Starting from scratch; basic advice needed

SarahM · Apr 16, 2009

Hi,

I need advice about a first tractor. Here is my situation:

I have recently taken over management of my family's 455 acre farm in South Central Indiana. My father farmed this land until his death last summer. Since then I've been spending most of my time there trying to manage the place/get it cleaned up. The original plan was for my mother to sell the place and move, so my father sold all his cattle and large equipment before he died... but somewhere in the past 9 months or so she decided she didn't want to leave the place, and I fell in love with it and decided I'd like to farm as much of it as possible.

The farm consists of about 65 acres of good creek bottom, 40 acres of low pasture, 55 acres of buckshot high ground with a hardpan problem that is sometimes cropped but more often pastured, the rest in timber and buildings. Right now we have a share arrangement worked out with a neighbor on the creek bottom crops (that was in place before my father died). Low pasture/barn/concrete pad is rented out to feeder operation. This summer a few of the higher buckshot acres will be planted in corn, but most will be let out for grazing.

I believe it is possible to turn a slight profit on the place by continuing to share out all the farming, but I would like to do some of it myself. Right now, I can't even bush-hog, because I have no tractor at all. I don't think it would be practical for me to try to do all the farming myself, because right now I own no equipment. I am also a small woman in my forties, so my upper body strength is limited. I'd like to purchase a tractor that would be fairly easy for me to use and have serviced that would let me do *some* of the farming. I know very little about real farming and next to nothing about equipment, but I'm not afraid of hard work and love being outside in all kinds of weather. My hunch is that the most practical thing to do would be to continue to share out the bottom lands and set my sights on the high ground.

At the very least I need something I can bush-hog with. Some of the areas that need this are fairly hilly. I'd also like to be able to plow us out when it snows. I'd also like to try to run a small cow/calf operation on the top ground by myself, if I am able. I am guessing the most challenging part of this would be winter feeding. I'd need to be able to make hay. The road up to the top ground is very steep, and can be dangerous in icy weather. The tractor would need to be easy to steer and shift, because I don't have a lot of arm strength. (I can't pull-start a chainsaw, among other things... but I still cut a lot of wood. I'd rather take twice as long to do something as a much stronger person than not do it at all.

I'm guessing 9/10 of the people who have read this far are thinking I'm completely nuts. I probably am, but would still appreciate any advice anyone has to offer. So far I'm enjoying the business end of running the farm, general building maintenance and light cleanup work, but would really like to be able to do more of the real work.

newbury · Apr 16, 2009

SarahM said:
Hi,

I need advice about a first tractor. Here is my situation:

I have recently taken over management of my family's 455 acre farm in South Central Indiana. My father farmed this land until his death last summer. Since then I've been spending most of my time there trying to manage the place/get it cleaned up. The original plan was for my mother to sell the place and move, so my father sold all his cattle and large equipment before he died... but somewhere in the past 9 months or so she decided she didn't want to leave the place, and I fell in love with it and decided I'd like to farm as much of it as possible.

The farm consists of about 65 acres of good creek bottom, 40 acres of low pasture, 55 acres of buckshot high ground with a hardpan problem that is sometimes cropped but more often pastured, the rest in timber and buildings. Right now we have a share arrangement worked out with a neighbor on the creek bottom crops (that was in place before my father died). Low pasture/barn/concrete pad is rented out to feeder operation. This summer a few of the higher buckshot acres will be planted in corn, but most will be let out for grazing.

I believe it is possible to turn a slight profit on the place by continuing to share out all the farming, but I would like to do some of it myself. Right now, I can't even bush-hog, because I have no tractor at all. I don't think it would be practical for me to try to do all the farming myself, because right now I own no equipment. I am also a small woman in my forties, so my upper body strength is limited. I'd like to purchase a tractor that would be fairly easy for me to use and have serviced that would let me do *some* of the farming. I know very little about real farming and next to nothing about equipment, but I'm not afraid of hard work and love being outside in all kinds of weather. My hunch is that the most practical thing to do would be to continue to share out the bottom lands and set my sights on the high ground.

