3000 series or 4000 series?

fazel · May 3, 2009

I've been reading these forums for the last week and I've learned a lot. What a wonderful resource!

I'll be purchasing a tractor in the near future. We recently purchased 25 acres and a house adjacent to roughly 15 acres that we already own. Around 10 acres are open field, half of which I've rented out to a farmer to make hay. The other five I'll mow with the zero turn once we move in. The remaining 15 acres are wooded, some densely with maintained (mowed) trails in areas. There's also a wooded bottom that's sort of overgrown (lots of small trees) where a creek that runs through.

My question is which series of tractor to purchase. I'm looking at either the 3000 or 4000 series, probably the upper end of the 3000 or the lower end of the 4000. I'll be maintaining and possibly expanding the trail system, cleaning out the bottom, plowing snow, gardening, and in the future I may choose mow the other five acres with larger pull behind mower.

I tend to agree with those that suggest buying the most tractor for your money, even if that means adding implements later. However, there are several questions that you folks might be able to answer that could help greatly.

- Can I fit both the 3000 and 4000 series in a standard garage with the FEL attached?

- Can I do significantly more with the 4000 series? My concern is that I'm going to run into jobs that are either easily done by both, or require a larger machine than either. Hard to predict, I know, but if this were the case than I'd buy the smaller tractor.

- How does the maneuverability compare?

- And of course, price. I've read that people are able to get these tractors for 15-20% less than MSRP. A dealer yesterday quoted me around 10% less than MSRP on a 4320, and this was at a big event. Can I expect 15-20%, or is this more of an exception than the rule?

Thanks in advance,

--
andrew

sunnyside360 · May 3, 2009

Andrew, I have both 3720 (cab) and 4320 open station tractors. The 3720 is 2 yrs old and is used mainly to finish mow about 5 acres here at my house and another 1.5 acre at our old farm homestead down the road. In the winter it is used to remove snow from my driveway and around the garages using a 59 snow blower. I've driven and/or owned tractors and equipment for over 55 yrs and the 3720 seems like the perfect rig for that type of work.
The 4320 is about one yr old and is used primarily for restoring (bush hogging) the old fields which haven't been farmed for several years. It's also used for FEL work, plowing, tilling, sickle bar, box blading, and soon to be backhoe work (new 485 BH and grapple coming within next two weeks). I have to say this seems like the ideal rig for all this type of work.
If I were to have only one, it would have to be the 4320 just because it will do all that the 3720 will do and more (and faster).

I got about 15% off msrp on each tractor but I had to "squeeze the turnip" to get it. There are three JD dealers that I dealt with to get the best price. I used the online "build your own" John Deere tractor to get quotes and eventually the best prices. Good luck to you in your venture.

nmu98 · May 3, 2009

What is a standard garage? Is it it an 8' door? My 3720 would fit in an 8' door. The cab easier than the open station. This is not an easy question, because they both have benifits. You can do more with a 4x20 due to more weight and more power, but they are larger and require more space for the tractor and larger implements. With some restrictions, the 3x20 series will do most of what a 4x20 will do, just slower. In hydro, neither shines at ground engaging equipment. I would consider the Ag tires only on these as you will want max traction and the r-4's are not great in the dirt.

Ask your dealer to let you test each at your house and see what fits and feels better. Some people think the 3x20 are too narrow, but I think its easily managed by the driver and low rear tire pressure. The high rear tire pressure tends to bouce around each of the tractors you are looking at.

Good luck!

sunnyside360 · May 3, 2009

My 3720 cab tractor with smaller R4 tires just fits in my garage which is 7-1/2 ft high (less than 1 inch to spare). The 4320 open station with R4 tires doesn't fit because of the ROPS height so I have to fold down the ROPS. Actually, I rarely put it up unless working on steep slopes. I worry about forgetting to lower the ROPS prior to entering the garage.
I would not assume a 3720 open station is lower than a cab -- might be higher.

Duffster · May 3, 2009

nmu98 said:
What is a standard garage?

