Need help deciding on a tractor

lawn_master · Jan 28, 2009

I am up in the air on which tractor to purchase. I have narrowed my choices to a Kioti CK20S HST or the bobcat Ct120. I have read numerous response on this site that says they are one in the same. Unfortunately there are no Kioti dealers within an hours drive of me. Therefore I went to visit a Bobcat dealer. He told me the Bobcat is a better machine because it is a heavier duty machine. That is him speaking, not me... I have downloaded both sets of specs and they seem like the same. Not sure if the hood on the Kioti is metal or plastic. Not sure if the loader valve on the Kioti is standard, it is not on the Bobcat... Right now you can also pick up a free loader on the Kioti, but I do not need one. My goal is only to mow the yard..... Help guys, I trust your opinions over any others. You guys know tractors inside and out and can lead me to make an informative decision. Also, this is my first post.......

rimshot · Jan 28, 2009

I always assumed that the Bobcat CT120 and the CK20(s) 22 h.p. were identical. I have not seen the Bobcat up close yet. I can tell you one thing, the hood isn't plastic on the Kioiti. Did the Bobcat dealer say that? They should both be very solid little workhorses.

I think when it's all said and done I would buy the tractor from which ever dealer you feel comfortable and gives you the best deal. Good luck with the new purchase and keep us posted...................yes pictures too.

Hey! Welcome to the forum.

rim

kentrodngun · Jan 28, 2009

Don't shortchange that free loader. We don't where you live, but that loader is great for moving snow banks, moving around mulch, manure, dirt, rocks & gravel, cement blocks, firewood, groceries (especially large bags of dog food), etc, etc. It's a real backsaver.

Aesthetically, a white machine gets dirty too easy and those orange wheels just clash

. The Bobcat is little more than a Kioti with some white paint and a higher price.

I agree with Rimshot about being comfortable with the dealer. A poor dealer who is closer to you is no bargain and may wind up being more of an inconvenience in the long run. Good luck with your decision.

efudd · Jan 28, 2009

Having been through the same process last spring, I finally purchased a Bobcat CT122 (basically the same as the Kioti CK22) which is the same as a CT120 except for 2 more horsepower. I was told that there were about over 130 changes from the Kioti, but that Kioti did adopt most of the changes except the following:

1. Sealed electrical connections (like our other equipment)

2. Spark Arrestor muffler (to prevent sparks from exiting the muffler and starting a fire)

3. Not only our standard seat is different but we also offer a suspension seat. (it does not tilt on the back but has a height adjustment and a suspension adjustment)

4. Operator condensed hand book attached to the tractor

5. Loader & Backhoe attachments are made to Bobcat specs (more durable & quick exchange on larger tractors)

6. Parts support (Bobcat uses a central warehousing system to stock parts beyond what the dealer has in stock) instead of ordering directly over seas and waiting. Also can pull inventory from other dealers if the warehouse is temporarily out.

I do not know if Kioti has made those changes yet. I liked the local Bobcat dealer and since they are about six miles from my house instead of 45 miles as the Kioti dealer was I went with the Bobcat. If my bc dealer had nt not had a good reputation I would have gone with the Kioti.

Whatever choice you make, enjoy.

Fuddman (Bob)

Gittyup · Jan 28, 2009

A dealer that says that the Bobcat is heavier duty is either misinformed completely or flat out lieing. Ask the Bobcat dealer exactly in what ways is the Bobcat heavier duty. Bobcat is using a different loader that, from what I've read, doesn't spec out as well as the Kioti. Other than that, those tractors are the same. Me, I'd get the Kioti and the free "heavier duty" loader. What's a short drive once in a blue moon? Maintenance parts can always be shipped to you or you can buy them from the Bobcat guy.

novi408 · Jan 28, 2009

When I was looking, I thought I had seen that the CT120 was equivalent to the CK20 and the CT122 was the same as the CK20S. I looked at both the CT120 and the CK20S and ended up with the CK20S. The price I was given for the CT120 was way over what I paid for the CK20S. If I remember correctly, I paid less for the CK20S (with free loader) than what I had been quoted for the CT120 w/o loader.

If your plan is to mow, you may want to look at available mowers. I don't think Kioti currently offers a mid mower for the CK20 (although you may be able to find an older one around), but Bobcat does offer a 54" I think. I would expect that the Bobcat mower would probably fit on the Kioti, but can't say for sure. If you are looking for a 3PT mower, I would agree with the others that the dealer and price should help make the decision.

Is the warranty on the Bobcat any different than the Kioti?