At the very least I need something I can bush-hog with. Some of the areas that need this are fairly hilly. I'd also like to be able to plow us out when it snows. I'd also like to try to run a small cow/calf operation on the top ground by myself, if I am able. I am guessing the most challenging part of this would be winter feeding. I'd need to be able to make hay. The road up to the top ground is very steep, and can be dangerous in icy weather. The tractor would need to be easy to steer and shift, because I don't have a lot of arm strength. (I can't pull-start a chainsaw, among other things... but I still cut a lot of wood. I'd rather take twice as long to do something as a much stronger person than not do it at all.

I'm guessing 9/10 of the people who have read this far are thinking I'm completely nuts. I probably am, but would still appreciate any advice anyone has to offer. So far I'm enjoying the business end of running the farm, general building maintenance and light cleanup work, but would really like to be able to do more of the real work.

ASSUMing all you've written is true (I only write this because this is the internet)-
0. You are completely nuts - anyone who wants to work and not let the government take care of them is nuts

1. Form a relationship with someone who has upper-body strength and knows about tractors - this will be needed for wrestling attachments on and off also.
2. Check the threads here such as http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/141051-need-some-help-choosing-tractor.html

3. Read as much as possible here
4. Check all your local tractor dealers - unless you luck out in #1 you'll need a great dealer for support
5. Check farm auctions in your area - lots of stuff is going CHEAP and if you've done 1 thru 4 above you should be able to jump on something.
6. Don't believe all the "orange versus red" "green vs blue" "mahindra vs Yanmar" wars here. A lot will rely on your local dealer/maintenance.

Good luck and welcome.

irvingj · Apr 16, 2009

First of all, I commend you on your attitude & courage... "You're a better man than I, Gungadine" comes to mind....

Other than saying that I feel a snowblower, though expensive, is a more efficient way to handle snow (than a plow), I'll defer to those with actual farming experience for advice-- but I'll be following your posts with interest, and second what newbury's already suggested: dealer support is big, really big.

Best of luck, and I'm just a tad jealous... wife's family's from NE Missouri; brother still farms. Sometimes think of retiring to that area....

Oh- and yes, read a lot here- great info!!

Farmwithjunk · Apr 16, 2009

Where abouts in "south central Indiana"? (Name of closest city/town) I live in Northern Kentucky, just south of Louisville. (Not that far away maybe???)

Any plans on hiring a helper? A GOOD, experienced farm kid can be a big help.

Any thoughts on a budget for tractor/equipment?

Location can play a significant part in deciding what to do with a farm. (see question #1) When you speak of "farming it yourself", what do you intend to grow?

I farmed a small (relative to most farms today) place for near 40 years. Most years, until my son was grown enough to be of some help, I did most of the work by myself. That precludes using "raw muscle" for many chores. You gotta use the tools of the trade rather than just horsing stuff around. A tractor with a loader is VERY usefull. Don't go with one that's too small. Start the search by looking at local dealers. See who's there to help you once the tractor isn't new any longer. THEN start narrowing the model choices down.

Feel free to PM me with any questions. I'm an old school farmer who happens to enjoy seeing people stay ON the farm. I'd be more than willing to help in any way possible. My wife is a little woman herself, and she grew up on a tobacco farm. She could no doubt add some usefull advice towards your situation.

Good luck!

laen64 · Apr 16, 2009

Wonderful I love your spirit! Get a large tractor with cab and all the fun attachments you can afford. Do allow others to share in the fun but enjoy the life.

God Bless You.

Soundguy · Apr 16, 2009

Bottom line.. sounding like a 4wd ( easy steering.. and safer on hills.. better traction in snow.. good for when you have a heavy load in the loader ) tractor, with loader, and at least 50hp.. so you can remove round bales. ( rear spear or fel.. )

depending on the area.. 6' or 8' mower.

If you stepped this up to about 70hp.. that would be a 10' mower.. but then.. a 70hp 4x4 with loader is gonna be a chunk of change more than a 50.hp job.

Might get an older used ag tractor for the heavy stuff.. say something in the 60-100hp range.. to move hay and pull a big mower.. and get a smaller CUT sized 4x4 with loader for the smaller utility and daily work... say.. early 40's hp?

soundguy

soundguy

linearxs · Apr 16, 2009

At the end of the day i think this all boils down to money. If you can afford it I would do it, if you can't why risk lossing the land.

greggh · Apr 16, 2009

Welcome to TBN. You are sounding like a true pioneer. Starting off on an adventure in which your knowledge is limited. I congratulate you on your courage.

