Tractor Performance: diesel vs gas

[WilliamBos]

I've got a 99 dodge diesel with 342,000 miles on it. It pulls as well now as it did when I got it. I just got through moving our deer camp's JD 4020 with it. I check my fuel mileage every time I fuel up and over the year or so since we switched to ULSD around here I have noticed absolutely no decrease in fuel mileage. NONE, nada, zip. It still gets 21-22 mpg highway running around empty, just like it did before ULSD.

The 342,000 miles on this truck are the main reason I prefer diesel over gas. It's highly unlikely that this truck would still be running with a gas engine at 342K. With the diesel it's still running like new and still working pulling very heavy loads. The things that soundguy lists as a gasser's attributes, the carburetor and points, are the two things that I miss the least about old gas engines. I was a hotrodder in high school and spent most of my teen years tinkering with old muscle cars. I've rebuilt plenty of carburetors and set the gap on points more than once along with getting shocked by a few condensors. Thank God for fuel injection and electronic ignitions is my point of view, if I never see another carburetor or set of points in my lifetime it'll be too soon.

Is that a 24Valve? HO??

 

[GaryCrowell]

Is that a 24Valve? HO??

It's the 235 HP/460 TQ manual transmission engine. It's one of the first 24 valve engines, actually a 98.5 model but I say 99 to avoid confusing people.

 

[Soundguy]

Thank God for fuel injection and electronic ignitions is my point of view, if I never see another carburetor or set of points in my lifetime it'll be too soon.

I think it's going to be a long time before we see small engines with those options.

The idea of a fuel injected weed wacker does come to mind though!


soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Now if you are saying you can do a quickie shoddy rebuild of a gasser and get away with it, fine. Will it last, probably not. I say do it right the first time, or don't bother doing it..

Quick does not = shoddy.

Incomplete rebuild does not = shoddy.

I'd like to see your 'proof' for your statemnt about an incomplete rebuild not lasting.

I've seen plenty of ring or ring and beairng shell jobs exceede 10+ years on a working ( gas ) tractor.

IMHO.. looking at return on investment and 100$ worth of parts and *free* labor one afternoon.. that's not too shabby.. or.. shoddy as you put it.

soundguy

 

[AKwelder]

On the small motors, under 1000 cc, over 500 cc, fuel injection is starting to emerge. My last snowmachine was a 1000 cc fuel injected 175 HP 2 stroke. the newest one that I pick up next month is a 800 cc Fuel injected 154 HP 2 stroke. My Quad is a 700 cc fuel injected 4 stroke.

The boat motors are getting even more advanced. But it will be a long time before a fuel injected lawn more hits the market. Right now it is all being driven by the EPA and the smog laws.

 

[Egon]

I've seen plenty of ring or ring and beairng shell jobs exceede 10+ years on a working ( gas ) tractor.

The number of years one has a piece of equipment is not really an indication of how well it will last. The hours the machine has been used will give a much better indication.

How do people with much equipment schedule their maintenance program.

As the peanut gallery would say, "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes"

 

[Soundguy]

The number of years one has a piece of equipment is not really an indication of how well it will last. The hours the machine has been used will give a much better indication.

How do people with much equipment schedule their maintenance program.

As the peanut gallery would say, "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes"

I specifically mentioned.. a -WORKING- gas tractor.. IE.. daily worker.. not a setter.

As usual.. and as I expected..your last comment was -only- smoke..

soundguy

 

[Egon]

I specifically mentioned.. a -WORKING- gas tractor.. IE.. daily worker.. not a setter

I see: Therefore it would be safe to say that Farmer A with say 15 acres of farm has a working gasser that lasts 10 years. Then for Farmer B with 150 acres and the same working gasser, the tractor life would be one year! And for farmer C with 300 acres the same working gasser the tractor life would be 1/2 year???

The whole world seems to rate equipment durability on hours does it not?? Why not just come out tell us how many hours? Its really not that hard to do and would make things clear for us. Or is it difficult??

The peanut gallery it says "Along with the smoke the fudge of disinformation is getting pretty thick" ehh what!

 

[Soundguy]

I see: Therefore it would be safe to say that Farmer A with say 15 acres of farm has a working gasser that lasts 10 years. Then for Farmer B with 150 acres and the same working gasser, the tractor life would be one year! And for farmer C with 300 acres the same working gasser the tractor life would be 1/2 year???

The whole world seems to rate equipment durability on hours does it not?? Why not just come out tell us how many hours? Its really not that hard to do and would make things clear for us. Or is it difficult??

The peanut gallery it says "Along with the smoke the fudge of disinformation is getting pretty thick" ehh what!

Dude.. get some HRIG and calm down. I did not say 'MY tractor'.

i said I know of working gassers with 'cheap' rebuilds running daily.

I don't stop by these peoples houses or business's daily to find out what their hour meter rolls up?

The place i buy feed from has one of the beasts I'm refering to... the only working gauge on the poor thing is the oil pressure gauge.. It loads round bales and moves pallates 6 days a week. I know about it's cheap rebuild cuz i was the one that helped them with it years ago. At the time they needed it to be running better.. didn't want to drop lots of cash into it.. and were planning on getting a new machine to repalce it with... they new I was into antique iron and wanted help finding parts and or service on the cheap.

