Cold weather drive problems with tc HELP

[pairiefencer]

My older tc, 2003 I think, has been experiencing cold weather problems since early last fall when the temps got into the 40s. It runs fine once it is completely warmed up, sometimes takes 30-45 minutes.
The problems seems to be with the front drive. The back wheels will spin but the front just doesn't kick in at all until it warms up completely.
I just bought the unit last summer and it worked fine until it got cool this fall. Even 40 is cool enough to make it have to warm up a long time before it will move. All the other hydraulics work fine while it is not moving.
I read all the threads and didn't see any that had exactly the same problem?
Do I need to drain the hydraulic oil and put thinner in? Is there an electric valve somewhere that could be sticking until it is warm? I don't have a service manual so I don't know where the problem might be with the control of the wheel drive motors? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[timm9]

That sounds like a really long time to warm up. Mine typically will go from dead cold to in the "green" in about 10 minutes. I'm wondering if you have water in your hydraulic fluid that is freezing and then taking forever to thaw out and flow?

Are you getting an error code? Is the warning light (not sure on your model but on mine it's lower drive side on console) beeping/on?

If so, push and hold the Light Button on the dash console and write down the error code and we will try and look it up for you.

Tim

 

[pairiefencer]

Thanks for answering so fast. Never thought about water in hydraulic oil but could be. I was thinking of draining it and putting a lighter weight oil anyway. Even when temps were above freezing I was having problems with it. Seems like it might be selinoid valve or something sticking. I went out and got the error code. The exclamation point light has been on since I bought the machine. The error code is 50-57. Again thanks for the quick help.

 

[Navigator7]

If your oil is the slightest bit milky, that's water.
Very bad.
Especially with hydrostatic pumps.
Water in the differential?

 

[timm9]

For what it's worth, if I get an error code and warning light I will not operate the TC until I have been told by the dealer/tech that continued operations will not damage the TC. There are codes/warnings that will result in damage if you continue to operate the unit.

The code you are referring to in my B series Manual is referencing a Calibration Error. It does not indicate specifically where the error is coming from. I might suggest you call your dealer and ask what the code is, and if you will damage the TC by running it further.

 

[pairiefencer]

Can anyone tell me where the hydraulic control is for the front drive wheels? Like I said before, I don't have a service manual. I would like to try warming up the valve that kicks in the drive motor for the front wheels.
I will call my dealer with error code tomorrow. Like I said earlier the warning light has been on since I bought it. I might be from the old school but I really don't trust warning lights much. I have seen them come on for no reason more often than not. Guess I didn't know it was the warning light when I bought the tc. I just thought it was something that was turned on or something. I don't think the warning light has anything to do with this current problem because it was on when it was warmer and working fine also.

I would take it to my dealer but they hosed me good on a simple fuel line replacement job on my skid steer, so I hesitate to go back for more.

 

[timm9]

There is the distinct possibility that there is more than one error code. The warning light in your TC is far more important than in your car or truck.Try pushing the Light Button on the dash console multiple times and watch carefully to see if there are more than one code. If so, write them down. I'm not sure where you are from, but I might suggest you look to see if there is a Bobcat trained Independant service tech near you if you are leary of your dealer. With the economy the way it is, I have seen several of the techs go out on their own lately.

While the warning light being may not be connected to the outsite temps. I suspect you are going to find that your issues will be connected to the error code(s). Unfortunately, I am not knowledgable enough to give you advice from here. I have tried unsucessfully to purchase the software that Bobcat uses on their laptops for my own use but no go...

 

[pairiefencer]

Could someone copy the page of the hydraulics schematic for the older tcs and post it here? I would like to know the location of the control for the front wheel drive unit.

I will check for more error codes tomorrow before I call my dealer. THanks.

 

[pairiefencer]

Used my TC today to push some more snow. Same problem as always, listed in my first post. This time I went to gas station and put some deisel in. Shut it off for about 5 minutes. When I started it again it wouldn't go, it is about 0 degree F. Took 10 Minutes or so before if would go again even though it was warmed up. When it finally does take off it beeps three times like something was just turned on. Kind of like it beeps when you leave it in F or R when you lift the side arm.

It had some more errors codes flashing when I started it. The three codes that were flashing are 50-57, 50-42, and 50-34. Can someone looks those up for me and see if there is a clue as to what is wrong? Thanks

 

[timm9]

The following is out if my Service Manual for a B series TC;

Error Code 50-57 Calibration Error
Error Code 50-42 Reverse PWM not calibrated
Error Code 50-34 Forward PWM not calibrated

I suspected you may have had multiple Error Codes. While I'm far from knowledgable, you may find these are all "connected" so to speak. It may be something as simple as a reflash (or failure to reflash) of the software after a parts change out.

