Need Opinions on A Small Work Space

[Iplayfarmer]

There's a root cellar on my place that I've never really used. The roof has finally degraded to the point where I either need to replace the roof, or cut down the cinder block walls and fill it in. For reference, the root cellar is attached to my small detached garage (22' X 20'), and the garage is my only workshop space. Half the cellar (41") is below grade and the other half is above grade with dirt piled up against most of it.

I'm thinking about adding stairs from the garage into the root cellar for a storage area and maybe also adding a second floor above it to be additional workshop space. I'm pretty good at scrounging, and I can probably get materials cheap (Craigs List, Freecycle, etc.) I'd do all of the labor myself. The trade off is my time and effort to build vs. the potential benefit of having an extra little bit of work space.

Is it worth it?

I'll add a reply to discuss pros and cons as I see them, but for now here are the plan details:

The current cellar is about 8 1/2' square, and the roof is 6' high. The walls are in great shape. I'd add another course of cinder block to raise the cellar roof, and I'd add an entrance direct from the garage with a half flight of stairs going down and a half flight going up. The top floor would be about a 10' square minus whatever floor I'd lose to stairs. I figure I'd have about 70 square feet plus some counter space over the stairs. Another option is to cantilever the joists as much as I can and gain some more floor space.

I've attached a few sketches to give a visual of what I'm planning. The first is a view from the garage side. The second is a view from the opposite side with the walls and roof hidden to see the inside.

 

[mjncad]

That looks like it could be used for chemical storage to me, or other small item storage.

Remember, that current cellar is about the size of an office cubicle, and having spent more years than I care to think about in one, you won't have a lot of room for much other than storage, especially when you factor in access stairs.

Or how about using the root cellar as a place for a large vertical air compressor? Of course there is the hassle of getting it down there; but that is not insurmountable. If it wouldn't be a nuisance to get full dust barrels out of there, I'd suggest putting a tall cyclone style dust collector in there.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Here are some of the potential uses I've thought about followed by some pros and cons as I see them. I'm very eager to see responses regarding uses for such a small area.

Uses
Workshop for small projects
Paint booth
Office (place to browse TBN)
Additional storage

Pros:

The walls of the existing cellar are in great shape. It would be a shame to tear them down, and converting the cellar to storage is about the only way I'll use it.

I like the idea of the root cellar for storage. It doesn't freeze, and so I could store my paints, adhesives, etc. there and not have to bring them inside.

I like the idea of having any extra storage at all. My garage/shop is very small, and space is at a premium. 16 extra feet of wall space for storage will be NICE.

With the upper floor being so small it would be easy to heat.

A separate workshop area would provide a place to do secondary projects (i.e. carburetor cleaning) without having to trip over a primary project (i.e. backhoe build)

Cons:

If I do fill the space in, it will make getting in and out of the pasture easier. (The root cellar is in front of the gate)

The upstairs area will be very small. I'll be limited on the size of project I can do there.

Building the extra storage/workspace may delay ever getting a real shop.


Also, I'd like to hear ideas on what to add while I'm putting in the space anyway. I'm already planning to run lots of power outlets and a few air drops if I build it. What else?

 

[dave1949]

It's nice to have fairly cool, stable temperature storage area for all sorts of sprays, paints, caulk tubes, keeping plants dormant, etc. That would be a bonus I think. For the same reasons, it would make a good wine cellar

How is the humidity? A root cellar would normally have fairly high humidity. Maybe paper products, wood, etc. would get musty in the lower portion.
Dave.

 

[forgeblast]

Well if you build the doors on either side of the shed so they swing open, you could still work on large projects the ends would just hang out.
I would love a root cellar on my property, Its one of the projects i will be eventually making. Its great to have in a what if sense.
Could you use the foundation and then build off on the sides to make it larger?
think of the foundation as a square, and then put a rectangle on top or will it mess with your gate?

 

[Iplayfarmer]

It's nice to have fairly cool, stable temperature storage area for all sorts of sprays, paints, caulk tubes, keeping plants dormant, etc. That would be a bonus I think. For the same reasons, it would make a good wine cellar

How is the humidity? A root cellar would normally have fairly high humidity. Maybe paper products, wood, etc. would get musty in the lower portion.
Dave.

The humidity is comparatively high, but I'm in an arid climate. I'd be selective about what went down there. I think wood would be okay, but no cardboard, etc. I'm thinking of leaving a small portion of the floor (under the stairs) dirt in case we do want to store some carrots or potatoes in there someday.

I've wondered if it would be a good place to cure green wood to keep it from splitting.

Well if you build the doors on either side of the shed so they swing open, you could still work on large projects the ends would just hang out.

Help me understand... Are you saying I should add multiple doors so that I can open them when I have a bigger project?

Keep in mind that the floor of the second story will be about 3 feet off the ground.

