
might help, I had forgotten that the torque figures were quoted there.

I have shop manuals for Kukje built tractors, but they are in storage at this time.

Reg · Dec 11, 2009

BTW, try asking for help here too;
Zetorworld forum
There are a few threads on the 3011.

I think Renze will welcome you (-:

3011 · Dec 13, 2009

Hi Reg,
thanks for your advice.

3011 · Dec 17, 2009

all,
a short up Date overhauling my Zetor engine.
I have put the crankshaft to the maschine shop yesterday for grinding.
But got bad news, one bearing pin is so badly damaged they can not grind it anymore.

So i am looking for a used or new crankshaft and a con rod as well.

Reg,
I placed a post at zetorworld too, but no response until now.

ZetorShaun · Dec 17, 2009

That is a nice tractor, you are lucky. Nice work on the rebuild. Renze will eventually respond. He can probably locate the crank shaft as well. He is not too far from you, Netherlands or Belgium I think.

SimS · Dec 17, 2009

3011;

I hope you can find the parts you need. That crank journal may be repairable by welding and regrinding. Can't say much about the rod though. Good luck.

SimS

Zork · Dec 23, 2009

What does the cyl wall look like from that scored piston? What does the rod and cap look like? Was there still a bearing in the rod assembly? That journal does not look as bad as your piston, and if all else fails try to clean it up and check to see if the bearing clearance is within tolerance. Its OK to laugh, because I did. I have put one four cyl truck engine together (at the request of the customer) with two journals that were worse than yours. I cleaned them very well with fine paper, plasti-gaged the rod bearings, and torqued it down. The engine was so tight that the starter would not turn it, but we started the engine by towing it down the road an popping the clutch. After running the engine for several hours at an idle, we shut her off and it started with the starter. We changed the oil again and, laughing, said "good-bye" with no guarantee's to the customer. I didn't believe it when the customer drove in 5k miles later for an oil change. If you cannot find a new crankshaft, try it, short of a short/long block, you have nothing to loose.

3011 · Dec 24, 2009

Hi fjp2,
the cylinder wall isn't really bad. They are even exchangeable. But the pistons come in sets together with piston pin and cylinder sleeve. No big difference in price. So i going to buy it complete.
The bigger problem is the crankshaft.
There was no bearing /shelf in the rod anymore. The previous Owner took it out. The journal of the crankshaft is oval grinded and there is about 1,8 millimeter metal from the journal shaved away the guy at the mashine shop said. There are no bearing shelf on the market who can equalize the difference.
I got a address from a parts dealer in the Czech Republic from where i will get a quote for most of the parts after new Year.

well i wish you and everybody
Merry Christmas and happy new Year

IH3444 · Dec 25, 2009

3011, the bad connecting rod bearing journal can be welded up, and then reground back to stock specifications. You need to find a shop with a stellar reputation for this type of work. You may find a useable crankshaft before you need this fall back position. Good Luck!

http://www.crankshaftco.com/crankshaft-welding.html

Renze · Dec 25, 2009

IH3444 said:
3011, the bad connecting rod bearing journal can be welded up, and then reground back to stock specifications. You need to find a shop with a stellar reputation for this type of work. You may find a useable crankshaft before you need this fall back position. Good Luck!

Crankshaft Company - Crankshaft Welding

There are so many of these tractors still in service, that they still sell all new parts, for prices for which you cant have some specialty machine shop tinker with worn trash.... If you know where to buy

The only parts you cant get are mudguards, they scrapped the press moulds in the 70's because HMT of India didnt buy them with the rest of the production tooling, because the Indians made cheaper, less stylish ones instead... I want to investigate if its possible to have someone make them from glassfiber reinforced plastic, using a pair of original mudguards in mint condition, as moulds.

IH3444 · Dec 25, 2009

Find him a crankshaft then if they are so plentyful.

Reg · Dec 25, 2009

IH3444 said:
3011, the bad connecting rod bearing journal can be welded up, and then reground back to stock specifications. You need to find a shop with a stellar reputation for this type of work. You may find a useable crankshaft before you need this fall back position. Good Luck!

Crankshaft Company - Crankshaft Welding

That may be a bit far to send it (-:
Know anywhere in Bavaria that does same/similar service ?

{Location, location, loc...}

IH3444 · Dec 26, 2009

Renze seems to think that these crankshafts are a Euro a dozen. Maybe he will chime in as to where the Zetor crankshaft tree is growing in Europe.

I posted the link just to show you that as a last resort crankshafts can be repaired, and returned to service if no other solution is availabe.