It looks by your description that you have a lot of land still in wooded areas. Over 200 acres if I read your post correctly. If some of your best acreage is leased out, you might consider creating new crop acreage in some of the more desireable areas. One of the suggestions provided was to get some knowledgeable help. If you are not in a hurry, as I understood by your post, a good helper will go a long way toward success. They can help with the purchasing of a tractor and implements, cultivating and planting the crops. And of course you will be learning as the projects go by.

I envy you and the road ahead. It should be an exiciting time. You will get flustered at times, but still learning about the land and nature is a lasting experience.

You have started off in a good direction by posting on this forum. It has a lot of good people with great experience and advice. Lots of luck and ask whatever questions you need. There is always someone that has already been down that path and can give some good advice.

flusher · Apr 16, 2009

SarahM said:
Hi,

I need advice about a first tractor. Here is my situation:

I
The farm consists of about 65 acres of good creek bottom, 40 acres of low pasture, 55 acres of buckshot high ground with a hardpan problem that is sometimes cropped but more often pastured, the rest in timber and buildings. Right now we have a share arrangement worked out with a neighbor on the creek bottom crops (that was in place before my father died). Low pasture/barn/concrete pad is rented out to feeder operation. This summer a few of the higher buckshot acres will be planted in corn, but most will be let out for grazing.

I believe it is possible to turn a slight profit on the place by continuing to share out all the farming, but I would like to do some of it myself. Right now, I can't even bush-hog, because I have no tractor at all. I don't think it would be practical for me to try to do all the farming myself, because right now I own no equipment. I am also a small woman in my forties, so my upper body strength is limited. I'd like to purchase a tractor that would be fairly easy for me to use and have serviced that would let me do *some* of the farming. I know very little about real farming and next to nothing about equipment, but I'm not afraid of hard work and love being outside in all kinds of weather. My hunch is that the most practical thing to do would be to continue to share out the bottom lands and set my sights on the high ground.

At the very least I need something I can bush-hog with. Some of the areas that need this are fairly hilly. I'd also like to be able to plow us out when it snows. I'd also like to try to run a small cow/calf operation on the top ground by myself, if I am able. I am guessing the most challenging part of this would be winter feeding. I'd need to be able to make hay. The road up to the top ground is very steep, and can be dangerous in icy weather. The tractor would need to be easy to steer and shift, because I don't have a lot of arm strength. (I can't pull-start a chainsaw, among other things... but I still cut a lot of wood. I'd rather take twice as long to do something as a much stronger person than not do it at all.

I'm guessing 9/10 of the people who have read this far are thinking I'm completely nuts. I probably am, but would still appreciate any advice anyone has to offer. So far I'm enjoying the business end of running the farm, general building maintenance and light cleanup work, but would really like to be able to do more of the real work.

Finding a tractor that you can drive and maneuver is not that difficult, assuming you stick to "modern" tractor designs with power steering, hydrostatic or shuttle-shift transmission, four wheel drive (4WD) and probably an air-conditioned cab for those brutal mid-West summers (I grew up in Missouri and know what it's like).

I assume we're talking about the 40 acre plot. If you plan to bush hog that much acreage and want to do it in 1 or 2 days, you'll need a large hog (10-15 ft wide) and a 70-100 hp tractor to run it. To give you an idea of seat time, I mow about 8 of my 10 acres of flat pasture land with a 54 hp (engine) Mahindra 5525 tractor and a 6-ft wide Hawkline hog in about 4 hours of pretty leisurely driving. It would take me at least 3 days to do 40 acres at my pace (I'm 67 years old and limit myself to 4-5 hours of seat time on my 5525 at one stretch).

Your larger challenge will be implements--specifically having the strength to get them hitched to and unhitched from the tractor. You'll definitely need to have one of the several versions of quick attach fixtures for the 3pt hitch to minimize the hassle in getting your bush-hog attached.

