Am I legal? Tow weight question (weights listed)

[jaquetarr]

I've been reading this thread and others as well. All I am is confused.
I have a 2000 F250 4X4, crew cab, 7.3 turbo
Inside the door it says GVWR 8800#, the factory hitch says 12000#; the reciever / ball is 12000#, Max Trailer weight is 12000# and max tongue weith is 1250#

My dump trailer has electric brakes, two axles, 7000# ea. Trailer GVWR is 14000#, cargo max is 10660#.

Now the question I have is How much can I tow? 10666 as per trailer or 12000# as per truck?

My initial feeling is to go with the 5 ton max load as marked on the trailer.

I certaintly don't want to run un safely.

There are a lot of more experienced voices here; your advise will be appreciated.
Rgds,
tim

 

[Raw Dodge]

I've been reading this thread and others as well. All I am is confused.
I have a 2000 F250 4X4, crew cab, 7.3 turbo
Inside the door it says GVWR 8800#, the factory hitch says 12000#; the reciever / ball is 12000#, Max Trailer weight is 12000# and max tongue weith is 1250#

My dump trailer has electric brakes, two axles, 7000# ea. Trailer GVWR is 14000#, cargo max is 10660#.

Now the question I have is How much can I tow? 10666 as per trailer or 12000# as per truck?

My initial feeling is to go with the 5 ton max load as marked on the trailer.

I certaintly don't want to run un safely.

There are a lot of more experienced voices here; your advise will be appreciated.
Rgds,
tim

realistically,you can tow up to the 8800gvwr on the truck,and 14,000 on the trailer axles....so a total of about 24,800lbs.That is tough to do with your truck as your truck weighs close to 8000 empty,it really isnt a true 3/4 ton truck more like a 1/2 ton with a lot of pulling power,but little carrying capacity.you need to have a very light trailer tongue to stay under 8800gvwr.Ford really messed up with the f250 from 99-04,as the 4x4 diesel crew cabs are so heavy empty the trucks can be legally overloaded with 5 good sized guys in the cab,and nothing in the bed,no trailer...sad because the truck can go alot higher than 8800,its an artifically low #for that truck....9900 should be the starting point for it.

 

[jaquetarr]

The empty weight of the truck only is 6300# as weighed

 

[Duffster]

The empty weight of the truck only is 6300# as weighed

Ummmm. Are you sure about that?

Both my PSD's weight more than that and neither are CC.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Your truck should weigh about 7,500# with you in it. 6,300# is way light. I have a 2004 F-250 PSD 4x4 Extended Cab Short Bed. Its GVWR is 10,000# and weighs 7,500# with me in it. Anyway your truck should be able to handle about 1,300# of tonge weight legally. I get that using your 8,800# GVWR - 7,500# empty weight.

Now legally you can tow up to the max of the weakest link. On your truck it will probably be the tow rating. I am guessing its around 12,000#. Like said before 8,800# GVWR is very low. Not all F-250's are created equal. So what this means for you is you could tow up to the max tow rating, max tonge weight, max hitch capacity, or max trailer GVWR. If your trailer is a 14,000# unit you could only load it to 12,000# including the empty weight of the trailer not taking full advantage of the trailers capacity due to the low GVWR of your truck.

Chris

 

[jaquetarr]

Well, I guess I had a Brain fart.
Rechecked the weight ticket and it reads (empty truck) 7760#

Time muddles a lot of things
Rgds,
Tim

 

[jaquetarr]

The numbers came from the door sticker and trailer sticker
Rgds,
tim

 

[JIGBUILDER]

Can you post a specific link?

The only thing I found is this and it specifically contradicts what you are saying, that and it references RV's

#1. it says GAWR plus the hitch weight = GVWR. Which is what I said.


#2. a truck and trailer is a combined weight. The trucks GVWR plus the trailers GVWR = combined weight. Now when DOT weighs the trailer the sum of the GAWR's had better be at least equal to trailers GVWR.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Well, I guess I had a Brain fart.
Rechecked the weight ticket and it reads (empty truck) 7760#

Time muddles a lot of things
Rgds,
Tim

So in that case you will be limited to either 1,040# in the bed or on the ball. I will never understand why Ford and GM made trucks with that low of a GVWR. Its truly not a 3/4 ton because you can not carry 1,500# legally in it.

