Middle buster vs sub-soiler ???

[IXLR8]

I have several sections of my property that are a bit uneven, they don't look good and I often scalp those parts of the lawn with my 48" mower. There is also a section that slopes towards the house and with some work I can change it to slope away. I was going to use either a middle buster or a sub-soiler to break things up before I took the FEL and rototiller to the areas. So which, MB or SS, might do the job better? Why is the sub-soiler more expensive than the middle buster? The middle buster looks like there is more work/material involved.
TIA

 

[IslandTractor]

I believe that the main difference is that the subsoiler will break up compacted soil deep without moving it much while the middle buster will move soil and create a shallow furrow. Middle busters are also known as potato plows (maybe that is not exactly the term) and are used in potato harvest.

If you are interested in disturbing the top six to eight inches of soil to make it easier to move with a bucket, it seems the middlebuster might be best.

Subsoilers are intended to break up compacted soil for drainage purposes and as they don't have any plow share they don't really disturb the top soil much.

 

[daBear]

I would use a box blade to do the whole job with the scarifier teeth down. However, in your case probably the sub soiler will make the most sense to me. The MB is a plow and if you have any big roots you will break the furrow off the plow. I would guess the SS is more expensive because it is heavy duty for the job it is designed to do.

 

[witterbound]

I've been using a middle buster to break up the soil, then I scoop it off with my FEL. The middle buster does a good job of this, and I'd think it is what you need. I've got a lot of rock 24" down, and the middle buster will pull some of them up, but it takes a long time and a lot of work to do so.

 

[johnnylight]

My vote would be neither.

go with the markham toothbar for your FEL--so many other uses for it later.
I never take mine off.

 

[IslandTractor]

My vote would be neither.

go with the markham toothbar for your FEL--so many other uses for it later.
I never take mine off.

I like toothbars but if there is a lot of untilled soil to move it would certainly be faster to break it up with a 3pt implement first.

 

[3RRL]

Which of those do you have right now so you don't have to spend any more money?
How much of a "hump" or how big and tall is the area you need to cut down?
Either one will work for what you are planning. I would use a boxblade with rippers down (if you have one) to loosen the soil. Then move the dirt not only with the fel bucket, but also drag it at the same time with the box blade. I say this because that's all I have so I make it work.
Just depends what you have and if are you willing to use it or not. Perhaps you're going to buy something to do this, then I would get a boxblade first since you'll find a million uses for it later, then a subsoiler as a second choice and the middle buster as a last choice. But like I said, any of those will work for you.

 

[IXLR8]

Which of those do you have right now so you don't have to spend any more money?

I have FEL, toothbar, rear blade, backhoe, neighbor has the tiller. No boxblade, wish I did as I suspect, with the scarfers, that would be best. My thinking was to buy MB or SS to bust things up and then use FEL, along with neighbors tiller, to level/smooth. Trying to minimize costs. Ground is mostly hard clay... toothbar does not seem terribly effective... then again I have only spent 20 min so far trying to use it. Had to take it off for some other work I was doing. Neighbors tiller is a large commercial unit that occasionally makes his JD5105 cry uncle. He tilled/leveled 10 acres of his yard with it when he bought his place.

How much of a "hump" or how big and tall is the area you need to cut down?

I have a few 'humps' that are probably 20'x20' 3'-4' high. The area I want to reverse the sloping on is about 30'x50' with an average of about 3' removal.

 

[kthompson]

How much more is the subsoiler? If much it is probably a better quality than the middle buster is. Have your cake and eat it too. They are the subsoiler and middle buster combos that just require you to switch from the middle buster furrower to the subsoiler point. There are a little more but not as much as both. kt

 

[IXLR8]

How much more is the subsoiler? kt

MB- $160
SS- $180
Both at TSC, have not looked at them in person yet, so not sure of quality differences. Suspect they are made by same company.

 

[3RRL]

From your reply to me, I'd go with using the neighbor's tiller if he''l let you borrow it. It will cost you nothing.
Till a few inches deep at a time an fel the loose stuff away. Then do it again until you have the hump cut down to where you want. If his tiller is a good one, it should be able to cut through hard clay ground in reasonable passes. It'll be better on your tractor too. Another thought is to have your neighbor do it with his tractor and you follow with yours, clearing up the loose dirt with your fel. A case of beer or a full fuel tank might be all it takes?

