Comparison TYM versus Kioti versus other compact tractors

[austrac]

Hi,

I am looking at purchasing my first tractor here in Australia and discovered this great forum while researching the various models (great work on the forum btw). I hope someone has advise to offer me. I know most respondents are American so excuse my terminology if different and feel free to ask me to explain further.

First our land: I have just made a tree-change to 30 acres hobby farm in hilly countryside in Victoria, Australia (I don't know the grade but steep in some parts). Jobs to do with tractor include grading gravel driveway, moving stones/gravel for driveway to fill pot-holes etc., slashing, some small earth-moving landscaping jobs, potentially weed-spraying, moving logs and fire-wood collecting, potentially post-hole digging, and I guess I'll find 101 other uses when purchased.
We also have a small established hazelnut orchard (also on a slope) so the tractor needs to fit under the branches.

Implements: Initially a 4-in-1 bucket, grader blade, slasher, tray ... then later post hole digger and sprayer.

I am looking at spending A$20,000 and have found two tractors currently with a great deal close to where I live. Open to other options. The model numbers I think differ here than in the US but will give comparison.

TYM Compact K274 (similar to K273). 27 hp, HST transmission with 3 cyl. diesel. 4-in-1 loader included.

Kioti/Daedong LK30 (this is like a simplified, basic version of CK30 with manual transmission). 30hp. Standard front-end loader. Doesn't have the frills and electronics as the TYM, but quite sturdy.

Both are 4WD.

My first question: is this enough horse-power or should we be going for something bigger. Obviously the bigger hp the more expensive and as it isn't a revenue raising machine for us we don't want to spend much more.

Can anyone advise on which would be the better tractor out of these two? I understand JD or Kubota etc. would be better again, but they are more costly here in Australia.

Has anyone have experience with similar properties and have recommendations. Ideally I would like something with more hp but can't afford it, but afraid I won't have enough grunt with a 27 or 30 hp tractor to get up and down the hills and do the jobs I want done. I know it will take more time to get the jobs done with a smaller tractor however as long as I can get them done it has to be better then doing it manually by hand.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[greggh]

I don't know that one would be better than the other. I was looking at a TYM when I first purchased my tractor. The dealer that I talked to said that the tractor was good but the manufacturer was difficult. I don't know really what that meant. But obviously he and the manufacturer did not agree on something. Anyway he changed brands of tractors he was selling. The Kioti I have heard nothing but good things. I am sure that someone has had a problem out there somewhere, I just haven't heard of any. They both should be able to do what you want size wise, as you said maybe just not as fast.

Do they make orchard versions of these tractors? That is where the exhaust is underneath the tractor instead of standing up above the hood. You probably know this I am just mentioning it.

As far as them being not as good as JD or Kobota, I am not sure that is a true statement. They are just not as well known or popular at this time.

Good luck on your purchase. It sounds like you have a plan.

 

[ToadHill]

I've had a Kioti for 4 years now and have over 900 hours on it. It hasn't caused me a bit of trouble and the only downtime I've had with it is to change the fluids. I can't speek for the TYM but I'm sure you'll hear from others on that brand.

 

[Charlesaf3]

For me, I'd put Kioti and TYM in different leagues - at this point, Kioti is almost one of the majors to my mind, and often a better value. I don't know enough about TYM, but I think of that as more of the bargain tractor realm.

I do think for what you are talking about that 30hp is too small. A 4n1 much under 40 hp is not that useful to my mind. On a bigger tractor its great.

For non-ground work the 30hp would be fine - you could hire out the other stuff.

As an aside, while this website is predominantly north american, there are a fair number of Ozzies on here who would be a great resource on specifics.

 

[austrac]

Thanks for the advice guys. If anyone in Victoria (Australia) knows of a good place to get a tractor, a good second-hand tractor would be fine, let me know. We are based in the Yarra Valley. We had bushfires around us earlier this year and there aren't many second-hand tractors around at the moment.

