4720 vs 3720, should I upgrade? :)

[orlo]

Hi:

I currently have a 3720cab loaded to the gills, 3rd scv, electric diverter valves, power to the rear, radio, etc. It's just over 2 years old with about 200hrs on it.

The new 60 month 0% financing and 66hp 4720 has got me thinking about upgrading.

The specific things I'd like on the 4720 are:
o More HP - Occasionally while mowing going uphill a little more would be great
o More HP - Why not?
o More lift capacity in the 400CX
o The auto-leveler of the 400CX
o The American made 2.5l Powertech engine
o Larger frame.
o E-PTO
o Super rugged Planetary gear rear end
o Did I mention More HP?
o Wider Stance but I really can't count this since I have 6" (per side)
Unverferth wheel extensions now on my 3720.

Can anyone else mention any other things I'm not thinking of to convince or not convince me to get this? Can anyone speak to the noise level difference (If any) between the Yanmar and the Powertech? The cab on my 3720 is very quiet with the engine. Even
with the engine at PTO RPM, is the 4720 comparable?

My main uses are Mowing about 5-6 acres, rare bush hogging, Loader work, Loader/tree work with the grapple and PTO accessory use. I have a 2305 with a Woods BH6000 backhoe on it so I don't see a need hoe for the 4720 in my near future. (But we all know it's not about needs

One other thing I'm thinking about is NOT loading the tires. I've loaded every set of tires I've had but it does make the ride a bit harsher. I might just get wheel weights and use my 1100# ballast block for loading. My logic is that if I don't load the tires it'll weigh about the same as my 3720 WITH loaded tires.
(4720 is about 800lbs heavier) so for mowing that might be better. I've run both R4's and R3's and would be running R3's on this if I got it. I've considered the 'super' (golf) R3's but they are so expensive and I don't think I really need that much floatation but I could be convinced as long as I could use the loader with them.


I know the drawbacks are no front PTO accessories (I have the 59" blower now - I'll probably switch to a Rear mount blower). I'd probably trade in my 72"MMM but I mow mostly with an 84" RFM. It's slightly bigger but that's not a problem for my use.
Other accessories I have that I'll keep are the 72" Deere Grapple, a stump grinder (More HP = Good), chipper, RFM, LX5 and some manual implements (72" BB, 72" blade, Rake, etc.).

I'd be losing a bit more than I'd like (Probably 13-15K vs what I paid new 2+ years ago) on the trade and my 3720 would be paid off in 10 months vs another 4+ years if I take the 0% deal (Although with smaller payments). Also note that the loader that I'd trade is older as it was on a prior tractor (3320) when I got the 3720.

Any Opinions either way are appreciated and details I may have forgotten would be welcome and needed.

Thanks,

 

[radman1]

I sold my 2006 cabbed 3720 last month and bought a cabbed 4520. The 3720 was loaded with HST, CX300 FEL, 3 rear hydraulics, side mirrors, tool box, aux hydraulics to the loader, radio, horn, air ride seat, skid steer carrier attachment, R4 tires, cruise, rear work lights, and block heater. Loaded with most options. 375 hours and excellent condition. Sold it for $25,250. Bought cabbed 4520 with R1 tires, CX400 loader, 2 sets or rear wheel weights, E-pto and otherwise set up the same as the 3720. (I kept the mirrors from the 3720). I bought the JD skid steer foundry bucket which is about the same price as JD's HD CUT bucket. The foundry bucket is substantially more HD than any JD CUT bucket.

I sold the 3720 because I moved this tractor to the farm and needed more traction, much more clearance and much better stability. I also need the tires to fit 30" crop rows. The 3720 could not handle any amount of mud and would get stuck or quickly high centered. The drawbar on the 3720 was 9" from the ground and on the 4520, about 17". I sold the 3720 privately on craigslist in 2 weeks. The trade in value from 3 different dealers was $21,000 from one dealer and $17,000 from 2 other dealers. You will take a beating on direct trade in. The cash just as well go in my pocket rather than the dealer. The dealer with the best price on the new, 4520 also gave the the highest trade in value.

