Gear drive vs hydro

[jake98]

How well would you trust him grading up against some new siding you just installed?
Jake

 

[N80]

How well would you trust him grading up against some new siding you just installed?
Jake

I run my geared tractor right up against my cabin, shed, cars, trucks. And it isn't a lawn mower either, its a good sized CUT. If I hit something it has nothing to do with gearing and everything to do with negligence and an HST isn't going to protect anyone from that.

And you should see my BIL moving hay bales with his geard JD ag tractor. Not only loading and unloading, but you should see him dumping them and then unrolling them by pushing them with the front wheel, never slowing down! That's precision.

 

[Dargo]

Ditto that.. it's an experience issue.

That has a lot to do with it, but obviously in some tasks one type excels over the other. Since I have both there are definitely some tasks for which I prefer gear and some for which I prefer hydro. If the tractor is smaller, I found that I can till with a bigger tiller on a hydro tractor than a gear tractor because the infinite creep speeds. Mowing with a RFM around a lot of obstacles is another task for which I prefer hydro. However, mowing without hundreds of obstacles I greatly prefer gear. Overall, I don't really have a preference for most tasks though. Since I put thousands of hours on gear tractors before I ever even saw a hydro tractor probably tells the story that I'm rather comfortable with gear. I just don't like some of the older non-sync gears I used to have. I absolutely hate to have to stop each time I need a different gear. I guess I do have a preference against those gear tractors.

 

[jake98]

That's what they do with those round bales, they unroll them? Learn something every day. You heard about the cow that starved to death eating them, didn't you? Couldn't get a square meal...

 

[Soundguy]

I run my geared tractor right up against my cabin, shed, cars, trucks. And it isn't a lawn mower either, its a good sized CUT. If I hit something it has nothing to do with gearing and everything to do with negligence and an HST isn't going to protect anyone from that.

And you should see my BIL moving hay bales with his geard JD ag tractor. Not only loading and unloading, but you should see him dumping them and then unrolling them by pushing them with the front wheel, never slowing down! That's precision.

Ditto.. operator.. not transmission.

I mow in 5th gear with my batwing mower on my 95hp tractor and run right along my fence line which is mostly 3 board cresote with 2x4 no climb wire... so far havn't hit it yet.. and i mow on average about 6" away..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

That has a lot to do with it, but obviously in some tasks one type excels over the other. Since I have both there are definitely some tasks for which I prefer gear and some for which I prefer hydro. If the tractor is smaller, I found that I can till with a bigger tiller on a hydro tractor than a gear tractor because the infinite creep speeds. Mowing with a RFM around a lot of obstacles is another task for which I prefer hydro. However, mowing without hundreds of obstacles I greatly prefer gear. Overall, I don't really have a preference for most tasks though. Since I put thousands of hours on gear tractors before I ever even saw a hydro tractor probably tells the story that I'm rather comfortable with gear. I just don't like some of the older non-sync gears I used to have. I absolutely hate to have to stop each time I need a different gear. I guess I do have a preference against those gear tractors.

I can't think of a job that could not be performed by both tractors.. and in those situations.. superior experience of the operator will IMHO.. make more difference to the job than the tool he is using.. Now.. that said.. apir the 'master' and the tool more suited and you get better synergy.

Constant loader work IMHO is where a hydro trans would peak.. perhaps even mor ethan a syn-shuttle shift, as you can modify your drive in to the pile while scooping with a bit more controll / clutch / throttle adjustment.

soundguy

 

[MossRoad]

I think we should start a drinking game and everyone has to take a shot each time someone posts to a GEAR VS. HYDRO thread on TBN.

 

[Egon]

We could also add the steering wheel spinner to the hydro/gear debate.That gives four different items that could mixed and matched.

Throw in some implements and have a real Brouha ehh!

 

[art]

You guys are great at batting this old debate around and I appreciate it! One thing we have found from frugile new tractor operators that buy gear drive tractors is that we now see that people learning how to grade with gear drives are taking clutches out between 500 and 1000 hours not the normal two thousand plus! Clutch petal wear shows that they leave their feet on them a lot, often wearing through the rubber pad in the lower left or right corner. When this happens they just paid the price difference of the gear to hydro, depending on what they are doing the most with the tractor, the fuel may be less if they had the hydro because they wouldn't be running the tractor as much!

I do like both systems for different jobs, but often the non-farm applications have multiple operators. Some are good operators, some are not so good! For multiple operators you need an easy to learn comfortable system. I often call the hydro's murphy proof!

 

[jake98]

Alright, I'll go first, but I'm substituting beer for the shot. I make too many stupid posts when I drink shots...
Jake cheers

 

[N80]

That's what they do with those round bales, they unroll them?..

