Reversing the B3030 Cab model cooling fan for operator health

[mjncad]

Waxman:

I think you need to address the factory holes in your cab first before resorting to more drastic measures.

As others have said, you need a slight positive pressure in the cab to keep the dirty air at bay. Also that positive pressure air has to escape in a controlled manner through a predetermined set of exit points. The extra holes in the cab where control levers, etc pass through may be part of Kubota's design for discharging the pressurized air; but I doubt it.

How about taping and stuffing the holes temporarily to see if that cures the problem; if so, then you can move onwards to a permanent fix.

 

[WaxMan]

Waxman:

I think you need to address the factory holes in your cab first before resorting to more drastic measures.

As others have said, you need a slight positive pressure in the cab to keep the dirty air at bay. Also that positive pressure air has to escape in a controlled manner through a predetermined set of exit points. The extra holes in the cab where control levers, etc pass through may be part of Kubota's design for discharging the pressurized air; but I doubt it.

How about taping and stuffing the holes temporarily to see if that cures the problem; if so, then you can move onwards to a permanent fix.

I have tried that, weather striping, 3m sealer strips. Still comes in.
Most comes in behind the dash cowl and lower piece this is where a lot of it comes in where the wires and hoses come in. I thought of that expanding foam in a can. I don't want to go that route because once you use that stuff it makes a mess of everything.

Plus what if I want to turn the blower down or have it off, should I have to live with the dirty engine compartment air inside the cab.
The engine compartment air should not be competing with the inside cab air.
You have to keep the fan on high but in the end the engine air wins the built up dirt over time in the cab proves that.
Just because that is the way Kubota deigned it doesn't mean Its the best design. They didn't do a good job with it just as they didn't do a good job of making it quieter. After 440hr use this is my only complaint about the B3030cab

I don't think it is drastic at all to buy another fan shroud put in a electric fan and replace the current fan shroud and blade . If it makes my cab cleaner quieter , and odor free , I'll be happy.
It will stop the engine air from entering the cab.
It will help with more positive cab pressure.
It may make it run hotter, this is what I have to find out. (most cars have a electric cooling fan today)
If the tractor runs hotter to the point where it will be a problem i'll put the factory shroud and blade back on.

mjmcad You don't think I'm not capable of doing that do you?

If it works it will solve the problem I had since day one.
If it doesn't I'll give the tractor to DELInstallations although,...... he gave me the idea? ......maybe he set me up.

 

[WaxMan]

Well I picked up a fan today and temporary installed it in the shroud, It blew plenty of air out the front, no air blowing into the cab, I ran it about 3/4 hour at 2000 RPM with the a/c on.
Temp stayed halfway between hot and cold, grills on the side of the engine you could feel air going in every thing seemed fine.
One problem
The hood in front by the plastic headlights got to 155 degrees the bar above the battery 171 degrees. This is on a 60 degree day. So I don't want to leave the fan that way
On a 95 degree day the headlights will melt just before the battery explodes.
So to all those who said it can't be done were right, I was wrong.
At least I tried , oh well back to the fumes and dirt. If it wasn't for the battery I would leave it that way but the battery can't take 200 plus degrees.

 

[DELInstallations]

Sure, c'mon over and we'll work it out

 

[crashz]

Sounds like you need to remove the hot air prior to hitting the cowl. Have you tried removing the side panels around the engine comartment? Maybe a permanent solution would be to have louvers or holes in the side panels prior to the cab to reduce the differential pressure between the engine compartment (high presure) and the cab (lower pressure)?

 

[rdsaustintx]

Once in my life I'd like to be called Sir.....of course without being followed by "you're making a scene"

Just once in my life I'd like to be called sir... of course without being followed by being handcuffed.

 

[medicshawn]

Cold you try using the holes in the dash/brake pedals to help exhaust air from your cab? Make your cab negative so it pulls air in through the current filtered area and exhausts it back into the engine. If you could do that good enough you could add a second entrance for air into your cab that's filtered.

Could you add a second filter fan assembly in the roof?

Could you put louvers or some type of opening in your hood to give that air somewhere to exhaust too? Maybe try removing the hood and replace it with cardboard to see if you could lower the pressure/airflow in the engine compartment it would help your issue.

 

[leonz]

I am inclined to think the fan is bad or going bad if you have very little air moving in the cabin from sounds of the situation with your B3030.

You may have a bad squirrel cage fan with either a bad rotor or stator.

The fan control switch may be bad which typically is shunt resistor allowing so much current throught shunt at certain positions of the switch just like a car fan control working some times and not others and delivering a very low fan speed in the worst case with out dumping a fuse.

The B3030 cabins made for the B3030 are made by Laurin inc of Laval, Ontario, Canada thier home office number is 1-450-689-1962


I believe you may have a either a bad resistor and or fan assembly of which both would be easy to check with a call to Laurin to find the amperage readings for the fan and switch.