Hope this helps!

Tim

 

[Spudgunner]

50-57: Drive Controller not calibrated. (Refers to SM, Section 60, procedure for calibration of Travel Pedal, Brake Pedal, Pump, and Angle Sensor.)
50-42: Rear PWM not calibrated. See Section 30 in the SM for Drive Pump Calibration.
50-34: Front PWM not calibrated. See section 30 in the SM for Drive Pump Calibration.

In the electronics world, PWM usually stands for Pulse Width Modulation.

ETA: "D" Series manual on this one.

 

[pairiefencer]

Does anyone have the service manual for the A? I think mine would be an A model because it is suppose to be a 2003.
Are the calibration procedures something that I could do or would they require a trained technician?

I live in ND where Bobcats are made. Is there a ND Bobcat tech out there who is looking for something to do when it is 20 below out?

If the weather ever breaks I guess I will have to take it to the dealer.

Thanks much for the help.

 

[Navigator7]

50-57: Drive Controller not calibrated. (Refers to SM, Section 60, procedure for calibration of Travel Pedal, Brake Pedal, Pump, and Angle Sensor.)
50-42: Rear PWM not calibrated. See Section 30 in the SM for Drive Pump Calibration.
50-34: Front PWM not calibrated. See section 30 in the SM for Drive Pump Calibration.

Just taking a shot in the dark.....but I'd say the front and real wheels are fighting each other hydraulically when the machine is rolling????

 

[dsb5610]

pairiefencer,

I have all the manuals for the 'A' series. Calibration requires software and cables that I am not sure Bobcat will sell you. If you do have it calibrated you might ask to have the travel and brake pedals as well as the wheel alignment calibrated at the same time. Should only take a few of minutes. Hopefully they charge for actual time required versus a flat rate for each calibration. You will need the unit on jack stands all the way around.

The hydraulic schematic is approx 21"x17", beyond my scanner's capabilities. The manuals are a good investment.

If calibration alone does not correct your symptoms there may be a problem related to the pilot valve or electrical circuits related to it. You can locate the valve underneath behind the base of the lift cylinder.

dsb

 

[pairiefencer]

Thanks a lot for all your help. I wonder what makes it recalibrate and go after a while? Was wondering if a computer reset would help? I think someone was saying that solved a problem they were having. Where are the fuses on the A? I had most of the interior consol apart already and didn't notice any fuses. I did have to replace the battery last fall and it did it before and after that so I guess the computer must have reset then?

On a lighter note when I brought it in to town from the farm I was expecting the same old problem of not going for quite a while. To my surprise as I was easing it out of the shop it took off all of a sudden and broke the end two feet off my wooden door. Luckily it also has a steel door that I put on a year or so ago. Should have had the video camera going.

 

[Navigator7]

Was wondering if a computer reset would help?

If it has computers onboard...maybe that is a possible fix?
Take off the positive, have a cup of coffee and hitch it back up.

Works every time my Apple Airport goes haywire.

 

[pairiefencer]

If it has computers onboard...maybe that is a possible fix?
Take off the positive, have a cup of coffee and hitch it back up.

Works every time my Apple Airport goes haywire.

I unhooked the positive cable for about an hour. It seemed to do the trick for now anyway. It went right after I did it and then I let it set for a while until the glow plugs had to come on again and it took right off again as it should. The exclamation point is still on on the dash so I might still take it in to the local dealer to see if they can get rid of that? You would think if the computer reset it would have also reset the warning light.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

 

[timm9]

I unhooked the positive cable for about an hour. It seemed to do the trick for now anyway. It went right after I did it and then I let it set for a while until the glow plugs had to come on again and it took right off again as it should. The exclamation point is still on on the dash so I might still take it in to the local dealer to see if they can get rid of that? You would think if the computer reset it would have also reset the warning light.

If the warning light is still on you still have a problem. I would suggest you NOT run the TC until you are told it will not damage anything, or until you have the issue fixed. Even if the error codes are no longer in the display, they are "stored" in the memory and will reappear until the issue is fixed.

 

[pairiefencer]

I needed to push some snow yesterday so I started it. It wouldn't go again at first but it didn't take long this time before it went? If the weather stays nice I might haul it in to the dealer tomorrow or Wed. I hope it is an easy fix. Again thanks for your help.

 

[pairiefencer]

Took it to the shop today. They didn't seem to have a clue but I left it there anyway. They are suppose to call me tomorrow when they get a chance to check it out. I sure hope it is not a big problem. There was a guy leaving with a new toolcat that he had just gotten back that had a recall on something. It had the independent suspension and I asked the him how it rides. He said great. My older one rides a little rough, but not bad. Seems like the front coil springs are always bottoming out? I will keep you all informed as to what the problem is and how bad they soak me to fix it.