So far.. no new machine..and it runs like a champ.. plus keeps their driveway from rusting too!

No disinformation here.. just lack of it.

As for your question on the 3 sizes of acerage vs hours.. what difference does it make? If a $<100 ring and bearing job nets you? 3000 hrs? where's the problem.. it's cheaply found time. ( by the way.. that number is merely a construct of 1hr per day, 6 days a week, 52 weeks per year.. for 10ys... ) thought I would mention that for the rabid bean counter.. er.. peanut counter..

soundguy

 

[Egon]

So, what you are saying is that you really have no idea what the longevity is in hours??



The peanut gallery just got some breathing masks. It smells as if the performer was out playing with a skunk.

 

[Soundguy]

So, what you are saying is that you really have no idea what the longevity is??

Years.. .. I did say years.. does that count as a time period for you? or whatever planet you are from.. do they use light years?

The peanut gallery just got some breathing masks. It smells as if the performer was out playing with a skunk.

These acerbic quips are uncalled for and truly detract from the threads here.

I'm going to make an adjustment that will greatly increase the reading pleasure for myself anyway..

{click}

Ahh.. that's better.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

Years ehh!

So the tractor will easily run twenty four hours a day for 365 days a year for 10 years ?? That's how the years thing shakes out!

And back in the peanut gallery the performer starts wondering why he appointed the lowlife despicable fellows down there as his conscience.

 

[JSharp]

But the gassers offer NO advantage whatsoever. Why bother. Rebuilds are no more complex on diesels, injector pumps get done by shops, so why bother with gassers.

If you're talking about older small tractors, say 50HP and under and 1970 and older, the gas units do have advantages.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Howdy all, new to the forum here.

I'm planning to buy a smallish farm tractor, prolly less than 50 HP. I'm interested in opinions about the difference between diesel and gas engines, in regards to overall tractor performance. What preference do you have and why?

- djb

If you are planning to buy new, I'm afraid you'll have to buy a diesel since I know of no new gas powered tractors. I believe the early '80's saw the last of the gas powered tractors offered by OEM.
Personally, I believe diesel is a better way to go from a thermal efficiency standpoint and a maintenance standpoint. The high compression ratios (16-18:1 or greater)of the diesel lend itself to better fuel eficiency because of about a 10% better thermal efficiency just from the use of the diesel cycle. This is particularly true at part load because the spark ignition engine uses a throttle plate to control speed while the diesel engine is controled by controling fuel flow with a wide open induction system.

The diesel engine is a bit more complicated than a spark ignition engine but the owner won't realize that because the engineering of the engine has dealt with those issues.

With no ignition system to deal with, the only regular scheduled engine maintenance is changing the oil and filter, making sure the air filter is clean, changing or servicing the coolant, and changing the fuel filters. Of course since the EPA is in charge of regulating air quality, in their infinite wisdom, they are requiring more stringent emmision controls on farm tractors, so there is that issue to deal with. Removing sulphur from the fuel is a good thing for the engine durability viewpoint but the resulting lack of fuel lubricity and the slight(~0.5-1.0 %) reduction in LHV of the fuel due to the desulphuring process ( not the removal of sulphr per se) has required special fuel additives be added by refiners and fuel efficiency to decrease by ~0.5-1.0 %. It will also add some additional maintenance because of the special devices that are added to the engine.

One down side of the diesel is the cold starting capability for those of us who live in the cold parts of the world. this can be greatly alieviated by the use of block heaters and making sure that the battery charging system is working correctly. The spark ignition engine with its more volatile fuels and lower compression ratios (~8:1) is certainly easier to start in sub zero tempreatures relative to a diesel.

in my opinion, it's not a hard choice to choose between a diesel or a gas tractor. I'd choose a diesel, hands down!

I hope you find this helpful.

 

[Soundguy]

I believe the early '80's saw the last of the gas powered tractors offered by OEM..

CC had one in the late 90's..

soundguy

 

[WilliamBos]

CC had one in the late 90's..

soundguy

I think he is referring to AG/Utility tractors, not CUT/SCUT.

 

[intel]

I am an engineer and i believe the bus drivers

 

[Jerry/MT]

CC had one in the late 90's..

soundguy

CC, who is that?

 

[Soundguy]

Cub Cadet. I didn't see where you had specified ag/utility.. or i wouldn't have offered that as a possibility. But CC did have a ? big scut.. or small cut as a gasser. In the late 90's I remember looking at one at an agco dealers lot... cute.. and I like things with spark plug wires... I can usually get them to run without any (high magic)..

soundguy

 

[RalphVa]

I definitely like diesels: can do most jobs with less hp than gas because of big torque of the diesel; they start INSTANTLY (after proper glow plugging, etc.)(this is vs. carbureted gas; fuel-injected gas will start the same); they use less fuel, about 50% less than a carbureted gas; combine this lower fuel consumption with lower needed hp and you really save fuel.

In a 3,000# car, for instance, a 100 hp diesel is great; whereas, you need about a 125-140 hp gas engine one for the same performance.

Ralph