The 4520 with R1 tires seems substantially taller and wider than the 3720. To be honest, I would keep the 3720 since it can do all of your tasks just fine. The 4x20 series probably won't mow any faster than your 3720 unless the grass is very heavy. You can only travel so fast mowing before the cut becomes unacceptable. For yard mowing the 4520 is getting a little on the large side. A similarly equipped 4720 is $2000 more. Wasn't worth it for 6 hp. The 4520 has the same hp as the 4720's did prior to 2009.These tractors already have more hp than they can put to the ground.

One more thing, the 4x20 series has a louder and more noticable knock to the engine compare to the yanmar of the 3x20 series. It is not really noticable in the cab but apparent when on the ground.

 

[orlo]

Radman:

Thanks for the reply, good info. I do know that the 3720 meets my 'needs', but as I mentioned (and we all know) it's not just about what you need. I didn't realize the difference in drawbar heights. Good info on the used market. My dealer offered me a little over 31K for trade in which doesn't seem too bad but I'm sure I could get more selling it outright.

I do think the extra lifting capacity would come to good use, especially when I use my 72" JD grapple (It weights about 700lbs).

You are correct about mowing, the grass never slows me down (with my 84" RFM), it's only the hills.

 

[jenkinsph]

Having a variety of tractors and mowers can be a good thing, I am currently using a cheap L 130 mower, a 4520 cab and a 110tlb cab units. This is working out well so far. In your case with primarily mowing tasks why not keep the 3720 since it is all fixed up and buy a superduper mower? I think of the 3000 series as an odd size for me, not big enough for much ground engaging work and not small enough to get in really tight spots either. Interestingly though, the more you work on your yard the less important having a tractor is and the more important having a good mower is. I would suspect that keeping the 3720 for now and buying a better mower will work best for youl.

If you were buying straigtht up without any tractors I would reccomend the super duper mower, a 4xxx tractor without loader and a 110tlb if really needed, I would also make the jumps or transitions in size count, maybe a 2xxx, a 4xxx and then a 6xxx sizes. Hope this helps.


Steve

 

[dfkrug]

The 4x20 JDs use all-steel structural castings, while the 3x20s use a lot
of aluminum in the rear axle and rearbox castings. The former tractor
series whould be much more durable.

BTW, a JD spokeman at the World AG Expo said the engines used in the
4x20 series are made in Mexico, not the US.

 

[radman1]

Radman:

Thanks for the reply, good info. I do know that the 3720 meets my 'needs', but as I mentioned (and we all know) it's not just about what you need. I didn't realize the difference in drawbar heights. Good info on the used market. My dealer offered me a little over 31K for trade in which doesn't seem too bad but I'm sure I could get more selling it outright.

I assume the 31K trade-in is using list price for the new JD 4720? I always have them break down the trade-in and price of the new tractor separately so I can really see the true numbers. My 4520 was about 16.5% off of list. I paid about 17% off list when I bought the 3720 new. I think I paid around 33-34k for the 3720. You will also need to consider the remaining 10 months of payments on the 3720 in your calculations.

 

[orlo]

I assume the 31K trade-in is using list price for the new JD 4720? I always have them break down the trade-in and price of the new tractor separately so I can really see the true numbers. My 4520 was about 16.5% off of list. I paid about 17% off list when I bought the 3720 new. I think I paid around 33-34k for the 3720. You will also need to consider the remaining 10 months of payments on the 3720 in your calculations.

The 31K is what they'd give me outright for my 3720 loaded, 300cx loader, 61" HD Bucket, 59" blower and 72" MMM. The price they are giving me on the 4720 isn't much off list (I'm guessing 3-7% based on what I've done in the configurator), but this is in VT where they don't seem to deal too much, and the dealer's service more than makes up for any difference in discount in my book. The 4720 is around 52K with EPTO, a 400CX, 72" HD bucket with replacable scraper blade, power to the rear, diverter valves, radio, air seat, rear lights, deluxe hood guard, R3's, mirrors, 3rd circuit to the loader, and lot's of stuff I can't even remember anymore Block heater, etc.

 

[orlo]

Having a variety of tractors and mowers can be a good thing, I am currently using a cheap L 130 mower, a 4520 cab and a 110tlb cab units. This is working out well so far. In your case with primarily mowing tasks why not keep the 3720 since it is all fixed up and buy a superduper mower? I think of the 3000 series as an odd size for me, not big enough for much ground engaging work and not small enough to get in really tight spots either. Interestingly though, the more you work on your yard the less important having a tractor is and the more important having a good mower is. I would suspect that keeping the 3720 for now and buying a better mower will work best for youl.