 

[whistlepig]

For me, I'd put Kioti and TYM in different leagues - at this point, Kioti is almost one of the majors to my mind, and often a better value. I don't know enough about TYM, but I think of that as more of the bargain tractor realm.

I do think for what you are talking about that 30hp is too small. A 4n1 much under 40 hp is not that useful to my mind. On a bigger tractor its great.

For non-ground work the 30hp would be fine - you could hire out the other stuff.

As an aside, while this website is predominantly north american, there are a fair number of Ozzies on here who would be a great resource on specifics.

I would agree that Kioti is becoming one of the major players. I have read many good reviews on them and Bobcat has inducted these tractors in to their brand name. Kioti isn't the bargain that it was. They cost about the same as Kubota and John Deere. Kioti is a premium tractor with the premium price now. Pick your poison. TYM seems to be going the right direction. Just too little info on them to make a judgment now.

 

[horsebroke]

Well, since several folks have chimed in with opinions about Kioti, but nobody's said anything about TYM, I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents...

I have a TYM T450 - 45HP, with FEL, bush-hog (I think you're referring to it as a "slasher"), post-hole digger/auger, 6-foot blade, and lots of other implements. Also, do some haying with it - so have a 10-foot swather and a baler. Did over 1,200 bales of alfalfa/grass hay this year off my 6 acres.

Never had a problem with it. Bought it new in 2006, now have 800+ hours and only downtime was when I accidently put GAS in it instead of Diesel. Luckily, I realized it right away, and shut it down. Got my other tractor (old John Deere 850) and pulled it out of the pasture, up onto the flatbed and got it to the dealer who drained and cleaned everything. Runs like a top. It's larger than your 27-30 HP that you're looking for, but as a brand, I'm very satisfied.

Like others have said, though, I don't know anything about the Kioti, so can't comment/compare.

I think EITHER is a good choice. Just make sure you get one with enough horsepower for FUTURE jobs, and, just as important, ensure you have a good dealer to support you after your purchase.

Thx and good luck

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

I suspect either of those would meet your stated needs and the TYM should run a few thousand less than the Kioti/Daedong.
Which one have you sat in/taken for a test drive? which "fits" better?
are you sure you need the 4 in 1 bucket?
you might be better off with a stock bucket and adding a grapple - or buying a light duty grapple later.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I would agree that Kioti is becoming one of the major players.

I think that judgement should be held until they actaully start selling a meaningful amount of tractors. According to their stock report (DAEDONG INDUSTRIAL CO.,LTD - Google Finance) they only built 15,000 machines in all of 2008 globaly. No doubt the quality of the product has improved, but they are still are not selling any real volumne and have a long way to go. Mahindra does about 80,000 and they still remain virtually unknown.

 

[whistlepig]

I think that judgement should be held until they actaully start selling a meaningful amount of tractors. According to their stock report (DAEDONG INDUSTRIAL CO.,LTD - Google Finance) they only built 15,000 machines in all of 2008 globaly. No doubt the quality of the product has improved, but they are still are not selling any real volumne and have a long way to go. Mahindra does about 80,000 and they still remain virtually unknown.

Could you please give us a meaningful amount of tractors? I would be interested to know.

 

[studor]

Mahindra does about 80,000 and they still remain virtually unknown

.
Bad example -- I think on a global basis, a lot more people know about Mahindra than a lot of other brands

 

[austrac]

Thanks for the advice guys. I am having the Kioti bought out to our small farm to test drive next week. However, after reading more and thinking about it, I have a feeling I should try and go for bigger hp (more around the 40 hp mark). If this is so I can't afford a new tractor that size so am scanning the second-hand tractors. There is very little around at the moment. My other concern buying second hand is I am not the most mechanically minded. I know the basics but can get baffled on bigger projects. Whereas buying new with a good dealer to service the machine and warranty feels safer. We have a field day close by next month with a number of tractor sellers so I will be attending. I know I will be excited by the new tractors and they usually have specials on the day if you purchase on the day. Decisions, decisions. This is quite a different purchase to regular vehicles such as cars as there are many other factors to consider.