Typical residential garage door is 7' tall.

fazel · May 3, 2009

Thanks everyone for the replies. The garage door question can easily be solved by going over to the house with a tape measure. I believe both would fit, even with a loader. Of course, I could be wrong. I really would like some guidance as to whether or not the same sort of negotiating occurs when purchasing one of these tractors as I would expect occurs when purchasing a car. I'm assuming this is the case.

Are there sometimes better deals on one line over the other? I've read, somewhere on this site I believe, that several individuals have secured the 40 Twenty series tractors at 15-20% off.

I'm leaning towards the 3270 right now. My father has a 4310, which I believe is similar in size but has less horsepower. I can probably get another attachment for the cost of going up to the 4320. The first dealer I spoke with, who I really liked, suggested the 30 Twenty series rather than the 40 Twenty after discussing the property. The maneuverability advantages are attractive as well. But, my worry is that I will regret not purchasing the bigger tractor ($30,000) later...

--
andrew

fazel · May 3, 2009

Sorry to break this into two replies, but I have a couple of more questions.

- What's the difference between eHydro and Auto HST (sorry if this is an ignorant question)?

- Is getting the larger R4 tires advisable?

- What are the differences between the two rotary tillers (655, 665)?

- My salesman recommended getting a blade for snow. This is a much cheaper solution than the 59 inch snowblower. I plan on gardening as well. Is there an argument for getting the snowblower and renting a tiller as I will only need the tiller once/twice a year?

If we do purchase the 3270, I might be able to afford a second attachment (I will be getting to 300CX loader as well), and it would probably come down to either the tiller or the snowblower.

Thanks so much...

--
andrew

jcmseven · May 3, 2009

Andrew,

We all have our opinions, and you really cannot go "wrong" here. I have had a 4520 and two 3720's, each of which have been excellent tractors. If you are wanting the most for your money, that would be a 4120 v. a 3720. The 4120 is powerful and has much greater loader capacity and frame/chassis weight for bigger jobs. It is much more tractor than a 3720. That said, not everyone needs so much machine. The 3720 would tread lighter and is easier to haul around on a trailer if needed. It does NOT take up appreciably less garage space, and I think either would fit well with the ROPS folded (both mine did). The AutoHST merely moves the Forward/Reverse function to a stalk mounted lever v. having two hydro pedals. Some people like it, it would be six of one; half dozen of another for me. The R4 tires are the best choice if you have any finish mowing or are going to be doing any running on manicured grass with your machine. They are the best comprimise between traction and wear and light treading, but they do not get good traction in mud or icy snow. I went with R4's mainly because I trade tractors often and they seem the more-popular choice in my locale for resale, but if you are planning to keep the machine and absolute traction is your need, you would notice a major difference having R1 tires on either machine. As for the front snowblade, I had a 72" boom blade for my 300cx loader, and it is a LOAD. It weighes around 500# and sits way far out on the loader boom. I found it a cumbersome way to move snow, but it is convenient to mount and a snap to angle. We get snow where I live in winter, but not enough to justify a snow blower. The 72" blade caused the front end of the 3720 to wash around a bit when angled, but I doubt it would budge a 4120 front end. My vote unless you have to transport the tractor a lot, or need to fit into really snug places (which neither machine does very well) is to go with the 4120. It is a lot more machine for essentially little to no more $$$$$.

John M

jenkinsph · May 4, 2009

With 40 acres total to maintain I would go with a 4520 or 4720 cab tractor and a good riding mower for the lawn. This would provide you with a heated cab in winter and for the most part a good sized platform to add to. This is the cheapest way to go (do it right the first time). I would also buy 6 ft. equipment for the most part and have a tractor shed built if necessary.

Just to clarify, as so many people will say the smaller tractor works great, read through the threads, most of the people trade up to larger tractors not smaller.

Depending on where you live I would expect 15 to 20% off list price and still get the 0% financing for 36 months.

Have fun with your adventure,

Steve

AKfish · May 4, 2009

I would have to cast my vote with jenkinsph and jcmseven - 4000 series.

Forty acres is a significant "project area" and depending upon the direction you might go in the future with the property - a more capable machine for the same $$$ investment makes the most sense - IMO.