If you are going to buy another implement, I would seriously consider a decent box blade to add to your collection. You can always take out the scarifiers, leaving only one ... or two in to let it dig deep and act sort of like a subsoiler. Then you would have the box to move dirt and do whatever else with it. A boxblade is a wonderful multi-purpose tool if used correctly. I think you can get a medium duty 5 or 6 footer at TSC or Agri-supply for around 5 or 6 hundred bucks? Might be worth considering??

 

[Highbeam]

I did a similar sized grading job (actually a few) with my boxblade. I own a subsoiler and I did use it at the end to prepare the new finished grade for planting. I never saw much value in subsoiling soil just for the sake of scooping it into the boxblade. The box has rippers already. I have subsoiled virgin sod and the foot of the SS does fracture the ground and hump it up, but only slices the sod with minimal surface disturbance.

Borrow the neighbors tiller or his tiller/tractor combo for the initial sodbusting. That top layer will be the biggest challenge.

 

[RalphVa]

If you have a toothbar on your FEL, you could point it straight down and break up soil this way.

Ralph

 

[john_bud]

Use the tiller, then the FEL, then the tiller in a larger area, then switch to the back blade to finish.

jb

 

[kthompson]

MB- $160
SS- $180
Both at TSC, have not looked at them in person yet, so not sure of quality differences. Suspect they are made by same company.

Memory is the metal on the subsoiler is larger but even on King Kutter's site they don't give the specs. The subsoiler does weigh more, 114 pounds compared to 80 for the middle buster. A subsoiler is designed for hard dirt with roots and rocks, a middle buster is not. No idea in your area, but you may find a used one for little cost as most farmers have moved from single to multiple row subsoiler. It you need a subsoiler get one with some shear pin to it or drive slow. I will tell you 14 inch deep is not that deep for a subsoiler here. You may need to find a longer shank if you have needs of one. They were designed to break up the hard pan that some soils will have and those hard pans can be rather deep. The soil I have hard pan build up on is about 14 to 20 inches deep. If there are root or vines you will be running through you may need a culter to cut them as they will wrap around the subsoiler and load it up. But you just changed the cost of the item by a good bit. Lifting it out of the ground and backing up will unload it normally. kt

 

[kthompson]

I forgot to say, if you have no other need than to loosen the soil to level and and then will have no need for a subsoiler or middle buster, I would use one of the other suggestions above. Will say the little cutters on a box blade are no where near the same as a real subsoiler. Then neither is the price. kt

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think I would use the middlebuster and checker board the area about 6-8" deep. Then use the FEL to scoop up the loose soil. Middlebuster again as needed maybe going diagonal to the previous directions. You shouldnt need to plow 12" deep at one pass like a subsoiler since you cant move that much dirt at one time with the FEL anyway. Just plow lightly to loosen things up, If you are really good, you could plow and load at the same time, at least after the first passes since you would likely be just moving soil from high to low points, it should work ok. I dont think I would use the tiller till I got the area level as I wanted it. Then till it up with some mulch or other organic matter since your soil in that area is likely barren of top soil at that point, it will need some top soil replacement. You may even consider saving the first 6 to 8" that you take off and respread it to the area after you finish your cut just like the stripminers.

 

[Gary Fowler]

You might want to use the tiller after you complete your leveling job to loosen up the soil and or mix in some of your saved topsoil with the native soil that is left, otherwise you will likely have a very poor soil condition for growing for several years.

 

[IXLR8]

Well, we tried to put my neighbors tiller on my tractor this weekend.. didn't work so good. His tiller is a 7ft model, he doesn't remember who made it, what is left of the paint is sort of an olive green. He thinks he paid in the neighborhood of $3800 17 years ago. It is built like a TANK, weighs a ton, my CK30 really didn't want to lift it, never mind going tilling with it, so I won't be using it on my tractor. Plan now is to try using the toothbar in the spring when the ground is wet and soft, using the backhoe to break things up if necessary. Will save any good dirt I have... which is not much. Get things shaped basically as I want them, bring in some good loam to go with any good dirt I have left, get neighbor to till the dirt/loam in the areas I am working on, rake level, plant grass, water, mow.
Thanks for all your inputs and suggestions, looks like I won't have to buy any new toys... er tools to get this done.

 

[IslandTractor]

Well, we tried to put my neighbors tiller on my tractor this weekend.. didn't work so good.

Couldn't lift it eh? I think this is all a part of an elaborate charade to convince Mrs IXLR8 that you need a DK. Don't worry, we'll keep your secret.