Installing a 3M furnace filter would be easy enough over the fan intake with a simple frame to hold the filter over the intake of the fan housing.

===================================================================================================================


Laurin has three model cabins for your tractor being the EL, ES or EX model for your B3030. I would call Luarin directly and ask them about your situation as the roof top air conditioner will most likely solve the problem of dirt in the cab quickly for you.

You may be able to simply swap the cabs roof out with the roof ment for the air conditioner and solve the dust problem. you would most likely need the high output alternator for the air conditioner unit



leonz

 

[ACHINBAC]

Wax my friend . . a tyvek suit will solve this issue - please post pics . . .

 

[mjncad]

I have tried that, weather striping, 3m sealer strips. Still comes in.
Most comes in behind the dash cowl and lower piece this is where a lot of it comes in where the wires and hoses come in. I thought of that expanding foam in a can. I don't want to go that route because once you use that stuff it makes a mess of everything.

Plus what if I want to turn the blower down or have it off, should I have to live with the dirty engine compartment air inside the cab.
The engine compartment air should not be competing with the inside cab air.
You have to keep the fan on high but in the end the engine air wins the built up dirt over time in the cab proves that.
Just because that is the way Kubota deigned it doesn't mean Its the best design. They didn't do a good job with it just as they didn't do a good job of making it quieter. After 440hr use this is my only complaint about the B3030cab

I don't think it is drastic at all to buy another fan shroud put in a electric fan and replace the current fan shroud and blade . If it makes my cab cleaner quieter , and odor free , I'll be happy.
It will stop the engine air from entering the cab.
It will help with more positive cab pressure.
It may make it run hotter, this is what I have to find out. (most cars have a electric cooling fan today)
If the tractor runs hotter to the point where it will be a problem i'll put the factory shroud and blade back on.

mjmcad You don't think I'm not capable of doing that do you?

If it works it will solve the problem I had since day one.
If it doesn't I'll give the tractor to DELInstallations although,...... he gave me the idea? ......maybe he set me up.

I agree with your assessment about the design not being correct. It sounds like Kubota didn't isolate the cab sufficiently.

No offense intended by the way.

 

[DELInstallations]

Most automotive 12v fans have some sort of shroud attached, and if they're too big, usually they can be trimmed down. Most I've seen attach using glorified ty-raps passed through the rad's core and then cinched down holding the fan in place.

 

[WaxMan]

Wax my friend . . a tyvek suit will solve this issue - please post pics . . .

You know how if you wake up at 3 in the morning and you start thinking about stuff, well I thought about all what you guys were saying about the fresh air flow not being enough. About the blower fan going bad , bad rotor etc. that I need another blower etc. and I need more positive pressure and volume . And I thought about why smfcpafp doesn't have this problem and other don't either.

Then I thought about what ACHINBAC said, for those of you that have trouble deciphering what he said, This is what he really said
"Grasshopper the answer to your question lies in the picture" So thinking of his picture three guys having fun with an obvious make believe fish.
Then it accrued to me he meant , My picture .


See the blower in the picture , the best possible fresh air flow would be to cut a hole in the roof just above the squirrel cage and have a filter there on top.
But that is not how it is , How it is the roof sits right over that squirrel cage about an inch or so higher imagine taking the roof and placing it over the hole about an inch,
Now the air flow is cut back and is drawn from all over.

The problem is the headliner, after the a/c unit and right after the gold metal strip the headliner goes right up and touches the roof over your head ,where you sit, the headliner is the highest. I know this because when I was putting in the dome light there was no clearance between the roof and the headliner.
But the (fresh air filter) air inlet is at the back of the cab, so the fan just sucks air where ever it can around the edges some from the back the front , sides anywhere it can because its restricted slightly from the filter in the back. What I have to do is put a couple of foam strips between the headliner and the roof to leave space for the air flow from the filter to the blower. similar to the foam blocks shown in the picture.

smfcpafp
Says he doesn't have this problem that maybe because his headliner either has small blocks like shown in the picture on top of the a/c unit or the headliner just sits down lower then mine.
On my headliner it never had any spacers or anything to separate the headliner from the roof as I said I had this problem from day one.
Anyway thanks to all you guys and your posts , because of you guys and your ideas I think this may be the problem.

