Grapple Grapple Rake prices

[Ken45101]

With the incompetence shown at that shop, I'd just get my money back and find a place that has a better chance of following directions. Maybe your tractor store can do it or recommend a competent shop.

Ken

 

[IslandTractor]

I think you need the shop to make things right. I wouldn't have them redo the hoses but they should certainly credit you for the extra cost (probably just the hose size) but also make them exchange whatever fittings don't fit. Markham tends to supply flat type skid steer unless you tell them otherwise. I'm not familiar enough with the Pioneer manufacturers to know what the fittings you have are but the basic CUT hydraulic fitting (same as on your FEL fittings and rear remote) is almost always a Pioneer style male or female half inch size and should be easy to match. Typically the rear remotes are two female fittings so you'd need two Pioneer males for that end. The front end will depend on what Markham supplied but if they did not supply standard Pioneer type then I'd suggest you pay the ten or fifteen bucks extra to have those switched out and then have the matching fittings on your remote hose. You don't want multiple styles of fittings if you can help it.

No worries about sealing hoses when you are changing fittings. You'll lose a little fluid but it doesn't matter as it will just refill from the reservoir when you activate the circuit. You might check your reservoir once you have everything up and running and maybe you will need to add a pint or two of HST fluid but it is no biggie.

Just grab a roll of teflon tape for under a buck at Home Depot or someplace like that to use when you reattach the Pioneer fittings to the grapple or remote hose. It only takes a couple of wraps and the only thing you want to make sure of is that you don't get the tape too close to the tip. Use a couple of wrenches to make the fittings tight. Pioneer type fittings can be tightened down hard but you don't need anything more than arm power and a couple of wrenches.

Don't feel bad about these hassles. Nearly everyone who does hydraulics themselves for the first time has exactly the same questions and trepidation about moving forward. I certainly did. It all disappears when you see that grapple arm move for the first time.

 

[Maknwine]

The rear remote hookups they supplied are Pioneer, I brought an example in to show them and they nailed it on those. I had some extras from a log splitter and post driver laying around.

I should have removed the Parker style they supplied and switched over to Pioneer. I'm sure that would have been tons cheaper.

 

[IslandTractor]

The rear remote hookups they supplied are Pioneer, I brought an example in to show them and they nailed it on those. I had some extras from a log splitter and post driver laying around.

I should have removed the Parker style they supplied and switched over to Pioneer. I'm sure that would have been tons cheaper.

The Pioneer quick connects are not terribly expensive as I recall. Maybe 8-10 bucks each at retail, less if you buy via internet.

 

[Maknwine]

Went back to the shop yesterday. They actually made good on supplying the wrong Parker fittings for me and I made mention that 1/4" was the size hose I needed. No problem they fixed me right and I even exchanged the wrong Parker fittings for Pioneer quick connects. My faith in them was restored.

Got a moment tonight to hook up and wouldn't you know it...the fittings that are swivel 90 degree elbows leak. Doesn't look like it is the Pioneer fittings that leak out back. Moving the valve actually made hydro oil splatter my truck door 4 feet away. Tks

I hate to go back but dont have a choice.

 

[IslandTractor]

Went back to the shop yesterday. They actually made good on supplying the wrong Parker fittings for me and I made mention that 1/4" was the size hose I needed. No problem they fixed me right and I even exchanged the wrong Parker fittings for Pioneer quick connects. My faith in them was restored.

Got a moment tonight to hook up and wouldn't you know it...the fittings that are swivel 90 degree elbows leak. Doesn't look like it is the Pioneer fittings that leak out back. Moving the valve actually made hydro oil splatter my truck door 4 feet away. Tks

I hate to go back but dont have a choice.

I've never used swivel fittings. They make 90 degree fittings that are solid which might be a better solution if the shop has them. Don't try to tighten things yourself if you are unfamiliar with JIC fittings. It is easy to overtighten and destroy them. Hand (wrist) tension is all you need and if you put muscle into it you can crack the seal seat. I wonder if that is what the shop did.

 

[Maknwine]

Ok, got off work early yesterday due to the storm and went to the barn to look at the fittings since I still had some light out.
Looked at the fittings at the back of the tractor and found that the fitting from the crimped 90 elbow going into the female/male threaded coupling was never tightened(that's why I thought it was a swivel fitting b/c the 90 elbow was "swiveling". Tightened it up and whalla...now have grapple action. Hope to try it out this weekend. Tks for the support so far fellas.

