Ford 2009 V-10

[nmu98]

Duane,

Not to get away from the original discussion, but I have been very impressed with the workmanship on my GMC. It is tightly made and very solid in feel. I have had a couple small interior rattles which I called to the dealer. They hopped on it right away and fixed them. One thing I can say so far: the dealer with whom I am working is on the ball in service and sales. I have owned Ford products for my entire driving career and bought many of them from our local dealer with whom I have a friendship, Despite this, the Ford dealers--even this one-- with whom I have worked have fallen far short of this GMC dealer in service. I must say this is the tightest, best fabricated truck I have owned. Not to say it is the most-heavily made, but it has the best workmanship that I have seen. No wonder GM is in protection, they replaced two small interior panels for me to fix my small interior problem, even though I did not think they needed to. The SM said it was the right way to do it and they do things the right way. He is pretty sharp and I believe him.

John M

How many miles do you have on your GMC? Mine was pretty tight for the first 15K ....

 

[RobJ]

I finally had my first issue with my V-10, and no it wasn't the spark plugs blowing out of the heads. Something called a DPFE (Differential Pressure Feedback EGR) sensor went bad, and apparently sensors of the 1990's vintage Ford cars and trucks were prone to going bad due to the aluminum housing. Newer sensors use a plastic housing.

I wasn't pleased at the $300 parts & labor bill; but that still is cheaper than a new truck, especially since I'm still happy with my rig.

I have a 99, 130,000 miles, it's a LB 4x4 CC with 315 tires. 10-11 around town, highway about 14. Pulling my tractor, couple times a year, about 9 and I pull it with the OD off. No problems, did change the plugs at 65k, so I'm due for it again.

I had the DPFE sensor fail on mine. To get the inspection I pulled the battery cable for a while, then the light would stay off for 20 miles or so. Did this for 2 years. Finally researched it and replaced it. $70 from an online dealer, easy change if I recall to. that was about 3 years ago. Last set of 315's I got 50k, they are on 8" rims and they are BFG KO's. HAven't touched the front end either. Did replace the speed sensor on the rear diff once. About $25. I thought the new 3v v10 came out about 2005. Never driven one but I bet they are nice.

 

[RobJ]

I didn't pay $8000 for my diesel option. I paid like $7,000.
and the V-10 is also an option. It costs at least $1,000 more than base gas price.

So with the $5,000 trade in advantage, we're down to a whopping $1,000 differential.

For $1000 over 100,000 miles, I get 25% more torque, better acceleration with trailer, no emissions inspections, no tune-ups, less stops at the gas station, dual batteries and the envy of all the gas truck guys. Not bad for 5 years of ownership.

Bunch of ways to look at this.

If you pay $7000 more for a diesel, one would EXPECT to get more on resale or tradein. But we know we all get ripped on a trade in, which usually nets the dealer more cash than a new sell. Ever wonder why there is a huge gap between trade in value, retail, and private seller? Of course you trade it in at one value and the dealer turns around and sells it at the retail price. I do understand the tax issue on trade ins.

How about the cost of money, not everyone can pay cash for a $40k+ truck. So you get to finance that $7000 for 5 years, 6 years, 7 years now?

Maint. costs, a lot more on a diesel, not to mention out of warranty repairs. Go price a new 6.4 in a crate...and the install...and oh yeah they have to REMOVE the cab to do most of the work on the engine.

So you keep it longer and then want to trade. So you have 2 ten year old trucks, same mileage, the diesel should get more money...see point #1.

Same deal, but the diesel is not in as good as condition as the gasser, is that diesel still going to bring more? If I'm buying a 10yo truck, do I go for nice looking? Or a beater with a diesel engine.

And lets look at the 6.4l, hmmm lots of problems, baggage, that remove cab thing. Who wants to buy a 10yo 6.4 that could go at any time. None of that with a gasser.

HEck when the 6.0 came out, folks were trading the new trucks back in for a good clean 7.3. That really helped the used market. I suspect early on some were looking for the refined 6.0 engine.

Oh and how much is that particle filter cost these days. And forget the 20+mpg mileage claims.

Bottom line is if you need the power of a diesel and have the means, go for it. If you don't, you can save some money and hassle. I know most people that have a 6.4 will not admit that the engine has problems. And I think they have probably cleaned up some of these problems like the 6.0. But I think the record is clear and this engine will be short lived.