If you were buying straigtht up without any tractors I would reccomend the super duper mower, a 4xxx tractor without loader and a 110tlb if really needed, I would also make the jumps or transitions in size count, maybe a 2xxx, a 4xxx and then a 6xxx sizes. Hope this helps.


Steve

Steve: Do you have a 110TLB CAB? I didn't know they made such a beast?
Also, I'm perfectly happy mowing with my 84" RFM, it's quicker than a Zero turn since I have no real obstacles and the 3720 can maneuver everywhere on my lot (I once mowed my whole lot with a 15' used batwing the dealer dropped off for me to try - A little tough in the front yard but weeeeeeee in the back yard). With the RFM I can (If I need to) mow under low trees by backing in. Also one phrase says I mow in the tractor - A/C cab

Also, I also have a 2305 with a loader, BH, mower, snowblower, etc. and completely appreciate having multiple sizes of tractors. (I use them on different lots but frequently swap them for special chores).

 

[orlo]

Also forgot to mention that I also use the 3720 for snow removal (If that wasn't apparent).

 

[jenkinsph]

Orlo,
If the 3720 meets your mowing needs very well then I would keep it, especially since you have all the upgrades and implements to fit. If you do buy a larger tractor why not step up to a simple 5000 series tractor if you have other heavy tasks.

I bought the Laurin Ecipse cab for my 110tlb when new in 2005, very happy with it too. I think I have all the options except a radio ( since I am a broadcast engineer I like to escape this while on my tractors).

Also when I bought the 4520 cab this May with six front 70 lb weights, six 110 lb rear weights, upgraded cruise and loadmatch, rear wiper, R4 tires, economy pto, rear outlet, front grill guard and rear worklights for $34,000. This was from a good dealership and I think you should be able to get a good discount just about anywhere in the country today.



steve

 

[jd3020u]

Orlo, How big of hills do you have to mow? I'm looking at getting an open station 3720 or 4410 and saw your tractor could use more power sometimes. I've got at least an acre of hillside that I mow. Of course a good grounds keeper mows in a new direction every week so sometimes I go straight up.

Do you have the loader on when you mow?. I don't know how many pounds you have in your tires, but the loader and cab would be about 1400 lbs. heavier right off the bat.

I've thought about the 4610's or 4520's too. The bigger the tires the smoother the ride I've always said. I think the ePTO would be sweet sometimes too. I'm split on the smaller size for loader work in tight areas or the bigger stance for a more stable ride. I worry about compaction after while though. And after rebuilding the engine balancer in my 3020 I'd like to stick with a naturally balanced engine. Something about adding more unbalanced parts swinging around to cover up vibration just doesn't seem right! I have a 3pt blower already but I wish for a front mount if I ever found a good deal.

Also, what size are your rear tires? The 43x16-20's would have the effect of gearing the trans up versus the 15.00-19.5

Tim

 

[jenkinsph]

Tim,
I have had a 3020 and now have a new 4520 and can tell you that a better match for your 3020 would be a 5xxx machine.



Steve

 

[jd3020u]

Steve, I won't be replacing the 3020. Its one of 937 diesel utility versions made. I nearly have everything overhauled as needed from front front to back. I'm hoping for paint this winter. I've been using a 13'5" flex-wing with it this summer to get the engine broke in and to check for leaks. The engine barely notices the steepest part of my hill, and with the PowerShift trans its pretty close to driving a hydro. This combination while fun, is just to big and heavy for continued mowing on my lawn. I got a good deal on the flex-wing since it needed some work so I plan to sell it next spring to help pay for the next tractor.

Tim

 

[jenkinsph]

Tim I am well satisfied with the 4520 cab tractor, with weights and no loader its close to 5500 lbs.

I mow about 1.6 acres with an L130 riding mower in a little over 2 hrs, that is a smooth yard with frequent cutting.


Steve

 

[orlo]

Orlo, How big of hills do you have to mow? I'm looking at getting an open station 3720 or 4410 and saw your tractor could use more power sometimes. I've got at least an acre of hillside that I mow. Of course a good grounds keeper mows in a new direction every week so sometimes I go straight up.