The cab option for a 3720 is a $7,000 - $8,000 expense. You might find during your discussions with JD dealer's that the cost for a non-cab 4000 series might just pencil out pretty even with the cab 3720.

For comparison's sake - jcmseven mentioned looking at a 4120 vs 3720. I agree that would be a better "apples vs apples" evaluation. Compare the loader capabilities, the 3pt, the hydraulic capacity for the similar Hp machines.

I move alot of snow every winter... with a 7' rear blade and a 6' front end loader bucket. I would love a snow blower!

It's faster and I wouldn't have to deal with strategically locating all my "hay stacks" of snow (I've still got 6-7 small piles yet to melt) out of the way of the driveway, etc. But, there's no way I'd spend $4,000 on a nice blower and end up looking like the "man from planet Hoth" with serious hypothermia! No cab - no blower.

I use my roto-tiller 6-7 times a year. I'm currently clearing more trees to increase my hay/pasture acreage. The tiller saves me time and fuel over a disc harrow and/or a plow with the newly cleared land.

Whatever your final decision - you can't go wrong - you're buying a new tractor!!!

AKfish

nmu98 · May 4, 2009

sunnyside360 said:
My 3720 cab tractor with smaller R4 tires just fits in my garage which is 7-1/2 ft high (less than 1 inch to spare). The 4320 open station with R4 tires doesn't fit because of the ROPS height so I have to fold down the ROPS. Actually, I rarely put it up unless working on steep slopes. I worry about forgetting to lower the ROPS prior to entering the garage.
I would not assume a 3720 open station is lower than a cab -- might be higher.

The open station is higher. My 3720 open station with the larger R-4's had 1 inch of clearance on an 8 foot door. My cab has tons of room...

Spudland_Dave · May 4, 2009

Honestly, I would suggest either a 3520 or stepping up to a 4120....With the work I've done around the house I dont remember one time wishing i had more HP....I break traction WAY before running out of steam....thats why I'd reccomend the 4120...UNLESS you'd be doing very PTO intensive work....then I could see the 3720 being an OK choice.

Definetly, without a doubt, get a Cab...

Also, instead of the overpriced Joke of a blower (the 59") look at the 74" Frontier 3pt Blower...if they want too much (i've never officially priced out the 74" Frontier Blower), Kubota has the same blower at a great price point....

Johndeere3720 · May 4, 2009

My dad has a 3720 with a 300X loader. When we got 3 feet of snow up here in NW Oregon, I wished it had a cab and snow blower. It took two days to dig out the steep 3/4 mile driveway in 20 degree weather. We had to equip it with tire chains on the front and it worked great. I only lasted an hour until I couldnt feel my hands. Then I traded off with my step mom and sat in front of the pellet stove for 15 minutes. We tried to use the CT322 Deere skidsteer but I almost slid it into the new fence along the driveway. Never use rubber tracks on a hill with a base of 2" of ice on gravel. 0 traction and chains over the tracks hurt the drive trane. Can you believe im only 13!

jeffster · May 4, 2009

i have a 3520 and my neighbor has a 4000 series. Some things to consider:

1. 4000 series is much louder
2. 4000 in my opinion is much better for tilling, heavy blading, etc. Neighbor just lets me use his tractor if I want to use his tiller. We have mostly heavy clay soil here so you need all the power you can get, even to box blade, though my 3520 does pretty good with a blade as long as the soil is dry.
3. 3000 is nice as it fits in my dump trailer and is easy to cart around if need be.
4. I have no problems harrowing the fields, cleaning the barn, etc. Loader capacity with the 300cx is pretty good. Overall my tractor works fantastic as a barn utility tractor.
5. R4s absolutely suck if you live anywhere that has decent rainfall. I am in SW Washington and the R4s are totally useless in the field or even yard if it has been raining. I really wish I would have went with R1s instead when I bought. However, R4s are nice when commuting between properties on the main paved road (I usually just drive the tractor the 3 miles instead of loading it in the trailer).

Now, if I had to do it again, I would have went bigger. However, the 3000 is a perfect size for working between my fir trees, so i guess if I had to do it again, I would have bought a lottery ticket and bought every size of traffic.