Chris

 

[JIGBUILDER]

The numbers came from the door sticker and trailer sticker
Rgds,
tim

look at the rest of the door sticker. The only place GVWR is used that I'm aware of is for a combined weight. Your F250 should have a FAWR xxxx and a 6000 lb RAWR on the door tag. The trucks rear axle will carry most if not all the trailers hitch weight. Your trucks rear unladin weight may be in the 2900 lb range which leaves approx 3100 lb payload on the axle/tires. I certainly wouldn't carry over the trucks axle/tire capacities for a couple of reasons.

Using GVWR to figure axle weights is popular but is only approx 80-85 pecent of the trucks axle/tire capacity. Some states allow uprating GVWR/ladin/tonnage/tags/etc but your still limited by the trucks axle and tire capacities.

Your truck can tow whatever rating the manufacture gives it. However many '00 era trucks are limited to 10k by the manufactures class IV hitch or what ever class the hitch is. Many folks upgrade to the heavier class V bumper hitch for bigger loads.

 

[FlaDon]

look at the rest of the door sticker. The only place GVWR is used that I'm aware of is for a combined weight. Your F250 should have a FAWR xxxx and a 6000 lb RAWR on the door tag. The trucks rear axle will carry most if not all the trailers hitch weight. Your trucks rear unladin weight may be in the 2900 lb range which leaves approx 3100 lb payload on the axle/tires. I certainly wouldn't carry over the trucks axle/tire capacities for a couple of reasons.

Using GVWR to figure axle weights is popular but is only approx 80-85 pecent of the trucks axle/tire capacity. Some states allow uprating GVWR/ladin/tonnage/tags/etc but your still limited by the trucks axle and tire capacities.

Your truck can tow whatever rating the manufacture gives it. However many '00 era trucks are limited to 10k by the manufactures class IV hitch or what ever class the hitch is. Many folks upgrade to the heavier class V bumper hitch for bigger loads.

Your GVWR is the max the truck can weigh loaded. That includes any hitch loads. Example would be a truck rated 11400 GVWR weighing 10400 by itself plus 1000 lbs more on the hitch. Even though the axles together may be rated higher than the GVWR, that figure sets the max if weighed you could read on the scales for the truck. It is possible to have a front axle that is fine and still overload the rear axle while under the GVRW. At that point, the rear axle rating rules and the load must be reduced or shifted to get it under the rating. That's why you see semi's moving the trailer axles as they may have too much weight on the truck rear axles. But under the max load allowed.

 

[Duffster]

#1. it says GAWR plus the hitch weight = GVWR. Which is what I said.

Eh? Do you need me to repeat would you said again.

#2. a truck and trailer is a combined weight. The trucks GVWR plus the trailers GVWR = combined weight. Now when DOT weighs the trailer the sum of the GAWR's had better be at least equal to trailers GVWR.

If you are going to claim there are specific regulations for this then post a link.

Sorry of I can't take your word for it.

Besides you claim they don't use GVWR, so then why would it matter if GAWR=GVWR?

 

[KeithInSpace]

Just because I'm not a fan of speculation, I called Hudson Trailers a few minutes ago and spoke to Kenny at their office.

He verified that, indeed, the trailer is rated for 8,950# on the tongue plate. He further stated that the stated GVWR assumes a 1 ton tongue load.

I asked about that, passing along that a 1 ton tongue load exceeds the recommended 10% to 15% range for tongue loads and that most vehicles, especially 1/2 ton trucks, are probably only rated for 1,500# tongue load maximum.

He offered that it wasn't optimal and that he wouldn't recommend this trailer to someone who ordinarily carried, for example, a load over 5,500#.

So it would seem that not even the manufacturer recommends it, but he didn't want the potential purchaser to have any weight rating "left on the table", so he absolutely maximized the stated GVWR by adding the numbers together instead of deducting the trailer weight out of the equation.