You say you need to be able to make hay. I assume you mean you as in yourself.
Haymaking will be a challenge. I'm a hay farmer-in-training right now and plan to put 6 of my 10 acres into winter oats this Fall. It's more of a hobby since I don't have any large animals to feed.

You need to know a lot about plant agronomy and haying machinery to do it right. I've been accumulating used haying equipment for about 18 months now and probably have $6K invested in that stuff so far.

This is my 5525 tractor with an old Allis Chalmers 80T sicklebar hay mower I bought from a neighbor for $150 and refurbished. The green thing is a John Deere 350 side delivery hay rake ($800 used).

For tilling I have this old, refurbished Minneapolis Moline 13-ft wide wheel disc ($600)

Planting is done with this old Minneapolis Moline P3-6 grain drill ($275) I rebuilt that dispenses both seed and fertilizer simultaneoulsy.

Baling is handled with this Massey Ferguson MF-124 baler ($2000) that makes small 50-lb square bales

Whatever you decide to do, good luck in you endeavor. You have a real challenge ahead.

WantedWolf · Apr 16, 2009

Go for it, build a good life. Congratulations.

Look for local farm help, sounds like your in an area with lots of farms, is there lots of competition?

???Try to get any removable implements, with dollies/carts for easy removal.
Just drop onto cart secure a few pins and drive away. Save on the wrestling. My wife could never lift off the snowplow, but using the cart she can detatch/attatch in a minute.

Lots of good ideas here on TBN, its about half of my confidence.

Wish you luck.

SarahM · Apr 16, 2009

newbury said:
ASSUMing all you've written is true (I only write this because this is the internet)-
0. You are completely nuts - anyone who wants to work and not let the government take care of them is nuts
1. Form a relationship with someone who has upper-body strength and knows about tractors - this will be needed for wrestling attachments on and off also.
2. Check the threads here such as http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/141051-need-some-help-choosing-tractor.html

3. Read as much as possible here
4. Check all your local tractor dealers - unless you luck out in #1 you'll need a great dealer for support
5. Check farm auctions in your area - lots of stuff is going CHEAP and if you've done 1 thru 4 above you should be able to jump on something.
6. Don't believe all the "orange versus red" "green vs blue" "mahindra vs Yanmar" wars here. A lot will rely on your local dealer/maintenance.

Good luck and welcome.

Thanks, Newbury

About #1: the two men who rent now (one does the cropping on shares, the other has feeders on pad/pasture) are farming partners, live nearby, and are already very helpful. Both have been great about trying to educate me, giving advice about what to do with certain areas, coming to help when I need it (pulling me out if I'm stuck in snow, helping me transport a piece of equipment I can use but can't get from point a to point b, etc.) They've also given me the names of $8/hr kids with muscle to hire in on as-needed basis (which I've done a few times).

They're both great guys, and I think they're probably the only reason things are going as well as they are on the farm right now. The last thing I want to do is get myself into a situation where I need to call on them to "come help me with this thing" any *more* than I already have to... the idea is to reduce that.

So one of the important things I need to look for is a setup (meaning tractor + certain attachments) that I can handle. Equipment that I can attach and remove myself, if that exists.

One of them has also given me advice on what sort of tractor i might want, but --again-- rather than drive him crazy bringing it up every time I see him, I'm trying to learn about it on my own (hence this forum). What's been recommended to me is (I think) something 70-90 hp with easy hitch system and hydrostatic drive (???--see? I need to keep reading....)

SarahM · Apr 16, 2009

Farmwithjunk said:
Where abouts in "south central Indiana"? (Name of closest city/town) I live in Northern Kentucky, just south of Louisville. (Not that far away maybe???)

Any plans on hiring a helper? A GOOD, experienced farm kid can be a big help.

Any thoughts on a budget for tractor/equipment?

Location can play a significant part in deciding what to do with a farm. (see question #1) When you speak of "farming it yourself", what do you intend to grow?

I farmed a small (relative to most farms today) place for near 40 years. Most years, until my son was grown enough to be of some help, I did most of the work by myself. That precludes using "raw muscle" for many chores. You gotta use the tools of the trade rather than just horsing stuff around. A tractor with a loader is VERY usefull. Don't go with one that's too small. Start the search by looking at local dealers. See who's there to help you once the tractor isn't new any longer. THEN start narrowing the model choices down.