Tom

 

[IslandTractor]

Pictures. We like pictures.

 

[Maknwine]

Will do on the pics.

Would like to know how people that ran hydraulic lines from the back mounted a bracket at the front on the loader to connect there lines. I'm going to put some plate across two tabs on mine that are tapped into the FEL cross piece that holds the solid lines. On the plate I'll weld some angle with holes for lines to feed thru.

Pics will come.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you will be using rear remotes to run the grapple then you'll need two hoses of 3/8 or even as little as 1/4 with appropriate adapters to fit your rear remote outlets and long enough to go under the tractor, up the FEL post, along the FEL arm and terminate at the bracket you are building on the FEL torque tube (cross piece). Obviously you'll also need the hoses from the grapple arm cylinder to come back to the FEL mounted bracket. Again, 1/4 inch lines are fine though some use 3/8.

To measure the length of hose needed from the rear remotes to the FEL bracket I suggest using an old hose and literally "install" it so you can judge how much extra to leave for bends (especially at the bottom of the FEL post where the hoses will need to turn 90 degrees from under the operator station. Don't make the bends to sharp but route it and secure it so that it won't be snagged by brush. I used zip ties to hold the hoses tight to the underside of the operator station. I should have mentioned that it is nice to get 90 degree fitting adapters installed at the back so the hoses fit flush against the back of the tractor and that you don't need to have a big loop of hose sticking out the back before it travels over the left rear axle and under the operator station.

I found the process of measuring and figuring out how to secure hoses to be much easier once I had "installed" a garden hose in exactly the route I intended to use.

Be careful to determine exactly the right type of fittings. The tractor rear remotes will almost certainly be 1/2 inch Pioneer style female so you'll need male fittings for both rear connections. If you are using 1/4 inch hose you'll need the appropriate adapters to go up to the 1/2 inch fittings. At the grapple end you'll need to determine whether you have SAE or JIC connections to the hydraulic cylinder and get the hoses made up appropriately. You have your choice of what fittings you want to use for the connections at the FEL bracket but I'd suggest sticking with Pioneer quick connect style in either 1/4 or 3/8.

You can get all this stuff from internet discount suppliers and that is definitely the cheapest way to go (you'll save at least half). However, and this is a big however, it is very easy to get confused with what types of fittings etc if you haven't done it before. It might be a good investment to work with a local shop that can make sure everything is compatable. Again, the main thing they need to know are the lengths and the exact type of fittings on the hydraulic cylinder. I'm pretty sure you have 1/2 inch female Pioneer quick connects on your rear remote as that is industry standard.

There are lots of guys that have done this so just ask questions if you are unclear.

 

[Ken45101]

You can get all this stuff from internet discount suppliers and that is definitely the cheapest way to go (you'll save at least half). However, and this is a big however, it is very easy to get confused with what types of fittings etc if you haven't done it before. It might be a good investment to work with a local shop that can make sure everything is compatable.

If you go to a local supplier, it is:

1) easy to take in the connections you need to couple to

2) easy to take it back if they make a mistake.

For me (if I can find a local shop), it's probably worth doing local.

An inbetween alternative would be to have the your tractor supplier make up the hoses for you. They should know what's on your tractor and hopefully the grapple supplier can tell you what connectors they shipped.

Ken

 

[wedge40]

maknwine?
I tried to find specs on your tractor? How big is it, HP and weight. Rear ballast will be a must or loaded tires. How much does that 66" grapple weigh?

What some people do when they run lines from the back to the front is run the lines to a bulkhead connection that is mounted on the FEL someplace. This keeps things neat and makes it easier to hook up and remove.

Wedge

 

[Maknwine]

Hey, we already went thru all the line sizes, connections, I even got the 90 b/c I.T. recommended it, etc., etc....remember all the trouble I had with the hose shop. Sorry you had to do all that typing Island Tractor.

Anyway, I just want to see the "bulkhead" connection at the front of the loader.

Wedge, its a T2410, 55 HP, rears are loaded, and bare tractor weight is 3408 lbs.

I've used the grapple to pop out some choke cherry trees and it worked good. I can see that a lighter one would do just as good and not be so heavy. I may end up trying to sell it and get a 48". Although, the manual for the tractor suggest a 66" is doable...it recommends 60",66", or 72". Although, it doesn't have a recommended weight so sizes given is probably not the most important factor to consider. I may advertise it locally on CL and see what happens.