I remember the old days when the 7.3 guys use to shout "there is no replacement for displacement" when it comes to power. Hehe, and then the 6.0 came out. oh and then the 6.4, I think the v10 is 6.8 or so? I forget.

 

[Builder]

Bunch of ways to look at this.

If you pay $7000 more for a diesel, one would EXPECT to get more on resale or tradein. But we know we all get ripped on a trade in, which usually nets the dealer more cash than a new sell. Ever wonder why there is a huge gap between trade in value, retail, and private seller? Of course you trade it in at one value and the dealer turns around and sells it at the retail price. I do understand the tax issue on trade ins.

That study was for dealer trade in value. It's the only way they could compile the statistics and that was by asking dealers what they give customers for a 100K diesel versus a 100K gas truck. If you sell privately, you'd probably do even better.

How about the cost of money, not everyone can pay cash for a $40k+ truck. So you get to finance that $7000 for 5 years, 6 years, 7 years now?

I don't know about you, but I'd guess nearly every truck purchased in the last 5 years has been a 0% or at least very low financing rate. Mine's financed at 0% for the last 2.5 years. Seems like 0% financing is the norm these days.The other issue is that nobody is making money with the savings they got buying gas truck right now. See stock market losses & IRA losses for the last 3 years.... pretty scary.

Maint. costs, a lot more on a diesel, not to mention out of warranty repairs. Go price a new 6.4 in a crate...and the install...and oh yeah they have to REMOVE the cab to do most of the work on the engine.

Why would there be any repair costs on a diesel engine if it has a 100K warranty? Maintenance costs are similar. Oil changes are more expensive on a diesel, but fewer in number. There's no emissions inspections on diesels in my state, so for a 5-6 year period, that's a $300 savings. The cab removal is a Ford related issue, not a GM or Dodge issue, and even if it did come off, it would be a covered warranty issue.

So you keep it longer and then want to trade. So you have 2 ten year old trucks, same mileage, the diesel should get more money...see point #1.

Same deal, but the diesel is not in as good as condition as the gasser, is that diesel still going to bring more? If I'm buying a 10yo truck, do I go for nice looking? Or a beater with a diesel engine.

And lets look at the 6.4l, hmmm lots of problems, baggage, that remove cab thing. Who wants to buy a 10yo 6.4 that could go at any time. None of that with a gasser.

HEck when the 6.0 came out, folks were trading the new trucks back in for a good clean 7.3. That really helped the used market. I suspect early on some were looking for the refined 6.0 engine.

Oh and how much is that particle filter cost these days. And forget the 20+mpg mileage claims.

Bottom line is if you need the power of a diesel and have the means, go for it. If you don't, you can save some money and hassle. I know most people that have a 6.4 will not admit that the engine has problems. And I think they have probably cleaned up some of these problems like the 6.0. But I think the record is clear and this engine will be short lived.

I remember the old days when the 7.3 guys use to shout "there is no replacement for displacement" when it comes to power. Hehe, and then the 6.0 came out. oh and then the 6.4, I think the v10 is 6.8 or so? I forget.

Now you're veering off into opinion territory somewhat and mostly Ford-related issues (cab removal). I agree that I would not touch either of those 2 Ford diesels, but remember, there's other brands of diesels out there.

Maybe there's no clear winner, but if it was a "tie" between gas & diesel, I'd take the diesel for the 30% greater torque and ease of towing heavy weight while I'm owning the same truck for 5-6 years.

 

[RobJ]

Now you're veering off into opinion territory somewhat and mostly Ford-related issues (cab removal). I agree that I would not touch either of those 2 Ford diesels, but remember, there's other brands of diesels out there.

I'm not veering off, the thread started talking about Fords. We all know what you think about Ford. I don't care about anything else..I would never buy anything else. JMHO

Try and get zero percent on a used vehicle (see great resale value).

How about trucks over 100k? And you don't see many if any trucks on a new car dealers lot over 100k.

Nevermind, you ahve an answer for all of those to. You and your chevy win.

 

[johnk]

Does anyone on here own a Ford V-10? I just traded my 2005 5.4 in for a new Ford 350 v-10 because I couldn't stand the lack of power in my 250 when I was pulling my trailerand all around driving. I couldn't justify buying a diesel because I only had 25K on my 2005. I have been averaging between 13.2 and 14.4 all around driving unloaded with 4:10 gears with the V-10 and it is brand new and not broken in yet. My 5.4 in my 250 got between 10 and 12.5 unloaded doing the same routes. Maybe the F150's get better mileage due to the aerodynamics but I couldn't take the lack of performance in the F250. I also heard they are having problems with the twin turbo diesels blowing O-Rings and radiators..