Feel free to PM me with any questions. I'm an old school farmer who happens to enjoy seeing people stay ON the farm. I'd be more than willing to help in any way possible. My wife is a little woman herself, and she grew up on a tobacco farm. She could no doubt add some usefull advice towards your situation.

Good luck!

Thanks, Farmwithjunk --I'm in Lawrence Co. near Bedford, so about an hour and a half from you.

Budget-- I should have included this in original post. I need something that's nice and new enough for me to be able to use it. That said, I have no interest in expensive toys. In my book, tools and equipment are things that pay for themselves over time. My thinking was something that I could do enough to earn/save me enough $$ to pay for itself in about ten years. For some reason, I have a price of about 20K in mind, thinking I ought to easily be able to work off 2k a year, I guess. (includes saving in bush-hogging cost, plowing cost, + hopeful revenue of some sort, for example if tractor made it possible for me to maintain a small cow/calf operation...)

(someone's probably reading this and laughing. Yes, I'm ignorant, so please tell me why this thinking is ridiculous if it is...)

SarahM · Apr 16, 2009

Flusher-- thanks for the great advice and the awesome pics.

I'd chosen haying because it would allow me to keep animals and I imagined I'd need less equipment to do it that to plant, but judging from your pictures I might be wrong about that.

As far as size of deck for a bush hog, I'm more interested in safety, ease of use, and lower $$ than in time saved-- since I don't intend to take over farming of the entire place, I don't mind spending 4 days on a 2 day field.

FWIW the closest dealership to me is Kubota.

SarahM · Apr 16, 2009

Soundguy said:
Bottom line.. sounding like a 4wd ( easy steering.. and safer on hills.. better traction in snow.. good for when you have a heavy load in the loader ) tractor, with loader, and at least 50hp.. so you can remove round bales. ( rear spear or fel.. )

depending on the area.. 6' or 8' mower.

If you stepped this up to about 70hp.. that would be a 10' mower.. but then.. a 70hp 4x4 with loader is gonna be a chunk of change more than a 50.hp job.

Might get an older used ag tractor for the heavy stuff.. say something in the 60-100hp range.. to move hay and pull a big mower.. and get a smaller CUT sized 4x4 with loader for the smaller utility and daily work... say.. early 40's hp?

soundguy

soundguy

soundguy, I like the sound of what you're suggesting (4wd 50hp, etc.). Size sounds practical and affordable unless I am unaware of some safety or ease of use gained from getting bigger/more powerful equipment.

Farmwithjunk · Apr 16, 2009

SarahM said:
Thanks, Farmwithjunk --I'm in Lawrence Co. near Bedford, so about an hour and a half from you.

Budget-- I should have included this in original post. I need something that's nice and new enough for me to be able to use it. That said, I have no interest in expensive toys. In my book, tools and equipment are things that pay for themselves over time. My thinking was something that I could do enough to earn/save me enough $$ to pay for itself in about ten years. For some reason, I have a price of about 20K in mind, thinking I ought to easily be able to work off 2k a year, I guess. (includes saving in bush-hogging cost, plowing cost, + hopeful revenue of some sort, for example if tractor made it possible for me to maintain a small cow/calf operation...)

(someone's probably reading this and laughing. Yes, I'm ignorant, so please tell me why this thinking is ridiculous if it is...)

Ah! Bedford! Over there with the stonecutters huh? You do have a few hills in that area too! I gotta do a little homework and see who's in business out that way still. (as far as dealers) I used to deal some with Stone & Stemle (Deere) just south of you. Also, take a look at Chinn Implement in Ramsey Indiana. (Southeast of you a short ways I think) (MF dealer) I've dealt with them a few times and was very happy with the results.

$20,000 is a realistic number for a used tractor in the size you mentioned. New 70 to 90 hp, especially w/4wd, you're looking in the $50,000 to $65,000 range WITHOUT the loader or implements.