Do you have the loader on when you mow?. I don't know how many pounds you have in your tires, but the loader and cab would be about 1400 lbs. heavier right off the bat.

I've thought about the 4610's or 4520's too. The bigger the tires the smoother the ride I've always said. I think the ePTO would be sweet sometimes too. I'm split on the smaller size for loader work in tight areas or the bigger stance for a more stable ride. I worry about compaction after while though. And after rebuilding the engine balancer in my 3020 I'd like to stick with a naturally balanced engine. Something about adding more unbalanced parts swinging around to cover up vibration just doesn't seem right! I have a 3pt blower already but I wish for a front mount if I ever found a good deal.

Also, what size are your rear tires? The 43x16-20's would have the effect of gearing the trans up versus the 15.00-19.5

Tim

My hills aren't very big and slow me down maybe for 7-8 seconds per swipe when I have to slow down in Mid range from maybe 5-6mph to 2-3. I also turn at the top. It's a tiny hill (Maybe 8-10 feet elevation gain) but it's probably 25%-30% at points? I mow the top couple of rows across, then when I get maybe 15-16% I start mowing up and down. Not a big area so I can't really justify it as a 'need'.

I do find in general that the hydro's seem to suck up quite a bit of power going up hill. On level ground I never slow down from just mowing with an 84" RFM. I have a post where I ran a 15' batwing (over this same hill too, but I'm sure I was in low for the hill with that). On level ground with 2 weeks moderate growth I could mow at a good speed with the 35pto HP.

I mow with loaded R3's (Not super large), about 800lbs of load, a Cab, and the loader frame (no bucket) - about 1100lbs. I'm running just shy of 6000lbs (3600+800+1100+ME(220)+misc) when I mow right now.

I don't have many obstacles and mow over 5+ acres in usually 1.5-1.45hrs unless I'm bagging or something. Sometimes I can mow even faster. I mow faster with the 84" RFM than I do with my 72" MMM.

If I end up getting the 4720 it would probably be 20% need, 80% want...

I honestly think the biggest thing I'd notice is the additional lift on the 400CX especially when I use the grapple. The auto-leveler would be pretty sweet also.

 

[jd3020u]

I agree with the hydro taking a lot of power. If an open tractor starts at 2900, then with maybe 700 for the 72 mmm, plus loader mounts and me, there should be about 2000 lbs difference. That could definitely change performance for me. I have more than 10 feet of elevation change so I can't be bogged down much or I'll be mowing all night.

My yard is 6 acres minus the driveway, shed, trees, and house. I need about a 1.5 hrs using the 3020 and following up with a smaller mower. Two machines make it take longer by the time I get everything parked. My old 420 with a 72 mmm at 4.25 mph takes 2.5 hrs.

I recently rode with a guy in his Cat 420 tlb while he was pushing dirt from our basement. He just hit the pile with the bucket and Cat had its way. All that power sure makes things fun! That's the 80% want factor.

 

[jenkinsph]

I agree with the hydro taking a lot of power. If an open tractor starts at 2900, then with maybe 700 for the 72 mmm, plus loader mounts and me, there should be about 2000 lbs difference. That could definitely change performance for me. I have more than 10 feet of elevation change so I can't be bogged down much or I'll be mowing all night.

My yard is 6 acres minus the driveway, shed, trees, and house. I need about a 1.5 hrs using the 3020 and following up with a smaller mower. Two machines make it take longer by the time I get everything parked. My old 420 with a 72 mmm at 4.25 mph takes 2.5 hrs.

I recently rode with a guy in his Cat 420 tlb while he was pushing dirt from our basement. He just hit the pile with the bucket and Cat had its way. All that power sure makes things fun! That's the 80% want factor.

If the mechanicals on that tractor are in good shape I think you will be amazed how much fresh paint, new seat and some fenders would make. I also suspect you could pull that batwing without rear ballast no problem either. Nice tractor


Steve

 

[jd3020u]

I've been working for two years off and on getting every thing restored. It doesn't look like much yet but my stack of receipts is impressive! I'm rebuilding the seat suspension now and the fenders will be next.

It doesn't even no the batwing is back there, much better than my 1020 could muster.

A demo 3720 is probably the only way I'll know for sure if its what I want. 3520's are the biggest I see locally though.

Tim