I'm going to search on bulkhead and see what I get. Tks
Tom

 

[IslandTractor]

Sorry, I forgot it was the same thread on line sizes etc.

I have long advocated for 48 inch light duty grapples for just about any CUT up to 50hp. To my knowledge no one has ever complained that they wish they'd gotten a bigger one and quite a few with bigger grapples have wished they had a lighter and narrower one. The 48 inch grapples are easily tough enough to deal with CUTs. I might not want something that light on a skidsteer but that as they say is a different kettle of fish.

Photo of a granite rock that a light duty grapple on my Kioti DK40se/KL401 not only lifted but actually tore out of the ground where it was buried except for about six inches. I did not know it was this big but wanted it out as I kept hitting it with my mower. Latched on, wiggled it a bit and then curled/lifted it out. Grapple did just fine.

 

[wedge40]

Hey, we already went thru all the line sizes, connections, I even got the 90 b/c I.T. recommended it, etc., etc....remember all the trouble I had with the hose shop. Sorry you had to do all that typing Island Tractor.

Anyway, I just want to see the "bulkhead" connection at the front of the loader.

Wedge, its a T2410, 55 HP, rears are loaded, and bare tractor weight is 3408 lbs.

I've used the grapple to pop out some choke cherry trees and it worked good. I can see that a lighter one would do just as good and not be so heavy. I may end up trying to sell it and get a 48". Although, the manual for the tractor suggest a 66" is doable...it recommends 60",66", or 72". Although, it doesn't have a recommended weight so sizes given is probably not the most important factor to consider. I may advertise it locally on CL and see what happens.

I'm going to search on bulkhead and see what I get. Tks
Tom

This place is a gold mine of info.. Sometime you have search and read through a lot to find exactly what you're looking for. But in the process you often learn about many new things.

I thought your tractor was in that HP range. I have an old 67' Ford 4000, new it's about 50hp, but since mine needs some TLC I'm guessing I have about 35-40 man. I got the 48" from Markham. As a matter of fact I was one of the first to get their small grapple designs. My lower tines dont have "teeth" but I dont think that makes much difference. Islandtractor has some great ideas about grapple sizing that I thought were very logical. So I went with the 48". I'm currently running my hydraulic lines from the back to front and just bungy cording everything in place. I have the bulkhead connectors and bracket. I just need to drill and tap the holes in the FEL to mount the bracket
I will search of the bulkhead links I used as an example and try to post them here.
Here is a thread that I found interesting. Very basic designs.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/107081-grapple-hoses.html

Wedge

 

[Maknwine]

Tks for posting Wedge, I stayed up till about 0100 hrs last night/this a.m. searching and saw that same thread you linked up.

I guess it just depends on what you have as far as places to mount on the FEL. If I can find my digital camera cord I'll post up some pics of where I want to mount it.

Tks I'll keep searching.

 

[dcyrilc]

Sorry, I forgot it was the same thread on line sizes etc.

I have long advocated for 48 inch light duty grapples for just about any CUT up to 50hp. To my knowledge no one has ever complained that they wish they'd gotten a bigger one and quite a few with bigger grapples have wished they had a lighter and narrower one. The 48 inch grapples are easily tough enough to deal with CUTs. I might not want something that light on a skidsteer but that as they say is a different kettle of fish.

Photo of a granite rock that a light duty grapple on my Kioti DK40se/KL401 not only lifted but actually tore out of the ground where it was buried except for about six inches. I did not know it was this big but wanted it out as I kept hitting it with my mower. Latched on, wiggled it a bit and then curled/lifted it out. Grapple did just fine.

WOW! I like landscape rocks. Could you deliver that to my place? LOL

 

[dcyrilc]

One thing I haven't figured out, is why not use the lines already feeding the FEL and just add another valve with QDs?

 

[IslandTractor]

One thing I haven't figured out, is why not use the lines already feeding the FEL and just add another valve with QDs?

Diverter valves or electric over hydraulic valves using the existing FEL circuits are quite popular. They cost a lot more than using rear remotes but have other advantages.

 

[Ken45101]

I would also think that using a diverter valve on the FEL controls also prevents you from using bucket functions (e.g. tilt, rollback) when you have the diverter active. Right?

Ken