I don't know if that's what everyone does with them, but he is a master at it. Looks dangerous as all get out. He has it on the hay forks on the loader, gets a running start, dumps it in front of the tractor without slowing down, with the loader going up, then catches it with the left front tire and rolls it out like a big carpet. Once it rolls down to about 1/3 its size it looks like it would be easy to ride up over it and even turn over. The he wheels it around and plucks another one off the wagon and does it again.

Soundguy, I agree that it is the operator in this case, but my point is, it does not require HST to provide him with the precision to do this little trick. Its all gear selection, throttle control and maybe some clutching, maybe some breaking. Might be easier with HST, but might not.

 

[Soundguy]

You guys are great at batting this old debate around and I appreciate it! One thing we have found from frugile new tractor operators that buy gear drive tractors is that we now see that people learning how to grade with gear drives are taking clutches out between 500 and 1000 hours not the normal two thousand plus! Clutch petal wear shows that they leave their feet on them a lot, often wearing through the rubber pad in the lower left or right corner. When this happens they just paid the price difference of the gear to hydro, !

That's where post sale service at delivery should have informed the new tractor owner that a clutch is not meant primarily as a speed control device.. that's what the throttle is for!

soundguy

 

[N80]

Agreed. Anyone with any experience with a manual transmission should know better than that.

And speaking of dealers and HST, I'm just guessing but there must be more margin on the HST tractors than the simple ones because when I was shopping I was always steered toward the HST machines. Even after chosing the 4400 most of them wanted me to drive an HST thinking it would change my mind. I hated it.

 

[Dargo]

Agreed. Anyone with any experience with a manual transmission should know better than that.

And speaking of dealers and HST, I'm just guessing but there must be more margin on the HST tractors than the simple ones because when I was shopping I was always steered toward the HST machines. Even after chosing the 4400 most of them wanted me to drive an HST thinking it would change my mind. I hated it.

Yup. That's why I said that the only real difference for me is when trying to pull a large tiller with a tractor that is close on HP to handle the tiller at full depth. The hydro has infinite creeping ability. The gear does as well, but at a cost. The same goes for jockeying around all sorts of things when mowing. Again, the gear tractor can do it just fine, but with a certain cost.

Oddly enough, I think I sort of prefer my gear tractor with shuttle shift for doing loader work. I have the dial on the dash to control the aggressiveness of the shuttle. Once I dial it in for the right amount, the gear tractor is just more comfortable for me and doesn't give me shin splints from a rocker pedal.

 

[art]

Agreed. Anyone with any experience with a manual transmission should know better than that.

And speaking of dealers and HST, I'm just guessing but there must be more margin on the HST tractors than the simple ones because when I was shopping I was always steered toward the HST machines. Even after chosing the 4400 most of them wanted me to drive an HST thinking it would change my mind. I hated it.

There is no additional mark-up here, they are all marked the same. For a salesperson who often is the first one to here from a customer of disabilities of a unit they to find the average individual can learn to operate a tractor faster with near proficency if it's a hydro! I've got some great customers that would kill a clutch, never learned how to drive a standard! I here it on a regular basis when showing a family different tractors and options on tractors.

I also have some that I won''t even attempt to talk to about a hydro! Worse then changing colors!!!!!

 

[jake98]

How long have they had syncros on gear tractors?

 

[N80]

Yup. That's why I said that the only real difference for me is when trying to pull a large tiller with a tractor that is close on HP to handle the tiller at full depth. The hydro has infinite creeping ability. The gear does as well, but at a cost. The same goes for jockeying around all sorts of things when mowing. Again, the gear tractor can do it just fine, but with a certain cost.

What are the costs you are referring to?

 

[N80]

There is no additional mark-up here

It must vary, I had a sales manager tell me specifically that margins on basic no frills machines were much less than on higher end machines like the GLs. But that was over 3 years ago.

 

[RollingsFarms]

What are the costs you are referring to?

i'm guessing that he is talking about "creeper gear options" that you can buy with alot of tractors. my old tractor had an 8x2 and i loved the speed of 1st gear in it. my new one has 9x3 SyncShuttle and it's a good bit faster, although not enough to really complain about. not nearly as fast as my friend 5105 with the 8x4(you feel like you're flying in every gear). i have always preferred a gear tractor for my uses, and now having owned a tractor with a synchronized shuttle transmission i will never go back to anything without it.

 

[AndyMA]

We could also add the steering wheel spinner to the hydro/gear debate.That gives four different items that could mixed and matched.

Throw in some implements and have a real Brouha ehh!

To me a spinner is just something to break your knuckles when your front wheels hit something and the wheel is ripped out of your hands.

Andy