Gittyup · Jan 28, 2009

efudd said:
Having been through the same process last spring, I finally purchased a Bobcat CT122 (basically the same as the Kioti CK22) which is the same as a CT120 except for 2 more horsepower. I was told that there were about over 130 changes from the Kioti, but that Kioti did adopt most of the changes except the following:

1. Sealed electrical connections (like our other equipment)

2. Spark Arrestor muffler (to prevent sparks from exiting the muffler and starting a fire)

3. Not only our standard seat is different but we also offer a suspension seat. (it does not tilt on the back but has a height adjustment and a suspension adjustment)

4. Operator condensed hand book attached to the tractor

5. Loader & Backhoe attachments are made to Bobcat specs (more durable & quick exchange on larger tractors)

6. Parts support (Bobcat uses a central warehousing system to stock parts beyond what the dealer has in stock) instead of ordering directly over seas and waiting. Also can pull inventory from other dealers if the warehouse is temporarily out.

I do not know if Kioti has made those changes yet. I liked the local Bobcat dealer and since they are about six miles from my house instead of 45 miles as the Kioti dealer was I went with the Bobcat. If my bc dealer had nt not had a good reputation I would have gone with the Kioti.

Whatever choice you make, enjoy.

Fuddman (Bob)

Interesting information here. These tractors sure do need sealed electrical connectors. Hopefully Kioti is doing this now too. But, I'd like to know how they are doing this? Connectors that seal would be a significant change from what is on the Kiotis. And connectors that self-seal are very very expensive. Putting something over the standard connectors to seal is a whole different thing. Though, it can be effective. Would like to see these some photos of the "sealed" connectors.

Isn't a spark arrestor required on all internal combustion engines on all new products sold in the U.S.? Again, would like to see the difference.

The CK20s (never heard of a CK22) is 22 hp and does come with a suspension seat. You can't buy a new CK20 (20 hp) anymore. Only the early model years of CK20's did not have a suspension seat.

Don't know about the "more durable" BC specd loader and backhoe; this is almost always a subjective thing. Have seen loader comparison and the Kioti out specs the BC one that I've seen. There are other manufacturers' loaders and backhoes that will fit the Kioti too. And I'd bet they would also fit the BC.

It would be interesting to see the depth of available inventory in that central warehouse. From an economical standpoint, no one does a lot of this anymore. The cost of capitalization and warehouse space just make it impractical.

wallace · Jan 28, 2009

efudd said:
Having been through the same process last spring, I finally purchased a Bobcat CT122 (basically the same as the Kioti CK22) which is the same as a CT120 except for 2 more horsepower. I was told that there were about over 130 changes from the Kioti, but that Kioti did adopt most of the changes except the following: I still would like to know the changes??
1. Sealed electrical connections (like our other equipment) Hmmm when Iwas in Korea wathching the Kioti and Bobcat come down the same assembly line it didn't look like they had different baskets of parts they were picking from the same basket of parts were used for the same tractor as a matter in fact now that the Kiotis are coming thru with black frames I'll bet the only way you can tell them apart is the white fenders and hood
2. Spark Arrestor muffler (to prevent sparks from exiting the muffler and starting a fire) Same muffler

3. Not only our standard seat is different but we also offer a suspension seat. (it does not tilt on the back but has a height adjustment and a suspension adjustment)The only difference is Bobcat uses a gray seat with their logo embossed in the back rest, they are both suspension.

4. Operator condensed hand book attached to the tractor Kioti does not have this option
5. Loader & Backhoe attachments are made to Bobcat specs (more durable & quick exchange on larger tractors)

6. Parts support (Bobcat uses a central warehousing system to stock parts beyond what the dealer has in stock) instead of ordering directly over seas and waiting. Also can pull inventory from other dealers if the warehouse is temporarily out. Kioti also has a central warehouse and we also can get parts from other dealers.

I do not know if Kioti has made those changes yet. I doubt Kioti will ever make the 3 changes..ie. Bobcats seat, white color and manual holder.I liked the local Bobcat dealer and since they are about six miles from my house instead of 45 miles as the Kioti dealer was I went with the Bobcat. If my bc dealer had nt not had a good reputation I would have gone with the Kioti.

Whatever choice you make, enjoy.

Fuddman (Bob)

Just trying to put the facts in perspective.

Gittyup · Jan 28, 2009

Smells like cat poop to me.

Gittyup · Jan 28, 2009

All the BC v. Kioti stuff aside. Are you sure you are looking at the right class of machine just to mow with? Kubota BX's are better mowers, as are the subcut and big GT john Deeres. The Kioti/BC excells when you have loader/ground engagement work to do. They are heavy and well suited to digging. But, weight and mowing are not the best combination.