The post started with just a comparison between the 5.4, the V10 and the newer diesels in the Fords. Didn't mean to start a Brand war. I guess even my tires suck.... Almost like the Ag vs R-4's. But this is what I have and I love it!....They are all rust buckets in 10 years anyways and i don't really keep them that long or put many miles on them.. Very comfy inside also...

 

[Dargo]

Nevermind, you ahve an answer for all of those to. You and your chevy win.

Nah, a blind deaf mute would know he'd tell you that you bought the wrong truck if it didn't have (spoken with reverence) the Duramax and Allison. LOL The poor original poster didn't have a chance to get any other response from some if he bought any Ford or Dodge product!

To johnk, I've had a couple of the 5.4 powered vehicles and I really prefer the V10 6.8 over them. To make things even worse, I even strongly preferred the '06 Ford diesel with the 6.0 PSD over the '05 and '06 GM diesel offerings! A year later with a lot of towing and I'm still happy with my decision. That has to be impossible now, doesn't it? LOL If I'm not needing to tow over 10k, I would opt for the 6.8 gas over any of the diesel offerings unless I just had to hear that diesel sound every time I turned the key. As I mentioned earlier, after having both gas and diesel for decades I see that each has it's place. If you need the diesel, then you need it. If you don't, you're sure not saving any money by buying a diesel over a gas engine. I think you'll love your truck!

 

[johnk]

Thanks for the encouragement Dargo. Nothing left but the payments now. 8K less than a diesel. { Had to throw that in there and it felt good.}In all honesty, if I had the need and tow everyday it would be worth the extra $$$ to get a diesel. I would pay all the extra for the oil changes etc and purr down the road. I traded in my 2005 F250 with the 5.4 and it only had 25K on it. If I bought a diesel the injectors and cylinders would gum up because it wouldn't get hot enough after each short trip I take before I shut it off. That was my reasoning for buying my V-10....Pretty smoooth and quieeeeeeet too. Just having some fun here and nothing personal.

 

[Builder]

I'm not veering off, the thread started talking about Fords. We all know what you think about Ford.

Maybe not because about two posts ago I said if I had to buy a gas truck, I'd buy a Ford with a V-10 right here:

I agree, JCM. If I had to buy gas, it would be a Ford V-10 as they have the best gas truck engine out there right now.

How about trucks over 100k? And you don't see many if any trucks on a new car dealers lot over 100k.

Nevermind, you ahve an answer for all of those to. You and your chevy win.

Uhhhh, I don't own a chevy, but my last gas truck trade in was my '89 F-150 4x4 with 110,000 miles on it. Dealer gave me a whopping $1,100 for it as a trade on a gas powered truck I bought in '05. Then I traded my '99 Ford Superduty diesel in '07 on another new diesel truck and the dealer gave me $10,000.

 

[dsgsr]

About a month ago I bought a New '08 F550 dump with the 6.4L TBD & 5-speed Allison auto with 5.88 rear end. I get about 9.4 unloaded and 9.1 loaded. Are you folks suggesting the 6.4 is junk and to be replaced in 2-yrs?

David

 

[Builder]

About a month ago I bought a New '08 F550 dump with the 6.4L TBD & 5-speed Allison auto with 5.88 rear end. I get about 9.4 unloaded and 9.1 loaded. Are you folks suggesting the 6.4 is junk and to be replaced in 2-yrs?

David

That's great but your transmission isn't made by Allison, my friend.

I think you probably have 4.88's, not 5.88's.

The 6.4L isn't junk, but most other than the Ford loyal would agree, a 2 year run on a diesel engine is a disservice to the Ford buyer.

Welcome to the site, BTW. Hopefully your fuel economy will improve with break-in.

 

[jcmseven]

dsgsr,

Your truck is not junk. It has a solid engine and chassis. Ford likely will go to the "scorpion" 6.7L diesel in 2010 and the 6.4L will cease production. It is a solid engine and I think will serve you well in that chassis.

nmu98, you make a good point. I have 5200 on my truck right now, we will have to see in the next 10,000. My friend has a 2007 model with 30,000 on it and it is similarly tight. I hope it stays this way, but we just don't know.

John M

 

[Diamondpilot]

About a month ago I bought a New '08 F550 dump with the 6.4L TBD & 5-speed Allison auto with 5.88 rear end. I get about 9.4 unloaded and 9.1 loaded. Are you folks suggesting the 6.4 is junk and to be replaced in 2-yrs?