Edit Correction I just went out and pushed up on the headliner there is about3/8 of an inch space before it hits the roof. So hopfully if I increase that space I will increase the air flow. What I should do is get two strips of 1 inch weather stripping and go from the rear air intake to the blower , that way it will be more of a direct line of air flow from the outside air so there will be less of a chance of pulling the air from elsewhere in the roof. I think

 

[milkman]

Squirrel cage blowers running backward doesn't put out much air, had a furnace blower replaced one time and it didn't pull much air at all, called them back and they found that the blower was wired wrong and running backward. There should be enough air pulled through the intake to put positive pressure in the cab and keep out the dust. I say that because this summer I run an old IH 1066 with cab and air, the rubber boots around the clutch and the brakes was gone and there was still no dust coming in the cab with the air on. The engine smell you are getting, could it be that the intake is sucking the exhaust from the exhaust that exit's about 3' in front of it and at about the same level? Just throwing out ideas, hope you find the fix.

 

[WaxMan]

No definitely not backwards and definitely not an exhaust smell had that then moved it up and out of the way , besides there is a gasket all around the roof where it mounts to the cab , no leaks there. I hate diesel exhaust smell.
Its a hot motor smell hot rubber hoses etc. if you sit in the cab without any air or heat on it builds up and I can smell the motor smell.

If you look closely at the picture of the roof mount a/c box in the front you can see traces of tan dust where it is being sucked up from inside the cab. There is also some near the hoses . This is whats left after I cleaned most of it up.

If its being suck back in then it is recirculating instead of being fresh and cutting down on the positive air flow. Maybe I'll try that thick foam that is used for pickup truck caps , Run one long piece around the squirrel cage back to the intake like a big long U that way the blower will only suck thru the flittered outside air. I'll attach it to the underside of the roof.

 

[brandoro]

I'm probably not as meticulous as you but I just wiped out my cab for the first time, ever, and it wasn't that bad. I bought the tractor new in the spring and have 90 hours on it at the moment. A good portion of those hours was with the RFM or the flail, some with the grader scraper so not like I have been driving up and down the pavement with it. Well, I have done that too but not much.
I haven't taken anything apart to have a real good look but it appears to me that even when the air control is in the position for fresh air it is still drawing a fair bit of air from inside the cab. Maybe you could adjust the damper to force the fan to draw more outside air to increase pressure inside the cab.
I have been thinking about this since I read about your dilema and can't recall ever smelling exhaust or hot engine/hoses smells. I have also not done anything to try to close up any openings in the cab where pedals or controls pass through, it never seemed to be a problem. I rarely run the fan above the lowest speed either, in fact if the temperature is okay with the two wing windows open I might not run the fan at all, still no (unexpected) smells.

 

[My Hoe]

Trust me,
reversing the fan will not reverse air flow.
Not only will it not push, instead of pull,
but it will loose efficiency because of the curve of the blades-- BTDT.
(lift affect, like airplane wings)
you must get a reverse flow fan.
I put a reverse flow fan on a Ford industrial tractor being used inside a factory for operator comfort.

Hey 'ol George,

1. Do you or anyone else know if Kubota offers a "reverse flow" fan?

2. Difficulty level for a "shade tree mechanic?"

3. Like the OP, I would NOT want the fumes (diesel or just hot oil) in the cab, NOR THE DUST!

So I'll be watching the thread closely--great question!

Thanks,

My Hoe

 

[PHILIP8N]

This thread died on October 2009, so there may not be too many updates. I do not know if an oem fan is available, others might. If you need a pusher fan contact Multi-Wing Fan in Ohio. They will need specifications like static resistance and cfm that you cannot provide, so you may have to remove the fan and send it to them. Good luck. Philip.

 

[High Compression]

Well I had my B3030 cab model for almost two years and as far as keeping the dust out of the inside of the cab it's a crappy design.
I used it quite a bit this summer and last for dirt work, grading etc. If I'm working in dusty conditions the whole inside of the cab is covered with fine dirt and silt all the while the A/C is blowing the dust around inside the enclosed cab. I could get inside the cab for two hours working in the dirt and never get out of the cab once and my once clean pants are all dusty where if you slap your leg a cloud of dust comes off. Very unhealthily to breath this silt for hours at a time in the small enclosed cab without fresh air.
I replaced the air filter in the back 3 times since I bought the tractor, check for leaks many times all around the roof etc.

The only thing I could think of is the engine fan is blowing the dust thru the holes in the firewall, pedal opening etc. into the cab, I know for a fact if you take the dash cowl off it's all dust and dirt behind there.
I have been thinking of reversing the fan blade so instead of blowing the air across the motor into the cab it would blow the air thru the front grill.
Since the fan is off-set it looks like I would have to cut down the aluminum spacer and turn the blade around so it won't hit the radiator.

The BX models exhaust the air out the front. Why can't the B3030. I would buy another spacer to cut down just in case it would run too hot and I would have to turn it back around.
The temp gauge always runs just above the cold mark so there is room for it to run a little hotter.
Does anybody have any thoughts on this.

From my understanding, the new B3000 has a ton of improvements in the cab to seal it up better. I had to ask my dealer when I traded my B3030 in and saw the B3000 sitting in front of the store.