Johndeere3720 · May 4, 2009

Would the new R4s work any better? My dad has a 3720 with R4s to. I loved the R4s on pavement but they have their problems. My dad should have left the R1s on that were originally on it. He wanted the width though. I also hear that R4s are the best for loader work. New R4 tires? - TractorByNet.com

jeffster · May 4, 2009

jeffster said:
Now, if I had to do it again, I would have went bigger. However, the 3000 is a perfect size for working between my fir trees, so i guess if I had to do it again, I would have bought a lottery ticket and bought every size of traffic.

traffic being tractor of course. Stupid spellcheck. Heh.

fazel · May 5, 2009

I want to thank everyone for responding. I don't think that I'm particularly unique in my desire to "do it right" the first time, and I'm hopeful that this thread will be particularly helpful to those in similar situations. Purchasing a tractor is a significant investment, and it is apparent that "trading up" later is a costly enterprise. I would love to get a cab as well, but I fear the cost is too great, especially if I choose the 4520. The dealer suggested a fabric type enclosure that might suffice in winter conditions for much less.

My sense is that the R4 tires are a compromise between the R1 tires, which will likely tear up the trails that I hope to maintain, and the turf tires that won't allow me to do the type of work that I hope to complete. As with all compromises, their is a little gained and some lost as well. It's a bit like one of the previous posters commented, if they had their way they would have purchased both a 3000 series and a 4000 series tractor. We all have other things that require our attention financially. To be honest, I feel lucky that I'm in the position to purchase a tractor of this quality, considering where I've come from and the financial quandary the majority of the country finds itself in today.

I talked to the dealer today, and he quoted me around 14% below MSRP for a 4520 with the 400CX loader. I let the dealer know that I've been heavily involved in terms of research and that I'm aware that many have indicated their ability to get between 15-20% off of MSRP. I believe (read I'm hopeful) that he will be able to sell in this range as well. Regardless, I owe a great deal to this community.

Thanks so much.

--
andrew

jenkinsph · May 5, 2009

Andrew, good luck with your decision

I recently purchased a new 4520 cab tractor 2009 and got a little over 18% off msrp. Not only is the cab more comfortable for the operator but it also keeps the internals in good condition too.

Steve

AKfish · May 5, 2009

fazel said:
I would love to get a cab as well, but I fear the cost is too great, especially if I choose the 4520. The dealer suggested a fabric type enclosure that might suffice in winter conditions for much less.

To be honest, I feel lucky that I'm in the position to purchase a tractor of this quality, considering where I've come from and the financial quandary the majority of the country finds itself in today.

I talked to the dealer today, and he quoted me around 14% below MSRP for a 4520 with the 400CX loader. I let the dealer know that I've been heavily involved in terms of research and that I'm aware that many have indicated their ability to get between 15-20% off of MSRP. I believe (read I'm hopeful) that he will be able to sell in this range as well.

andrew

Andrew; what happened to a 4320..?? JD offers a cabbed 4320, too. There's a couple thousand difference between the 4520 and the 4320.

Yes, indeed... count your lucky stars!!

Your dealer can still keep the light's on and make payroll if he makes the decision to sell you a tractor for 20% below MSRP. Especially if he already has a machine that's sitting on the lot and he's been paying interest on it! However, if he won't - and it's really important to you - don't be hesitant to use the door.

That said; you will need a good dealer in the future and it's very important not to get into a contest of wills over every last dollar... 'cause there may come a time down the road when he can decide to give you a pass as well.

Good luck.

AKfish

Spudland_Dave · May 5, 2009

AKfish said:
Andrew; what happened to a 4320..?? JD offers a cabbed 4320, too. There's a couple thousand difference between the 4520 and the 4320.

Andrew its your call, but I'd downgrade the HP and get the cab....you wont regret it. I Cant recall any threads here saying "I should have got an open station"...

Honestly shop other colors, mentioning "I can get a kubota for $$" really made the pencil sharpen up. At the end, the dealer wouldnt go down in dollars, but started throwing in stuff...for example my Weel Weights, Radio Mount Kit, and rear work lights were "Free", and you can usually get a Filter Pak thrown in there too...some people get the first service thrown in, I elected the DIY route...