David

I am guess it has the Ford Torque Shift Tranny, not a Allison. Its a good tranny with a good reputation and I can tell you from personal experience with my 2 diesels its tough. I have over 500HP in both trucks and its not missed a beat. Cant say that about some of the others tranny offerings.

Not sure about the rear end gearing but 5.88 seems awful low. I am guessing its 4.88. I have seen them in Fords before.

Chris

 

[Builder]

Ford doesn't use Allison transmission until they get to the F-650/750.

That's about the 10th fordie I've run into that insisted their Superduty "has an Allison in it". I even had to teach one up by actually sliding under his truck with him and showing him it had a 5 speed Ford transmission in it.

He was madder than a wet hen when he found out it wasn't an Allison. He said he "ordered it special from Ford with an Allison in it".

Another guy from my own framing crew has an F-250 with a V-10 and told me there's "an order code on the Ford website with a special option for an Allison transmission upgrade from the Torqslift tranny". I told him there's no such upgrade. 250-550 is all the same automatic transmission.

 

[Dargo]

I am guess it has the Ford Torque Shift Tranny, not a Allison.

I'm perfectly content with the Torque Shift as opposed to an mini Alice. My neighbor has a Ferris ZTR with a Cat diesel in it. He speaks of it as if it's a D11, similar to the transmission stretches. I just go "wow, cool". Whatever makes you happy is what's best for you.

 

[Hematite]

I'm perfectly content with the Torque Shift as opposed to an mini Alice. My neighbor has a Ferris ZTR with a Cat diesel in it. He speaks of it as if it's a D11, similar to the transmission stretches. I just go "wow, cool". Whatever makes you happy is what's best for you.

Yes, the power of some peoples imagination is amazing, isn't it!

 

[dsgsr]

You folks are correct. My 550 has the Torqshift 5-speed and the 4.88 gears with the limited slip. Guess I should stop listening to the local shade-tree mechanics about the tranny being a re-named Allison

David

 

[Builder]

You folks are correct. My 550 has the Torqshift 5-speed and the 4.88 gears with the limited slip. Guess I should stop listening to the local shade-tree mechanics about the tranny being a re-named Allison

David

It's OK. You're not the only Ford guy that needed help understanding what's underneath his truck. Happens to GM & Dodge guys, too.

Here's an interesting article with an automatic transmission shaft size comparison at the bottom. Information is a powerful resource to help us all make good decisions!

http://www.ci.soldotna.ak.us/archive/archive_pdf/2006/2006%20Resolutions/06RES019.pdf

 

[RobJ]

Uhhhh, I don't own a chevy, but my last gas truck trade in was my '89 F-150 4x4 with 110,000 miles on it. Dealer gave me a whopping $1,100 for it as a trade on a gas powered truck I bought in '05. Then I traded my '99 Ford Superduty diesel in '07 on another new diesel truck and the dealer gave me $10,000.

What are you expecting out of a 20 yo trade? But you can't value a "trade in" by the dollar they give you for it. If you are trading in on new or something else the dealers value the financing, price of a new car, etc. Even the undercoating! Can't just go by a number.

If you got $10,000 for trade on one, but piad the full price, out of one pocket and into the other. I know but that didn't happen, you paid $38 for a new 07 SD.

And I'm pretty sure you owned a Dmax in the last year or so to not split hairs, do I need to look it up. I don't keep up with what Builder drives this week.

 

[RobJ]

Thanks for the encouragement Dargo. Nothing left but the payments now. 8K less than a diesel. { Had to throw that in there and it felt good.}In all honesty, if I had the need and tow everyday it would be worth the extra $$$ to get a diesel. I would pay all the extra for the oil changes etc and purr down the road. I traded in my 2005 F250 with the 5.4 and it only had 25K on it. If I bought a diesel the injectors and cylinders would gum up because it wouldn't get hot enough after each short trip I take before I shut it off. That was my reasoning for buying my V-10....Pretty smoooth and quieeeeeeet too. Just having some fun here and nothing personal.

Exactly, there are a lot of us that "get it". My little 5000# tow comes home twice a year. 250 miles round trip. $7-8k more for a little more of this and a little more of that is not worth it. If I knew the 5.4 would get me a couple more MPG, I'd take that motor. My truck gets driven 10 miles each day...round trip...to a park in ride!