If you are bent on something like the CK20s/CT122, you might also consider the TYM T233 or T273. These TYM's are more tractor on a shorter frame, and a mmm is available too. The mid PTO is standard on TYM and optional on the CK.

Other subcuts you should look at include MF and Mahindra. There's a lot to choose from. Don't let the salesmen manipulate you. Take your time and do your own research.

lawn_master · Jan 28, 2009

I knwew I could rely of you guys. What should I expect to pay for a Ct120 Vs. a Kiot20 hst. I got a price for a MMM and tractor for 11,700 from Bobcat. He said to call him back before I make the purchase. That is with a Loader Valve. I have no idea what the Kioti will cost me as I contacted three dealers and they were so far apart it was crazy. One dealer quoted me a price for the tractor and mower. I asked him about the free loader. He said is I wanted the free loader I had to pay list price and that nothing was free....... Therefore IO have two questions. What should I pay for a 20 HST with a mower (I actually found a guy who has a left over) and does the 20 HST come standard with the loader valve.... Thanks again guys....

Gittyup · Jan 28, 2009

If I were you I'd talk to Wallace privately. He'll give you a good price.

Any dealer that had the attitude that you'd pay list with the free loader wouldn't get my business. But, if you did this over the phone, you'll seldom get their best deal. Go see them in person.

Finding a CK20 left over is a good find. If I didn't need the 2 extra HP, I would actually prefer the CK20 because the CK20s is more temperamental in the cold. Though I think they have remedied that for the most part. On the CK20, if it has a loader, make sure it's the new style (round tube cross member).

IslandTractor · Jan 28, 2009

I owned a CK20 and loved it but to be honest I wouldn't buy one if my only work task was to mow. It is heavier than needed or ideal for a mower and the two speed transmission means that there will be times on even moderately hilly areas that you'll need to mow in low gear which is very slow. Also the loader is one of the big advantages of the CK20 so if you don't need a loader you miss that.

If I were looking just for a tractor to pull a mower I'd look carefully at the Kubota B series especially the new B2x20 series with three speed HST. And then I'd hook up a Caroni flail mower. Sweet!

I'd also second the notion that your Bobcat dealer is FOS and I wouldn't trust him.

efudd · Jan 28, 2009

No problem, Rick. I was only providing info which was provided to me by the dealer who had to go to Bobcat to get the information. I wasn't concerned about either the Kioti Dealer or the Bobcat dealer. I made my choice based on my expected use of the machine and the distance to the dealership. The chatter about specs on the loader isn't an issue with me, considering that I have managed, in my lifetime, to do what was necessary even with a garden tractor. I appreciate your comments.

Fuddman (Bob)

wallace · Jan 28, 2009

Lawn master
Hate to say it especially in this forum

But I think the Massey GC series or maybe even a Mahindra 1815 would fit your needs better than the Kioti or BC
Ya even look at the Kubota.
Unless you are looking for a loader down the road you best off with one of the little tractors.

Slackdaddy · Jan 28, 2009

Lawn master,
A couple of thoughts - do you really want to buy a tractor from someone that is flat out lying to you ?
The Bobcat CT120 is not the Kioti CK20S, The CT120 are left over CK20 painted white.
The CK122 IS the CK20S, do not let them sell you a discontinued white kioti.
Kioti up graded the CK20 to the CK20S a year or more ago. (added 2 HP, etc)

Bobcat is putting loaders on to their specs - CHEAPER
Bobcat is using a Rhino 6TL loader on the CT120-122.
Rhino list that loader capacity as 800lb to full height, Bobcat list it as 1140lb to full height. I talked to the engineer at Rhino, he flat out said that the 6TL is 800lb - period, that Bobcat was full of it.

So Bobcat wants to sell you an outdated CK20, with an inferior loader and tell you it is a better machine???

IslandTractor · Jan 28, 2009

wallace said:
Ya even look at the Kubota.

I'm sure it hurt to say that Rick.

It's a good thing that at least you carry the little red ones.

wallace · Jan 28, 2009

IslandTractor said:
I'm sure it hurt to say that Rick.

It's a good thing that at least you carry the little red ones.

I am feeling nauseous

IslandTractor · Jan 28, 2009

wallace said:
I am feeling nauseous View attachment 120152

Think of it as bad tasting medicine that is enhancing your reputation as a straightshooting guy. There is a silver lining.

lawn_master · Jan 28, 2009

looked at every tractor know to man, well at least me... all the aforementioned seemed high in price for what you get. I think I will get more for my money with a kioti. I have officially eliminated the Bobcat..... I currently have a Kubota. Looks like I will be looking for a Kioti dealer...