Blacksmithing

[Lloyd_E]

One of my 'country' interests is blacksmithing.
We (blacksmithing group) recently spent a weekend building 22 propane forges.
The following is the result of our two day workshop. I used coal in the past but find it dirty
and not safe. My shop has a wood floor and I would spend too much time checking on the building well after using the forge. With the gas forge (it cools down in less than 30 minutes) I can walk away and check it once. The forge will get to a welding heat 2700f degrees.

Lloyd

 

[DocHeb]

What is the insulation material that is used for the walls?

 

[Lloyd_E]

The material is from a ceramics/kiln supplier:
1 inch thick 8 lb density 2600 degree F ceramic fibre blanket - Kaowool.
The two layers provide a 5200 degree blanket.
We also coated the blanket with Mortar Vesuvius 3000 degree F.

I can send you a PDF file on the construction if you like.

Lloyd

 

[Western]

Hi Lloyd,

I would love a set of plans, Looks pretty "cool"

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Lloyd, I would love plans for that. I had a chance to take a blacksmithing course but couldn't at the time and it was never offered again. A truly lost art. And a wooden floor even. makes it that much more nostalgic. Thanks for sharing the info.

Andy.

 

[Lloyd_E]

Hopefully this will work...

Lloyd

PS: I had to sign a waver prior to building the forge: essentially giving release to the association in terms of safety, accident or death and or damage, applying to family and heirs.

By accepting this you do the same - release me from any responsibility or accountability for your safety, your family or heirs. You assume all risk in using this information. I believe indoor use of a propane tank violates code everywhere in North America, and most of Europe.

Read the 'safety information' first prior to starting this project.


At a later point there will be a pdf with images and drawings...

 

[Egon]

We have a propane fired pottery kiln housed in an all metal shed with concrete floor in the back yard.

Just a few "Hoops" to jump thru to get it all legal!

 

[Lloyd_E]

Egon,

With a unit that big you could convert to a smelter and do casting or considering the season... a huge turkey roaster!!!


Lloyd

 

[Egon]

Roastin a turkey might get a bit touchy.

 

[polo1665]

Very interesting stuff. I deal extensively with Kaowool blanket and and high temperature mortars in the foundry where I work. I find it amazing that you can achieve such temperatures with propane. The melting point of the nickel and cobalt based alloys we use are lower than 2700 deg. What is your consumption rate of propane? Can these temperatures also be achieved with natural gas using the same furnace set up? I look forward to reading the PDF file you were kind enough to include. Over the years I have aquired quite an interest in this kind of technology, a lost art as Wayne County pointed out. Thanks for posting.

Mark

 

[Lloyd_E]

Polo,

I am new to this. But it can achieve welding heat no problem. I will go through my books to get specs on temperature. What you see is a flame based on 4lbs pressure out-put from a 20 lb. (BBQ) tank. From experience within our blacksmith's group some members have welded with this unit and the pressure is increased from 4 to 10-15 lbs but no higher than 15 lbs. Running at 4 lbs, generally you can run 10 to 12 hours straight. I have not tested this yet. No sure about natural gas - you have more expertise than I.

There are lots of sites on the net dealing with this type of forge and burner design:
anvilefire.com, you tube has great video of forge production, holisticforgeworks.com,
Forge and Burner Design Page #1, Building the forge
These are just a few I googled.

See my previous post #6 for PDF.

Lloyd

 

[Egon]

You would be able to the same thing with natural gas.

Many of the burners involved are identical except for fuel orifice size.

 

[Lloyd_E]

Polo, et al,

I just checked one of my books and forge welding occurs as follows:
Colour of metal:
red 1400f
orange 1800f
yellow 2100f
light yellow 2300f (need this temp to forge weld mild steel)
melting/sparking and burning 2400f

The image of the rod (3rd photo) shows yellow/white - 2100f+.

I guess tomorrow I will try melt/burn some steel!

Lloyd

 

[Bill Barrett]

You would be able to the same thing with natural gas.

Many of the burners involved are identical except for fuel orifice size.

That's true, but your not going to get that kind of pressure. He's talking 5 to 10 PSI LP instead of 3.5 inches Nat.
Usually half the pressure of propane with larger orfice, gives same BTU's

 

[polo1665]

That's true, but your not going to get that kind of pressure.
Usually half the pressure of propane with larger orfice, gives same BTU's

The pressure issue is what I was worried about. My natural gas is free and comes from the well at very high pressure, the pressure is reduced twice before entering any structure. If they are getting 10 to 12 hrs from a 20 lb propane tank I don't think I would with mess the natural gas. You always have to worry about leaks, especially at high pressure. I would be doing this on a very limited basis.

Mark

 

[Egon]

C3/methane - our kiln has been run on both under regulated pressures supplied via tank or from the natural gas utility. It achieved the same temperatures on either fuel. All that was changed on the kiln itself was orifice size.

 

[AlanB]

Polo / Mark,

Love your signature line Kind of fits my place as well.

 

[polo1665]

Polo / Mark,

Love your signature line Kind of fits my place as well.

My grandmother and step-grandfather owned a small fruit farm in Welland, Ontario. My grandmother (oma) was german, but my step-grandfather was 100% Polish. He didn't speak English or german very well, but whenever we asked him how the farm was doing he would say "Arbeit, arbeit, immer viele arbeit". The phrase fit him well as he was a very hardworking man. He had a couple of other choice phrases regarding birds and other pests, I don't think the moderators would appreciate those quotes.

Mark