I would love a root cellar on my property, Its one of the projects i will be eventually making. Its great to have in a what if sense.
Could you use the foundation and then build off on the sides to make it larger?
think of the foundation as a square, and then put a rectangle on top or will it mess with your gate?

I just lately started wondering about doing just that. I'm exploring what the implications would be of cantilevering the foor out beyond the foundation. Does anyone know how far I can cantilever with 6" floor joists on 16" centers. The floor would have to support a single story wall and roof.

 

[forgeblast]

Yes if you have two doors across from each other you can still put long things in your workspace and be able to work on them. I have my chop saw next to my door so if i need to cut a long piece of something i just hang it out the door and have a sawhorse there to support it.
3' off the ground you could take a 2x8 4' long and cut it diagonally which would give you a ramp. just add decking and you would be good to go.

thinking about the canterleveing what about like a pole barn, pouring some tubes (of cement with metal fastners) that will allow you to attach the Joists which would have the floor all supported on each end.

 

[charlz]

I know you said space is tight but can you put the stairs in the garage to bring you up to the 'second floor'? Then use a 'trap door' to access the root cellar. This would give you the full floor space in the addition.

Otherwise I would look to going with the design you have but look at expanding it as already mentioned.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I know you said space is tight but can you put the stairs in the garage to bring you up to the 'second floor'? Then use a 'trap door' to access the root cellar. This would give you the full floor space in the addition.

Otherwise I would look to going with the design you have but look at expanding it as already mentioned.

I think I'd rather give up the cellar space than garage space. The trap door idea is getting somewhere. One idea I had was to make the stair rail such that it folds down accross the stairs to make more space. The other idea is to put the stairs up the outside.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm officially obsessed with this idea now. I've redrawn the plans no less than 5 times now. Each time the plan gets a little better.

I found out that I can cantilever my floor a distance equivalent to the depth of the joist. That gives me another foot.

I also decided that the door from the garage wasn't going to work where I had it drawn due to headspace issues, so the door and stairs are now drawn outside the root cellar. That gives me the space that the stairs were going to take up.

I'm toying more with Forgeblast's idea of putting in a second door opposite the existing one to accomodate longer projects when needed. I'm thinking about making the other door a narrow roll-up door. It will depend on what I can find on the used market. I'm also thinking about extending the roof out the back of the structure far enough that I can have a covered parking place for a tractor or implements.

Right now I'm searching for information on how far I can extent the lookout rafters on the roof. I'd like to extend the roof three feet to cover the door from the garage and the stairs, but I don't know if I can go out that far. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm resurrecting this old thread to ask for more opinions. I've revisited this idea occasionally throughout the years since the last post. True to predictions, the plan has grown. I'll make a few posts here to break the idea down into a few component parts.

First of all here are some pictures of the lot as it is now and some shots of what I think the finished product may look like. The plan has changed since the original concept. I did some figuring and found that building a 12' X 16' area wasn't much more expensive than building a 10' X 10' because I can use full sheets of material. I added the poles to to the cantilevered parts to support the structure. I'm planning to add a course of block to the old root cellar to allow me to stand up in there. You'll also notice the added roof to create some covered storage area.

The next post will include a few more proposed details of the construction.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Now here are some details of the construction.

The first picture is of the root cellar after the old roof is removed and the new course of block is laid. This picture also shows the corner poles that will help support the overhanging structure. This bottom root cellar area will be for storage only. I plan a lot of shelves and maybe some racks along one wall for lumber.

The second picture shows how the joists will go. This is where I'm not sure what the best way to do it is. I toyed with joists running the short length, but this seems like a more solid design. The weight of the building will be supported on the poles at the corners, but the cantilevered Joists will help strengthen the whole structure. My current plan calls for 16' 2X8's for the joists.

The third picture shows the wall framing, but it also shows how I'm planning a counter to help accomodate the head space needed for the door to the bottom floor. A note about the rollup door: I plan to have this rollup door be about truck bed height. I see this door being the access for bringing larger projects in or out of the workspace. I can either do this with the truck or the loader of the tractor. I'm still not committed to the garage door idea. It will depend on if I can find a very small door for very cheap.

The fourth picture show the rafter roof. I may do joists if I can find some for cheap, but it seems reasonable that a 12' span shouldn't be hard with homemade rafters.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Now that I've boosted my post count with some details of the idea, I'm looking for input.

1) Do I need to tie the new construction to the existing garage structure somehow? There's about a 4' x 4' section of the existing garage that will contact the new workshop.

2) Any opinions about the direction the joists run? I have them running the 16' direction, but would I be better to run them the 12' direction?

3) Is the idea to use poles to support the portion of the building that overhangs the block foundation a bad idea?

4) What size poles would you recommend that I use for the shop corners? What about for the open shed area? (The shed roof is 12' off the ground.)