There are shops in Europe I'm sure when if you have to resort to this repair, then a shop close by is there. Just google it for Europe.

Good Luck, and maybe Renze will find you one.

3011 · Dec 27, 2009

Hi IH3444,
thanks for your help.
But quite honestly i have never heart befor about crankshaft welding!
But even when there is a company in germany doing that busines it would be the last i would do as long as i can buy a new one. Even when a new one is pricey.
I mean if there is no other possibility i would go that way not doubt about it.

Renze already named a few Addresses where i can buy parts. Hopefully for reasonable money.
I was also google at the web before and i found companys in India. The have no online shop, therefore i am looking for a easyier way before.
I also found the Beno comp. at the WWW net before. But their Internet presence looked to me they mostly selling tools and other shop stuff.
Like i said Renze named a Guy with i already communicate.
Once i have a parts list i will send him the codes /No. and then we will see how it works.

Renze,
there is another Company in Poland named Tramat. They also sale zetor parts.
Have you been dealing with?
BTW are BENO's parts from India?

Renze · Dec 27, 2009

3011 said:
Renze,
there is another Company in Poland named Tramat. They also sale zetor parts.
Have you been dealing with?
BTW are BENO's parts from India?

I have had contact with Tramat, but before i put in my first order, i saw an advertising in a national farm magazine that warned not to pay before you had received the parts. When i mentioned this on my website, a few months later they responded to it, said that this ad was placed by an ex employer of them and asked me to remove all references to it. When i gave them notice that i only quoted the advertisement, which wasnt put up by me, so i saw no reason to remove the posts concerning their company. Next thing was that they threatened me with lawyers...???

Now i just dont have trust in lawyers, nor anyone who is keen on hiring them.. They might perhaps be a very sound business, but so far, the odds are against them.
Because i dont want to pick a side in shady games between companies and their former relations, I have removed all references (either good or bad) to that company from the forum and banned them.

About Beno's parts, most of what i received in the past 1.5 years comes directly from Zetors OEM subcontractors (PAL, Fragokov, AGS) so it doesnt have a Zetor PDC print on the box. Only stuff manufactured by Zetor itself are packed in Zetor package.
Apart from some metallurgy, hardly anything is changed to the running gear in this engine in 40 years. (bigger bore, better bearings, tougher alloy used for the crank) I have never gotten any parts that were identifiable as HMT, and i think these products are all made by automated machinery with little manual labor, so they cant make and ship them overseas, cheaper than what the Czechs can make them for anyways. Short said, i have no reason to believe they sell Indian parts, and from an economical point of view, its unlikely too. When Zetor was close to bankruptcy in 2001, some bidders wanted the parts division only because there is steady money in it.

You can also get a used one from the Rietman brothers, they are Hollands leading Zetor dealer and have a barn full of parts wreckers. I spotted several 3 cylinder engines there.

IH3444 · Dec 27, 2009

I much rather you did find a usable crankshaft, or a new one. As mentioned, crankshaft welding up is a last resort, and must be done to the highest standards. It is almost never as good as a new crank, or even a good used one.

Thanks Renze for helping out with leads for new cranks....

3011 · Dec 27, 2009

Hi Renze,
thanks a lot spending your time for assistance.

Renze said:
Now i just dont have trust in lawyers, nor anyone who is keen on hiring them.. They might perhaps be a very sound business, but so far, the odds are against them.

I am with you

About Beno's parts, most of what i received in the past 1.5 years comes directly from Zetors OEM subcontractors (PAL, Fragokov, AGS) so it doesnt have a Zetor PDC print on the box. Only stuff manufactured by Zetor itself are packed in Zetor package....

Well that sounds good to me.
I am looking forward to get the parts list from Lukas asap.
I will decide where i order after i get a quote about the hole package of spare parts i needed.

You can also get a used one from the Rietman brothers, they are Hollands leading Zetor dealer and have a barn full of parts wreckers. I spotted several 3 cylinder engines there.

Cold you give me the address of Rietmann Brothers, just in case.

Did i mention my Dad had a 3011 in the sixtees as a brand new one. And we also had a Zetor 25K. It was traded in for the 3011

The 25K was only used for mowing golf course fairways.

It was almost new.
My Dad got them from a neighbor for a few hundred German Marks.

Unfortunately i have no pictures of them.

3011 · Dec 27, 2009

HI IH3444,
thanks for your support.

IH3444 said:
I much rather you did find a usable crankshaft, or a new one. As mentioned, crankshaft welding up is a last resort, and must be done to the highest standards. It is almost never as good as a new crank, or even a good used one.

Yeah, i agree with you.
I keep you informed what's going on.