Keep in mind, the bigger you go with the tractor, the bigger (hence, more expensive) the implements get. I farmed just shy of 200 acres with 60hp as my biggest tractor the bulk of those years. PLENTY big enough, and you can use a mix-match of better CAT I implements with smaller CAT II stuff as needed.

intel · Apr 16, 2009

I agree with soundguy and farmwithjunk. Also it might pay to join the local farm bureau if not already a member. know you local extension agent and soil conservation office now called natural resource office. there is a lot of government programs, low cost and maybe free, that can help a farmer. hey if there going to support dead beats they can help farmers

SarahM · Apr 16, 2009

70-80 hp were actually suggested to me by one of the current farm friends + local extension agent (who happens to be excellent, and has been a huge help with advice about share deals and other miscellany so far).

I'm inclined to think a little smaller/cheaper (like 40-50 hp), just because that's how I operate, so I'm not sure why they suggested more power, but I can ask.

flusher · Apr 16, 2009

SarahM said:
Flusher-- thanks for the great advice and the awesome pics.

I'd chosen haying because it would allow me to keep animals and I imagined I'd need less equipment to do it that to plant, but judging from your pictures I might be wrong about that.

As far as size of deck for a bush hog, I'm more interested in safety, ease of use, and lower $$ than in time saved-- since I don't intend to take over farming of the entire place, I don't mind spending 4 days on a 2 day field.

FWIW the closest dealership to me is Kubota.

SarahM: Thanks. I always like to include photos in my posts. I think they help folks just getting into tractoring. I bought my first tractor in May05 (a new 21 hp Kubota B7510HST) so I'm still a newby when it comes to tractors, implements and farming (as in haying). Just looking at photos posted on TBN back then (and now for that matter) was/is a big help to me.

One thing I forgot to mention when talking about attaching implements to the 3pt hitch. The pto shaft of your bush hog needs to be attached to the tractor's rear pto drive shaft to complete the connection. The pto shaft on the hog is fairly heavy, even though you're lifting only one end. The difficult part, sometimes, is to get the shaft to slip onto the tractor's rear pto shaft. It takes finger strength to press the spring loaded retention pin and arm strength to work the splined fittings together. I would recommend you talk to your tractor friends about this and have them show you how it's done. Then try it yourself, being careful not to pinch your fingers in the process.

Also, many, if not most, of the haying implements in my photos attach to the tractor's drawbar similar to the way a trailer attaches to the hitch on a car or truck. These implements are very heavy and have tongue jacks to raise and lower the hitch to match the height of the drawbar. Sometimes even operating these jacks can take a lot of effort. Again, talk to your friends and see if you can handle this task. There's nothing more aggrevating to me that to spend a lot of time messing around with a hitching problem when I'm trying to get real work done.

SarahM · Apr 16, 2009

Farmwithjunk said:
Ah! Bedford! Over there with the stonecutters huh? You do have a few hills in that area too! I gotta do a little homework and see who's in business out that way still. (as far as dealers) I used to deal some with Stone & Stemle (Deere) just south of you. Also, take a look at Chinn Implement in Ramsey Indiana. (Southeast of you a short ways I think) (MF dealer) I've dealt with them a few times and was very happy with the results.

$20,000 is a realistic number for a used tractor in the size you mentioned. New 70 to 90 hp, especially w/4wd, you're looking in the $50,000 to $65,000 range WITHOUT the loader or implements.

Keep in mind, the bigger you go with the tractor, the bigger (hence, more expensive) the implements get. I farmed just shy of 200 acres with 60hp as my biggest tractor the bulk of those years. PLENTY big enough, and you can use a mix-match of better CAT I implements with smaller CAT II stuff as needed.

Farmwithjunk,'

the land is just off of 50 between Bedford and Brownstown, so I know the Deere dealer you're talking about. Hills... yes, lol. The only flat part is the creek bottom. The "up-top" fields are gently rolling, and the timbered ground is hilly to ravinous.

The farm road is gravel, and steep coming into the property itself as well as going from bottom to top ground.

To the person who suggested snow blower instead of plowing/grading: (can't relocate that comment in the thread now for some reason) I don't get how this would work on steep gravel roads with icy snow, but maybe you're talking about a different kind of snow blower than I'm imagining.

To the person who suggested clearing more ground: I'm not considering this because all flat tillable ground of any decent contiguous area is already cleared. Also, I'm treating the timber as a crop, having it put into classified managed forest to reduce taxes & rotational managed cutting for revenue.