 

[IslandTractor]

I've owned a small (20hp) and a larger (40hp) Kioti. Don't have experience with the TYMs but agree they are well regarded.

My points would be to echo Charlesaf3 with respect to the 4n1 bucket. Those buckets are heavy and you really need a pretty good sized loader (2000lb lift capacity and up) to make the most use of them. I'd also say that while I have such a 4n1 loader and find it useful, it would not be my first choice of implement to add after getting a standard bucket. If you have lots of woods to deal with then a grapple or grapple bucket would be more useful (and usually lighter and less expensive). A 4n1 would be a good choice for a construction bucket but not so great for land clearing. The "upside down" clamping with a 4n1 bucket is VERY inefficient compared to either type of grapple when picking up brush or wood.

With regard to the question of tractor size, it really depends on how much time you have. If this is a retirement or hobby farm project then there is not such a concern to get the most time efficient tractor. If it is commercial then obviously a larger tractor could be justified. I would not worry about being able to do the types of tasks you are likely to encounter with a 30hp tractor. The trouble with going above that is that the tractor frame size increases (as does price) and if you are working in an orchard the tractor size can be a limitation. I loved my 20hp tractor and it did just about everything I needed it to. When I took on responsibility for more land I upgraded to the 40hp and it is indeed much faster and more powerful but I lost the ability to do some simple tasks (like mow around the house) that I was able to do with the smaller machine.

 

[austrac]

Another question. I found a guy here in Australia selling new Agracats. I have been reading the discussion threads here and it appears that the company went bust. Does anyone know if they have they restarted again or moved ownership? Are they any good? It appears you get a lot for your money, but is it going to be a case of paying peanuts and getting a monkey? I am speaking to the dealer again this afternoon for more details.

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

I think the current Agracats (and maybe some of the old ones as well) are Jinma tractors.

 

[Charlesaf3]

It doesn't seem, from all I've read etc., that a Jinma is the ideal tractor for the non-mechanical minded. If you read on here you can form your own conclusions.

 

[austrac]

Found out more info. It is actually a Foton tractor. Either the FT304 or FT454.
FT304 comes with FEL, 6 ft slasher, 30 hp, 3 cyl. chinese copy of perkins motor.
FT454 comes with 4-in-1 FEL, 2 speed pto, slahser, Ricardo 4 cyl. engine, cabin.
Reviews on thiw website say it is a pretty good machine.

 

[IslandTractor]

Found out more info. It is actually a Foton tractor. Either the FT304 or FT454.
FT304 comes with FEL, 6 ft slasher, 30 hp, 3 cyl. chinese copy of perkins motor.
FT454 comes with 4-in-1 FEL, 2 speed pto, slahser, Ricardo 4 cyl. engine, cabin.
Reviews on thiw website say it is a pretty good machine.

In general, the Chinese tractors (and companies selling them) are not yet up to the quality of the Japanese, Korean and Indian manufacturers. I'm sure they will get there someday but there is a considerable quality and feature gap today. Obviously the Chinese tractors are capable and good values though. In the US another issue for the Chinese tractors has been relatively poor dealer support/parts etc. Not across the board but enough to make it a weak point compared to the others.

 

[zonta223]

Another question. I found a guy here in Australia selling new Agracats. I have been reading the discussion threads here and it appears that the company went bust. Does anyone know if they have they restarted again or moved ownership? Are they any good? It appears you get a lot for your money, but is it going to be a case of paying peanuts and getting a monkey? I am speaking to the dealer again this afternoon for more details.

Think you will find the name of the company in Australia is Agricat. The sell rebadged Foton tractors at great prices

 

[BrentD]

If you can find someone selling one of the re-badged LS/LG tractors, you can probably get a really great tractor for a lot less than the other guys. We bought a 43hp (4340C) 2008 Montana tractor in December of '08 and absolutely love it. Lots of tractor for the money. (Montana was made by LG through 09 but will be made by Kukje, another Korean company that previously sold in the US under the name Branson, for 2010)