Good for him and any purchasers, I guess. I'd only put 5,000# in it, rating or not. And from the tone of the conversation, neither would Kenny.

All that said, them's the facts.

 

[jaquetarr]

So in that case you will be limited to either 1,040# in the bed or on the ball. I will never understand why Ford and GM made trucks with that low of a GVWR. Its truly not a 3/4 ton because you can not carry 1,500# legally in it.

Chris

So if the trailer tongue weight is 1040# and the trailer is a 14000# GVWR, with a 12000# hitch, then I could pull up to the 12000# limit of the hitch limitation.?

If I upgraded the hitch to 14000#, with a 1040# tongue weight, I could pull 14000#?

I see that 1040# is NOT 10-15% of trailer weight as suggested.

Rgds,
tim

 

[FlaDon]

Just because I'm not a fan of speculation, I called Hudson Trailers a few minutes ago and spoke to Kenny at their office.

He verified that, indeed, the trailer is rated for 8,950# on the tongue plate. He further stated that the stated GVWR assumes a 1 ton tongue load.

I asked about that, passing along that a 1 ton tongue load exceeds the recommended 10% to 15% range for tongue loads and that most vehicles, especially 1/2 ton trucks, are probably only rated for 1,500# tongue load maximum.

He offered that it wasn't optimal and that he wouldn't recommend this trailer to someone who ordinarilly carried, for example, a load over 5,500#.

So it would seem that not even the manufacturer recommends it, but he didn't want the potential purchaser to have any weight rating "left on the table", so he absolutely maximized the stated GVWR by adding the numbers together instead of deducting the trailer weight out of the equation.

Good for him and any purchasers, I guess. I'd only put 5,000# in it, rating or not.

Did he say who made the coupler and what its rating was?

 

[FlaDon]

And here is a link to the 2000 copy of SAE J684. J684

 

[FlaDon]

So if the trailer tongue weight is 1040# and the trailer is a 14000# GVWR, with a 12000# hitch, then I could pull up to the 12000# limit of the hitch limitation.?

If I upgraded the hitch to 14000#, with a 1040# tongue weight, I could pull 14000#?

I see that 1040# is NOT 10-15% of trailer weight as suggested.

Rgds,
tim

The suggested weights range from 5 to 15% depending on who you read from. Example is my factory hitch which is rated 5000/600 weight carrying or 12000/1200 WD.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If I upgraded the hitch to 14000#, with a 1040# tongue weight, I could pull 14000#?

Rgds,
tim

At this point you need to find out what the max tow rating of your truck is. You have a odd situation that we do not see very often having a truck with such a large engine but such a little GVWR. But to answer your question yes, you could tow up to the max tow limit as long as the hitch is capable and you do not exceed the tongue weight limit of 1040# that your truck has. At no time can you exceed the 14,000# limit of your trailer. That will leave you with roughly 5 tons cargo as you stated when you deduct the weight of the trailer.

Chris

 

[KeithInSpace]

Did he say who made the coupler and what its rating was?

No. I wanted to talk to the guy, but didn't want to make him feel like I was some lawyer fishing for a lawsuit. Hate to keep him awake at night to satisfy this rather trivial conversation between friends.

But I think we all know the answer to the question...

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am glad you called and cleared it up. Towing a boat that has over 1,800# of tongue weight I can tell you its a lot. Way too much for my F-250 and my GM 3500. My F-350 4x4 PSD SRW handles it ok but its got the heaviest suspension for that year at 11,500# GVWR. I could have went with a dually but I do not care for the looks, the trouble, or how they handle the deep snow we get here. Trust me, anything near a ton of tongue weight on a bumper pull will make the toughest trucks feel the pain. We put it behind my buddies 2004 GMC 2500 6.0 gas and it squatted it nearly a foot. He would not leave my drive with it on the back.

The trailer for it has 3 6K axles and those are 2" x 10" main beams on the trailer. It has 10 ply 6 lug wheels and tire combo.

Chris