kk subsoiler/middle buster

[mattellis2]

i've been looking at possibly buying the king kutter subsoiler that my local tractor supply has. after looking at it, it looks like it has the same basic frame geometry as the middlebuster plow that is also there. i'm curious...could i buy some 14" sweeps, drill and tap the subsoiler tooth, and have both for the basically the price of one? has anyone tried this modification?

thanks,

-matt

 

[ChuckinNH]

You can do a search, but I think I have read here that the subsoiler tip, and middlebuster tip both have the same bolt pattern. I'm going to be checking that out myself sometime later this summer. Keep us posted with what you find.

 

[flusher]

i've been looking at possibly buying the king kutter subsoiler that my local tractor supply has. after looking at it, it looks like it has the same basic frame geometry as the middlebuster plow that is also there. i'm curious...could i buy some 14" sweeps, drill and tap the subsoiler tooth, and have both for the basically the price of one? has anyone tried this modification?

thanks,

-matt

I have KK's subsoiler/middlebuster XB combo that I bought from TSC for use with my Kubota B7510HST (21 hp engine, 17 hp pto).

The hole pattern on the MB plow and the subsoiler are identical.

I also used that KK 3pt frame with a sweep that I got from Ag Supply.

I found that this sweep works better when digging trenches for PVC landscape irrigation pipe.

 

[loulblades]

I found that this sweep works better when digging trenches for PVC landscape irrigation pipe.

Are you saying you dig the trench first this way then put the pipe in? I actually took the "tooth" off of my KK subsoiler to run electrical conduit and water pipe by attaching the pipe to the bottom of the subsoiler and trenching/pulling the pipe. Works great with little cleanup.

 

[patrick_g]

I too noticed the similarity in subsoiler and middle buster so I bought one complete and the "insert" for the other. My low end King Cutter stuff is yellow. The ground engaging "insert blades" (making it up as I go) are interchangeable. Undoubtedly, KK uses the same "body" for both implements, just changing the "tip."

There is NO DIFFERENCE so it will work fine to change back and forth.

Pat

 

[FrogLick]

I just recently bought the KK subsoiler/middlebuster combo at Tractor Supply myself. The combo comes with the plow blade so no mods necessary.

 

[Skyco]

In this thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/117146-tsc-backwards-implement-pricing.html?highlight=bar we discussed the same thing about the KK middle buster and the subsoiler. The frames are NOT the same, the length is different. Thats not to say you can't switch the points around, you can.

 

[flusher]

Are you saying you dig the trench first this way then put the pipe in? I actually took the "tooth" off of my KK subsoiler to run electrical conduit and water pipe by attaching the pipe to the bottom of the subsoiler and trenching/pulling the pipe. Works great with little cleanup.

Yep. I was laying rigid PVC water lines, not the flexible stuff. Had to do a little work with the trench spade, but not a big deal. I could run that sweep a few inches deeper than with the subsoiler chisel point.

 

[patrick_g]

The frames are NOT the same, the length is different.

I guess asking store personnel is NOT definitive. I was told they were the same. Now I wonder which I have, the short one or the long one. I would rather have the long one as it can always be raised up a bit but the short one will limit depth attainable. Oh well, yet another potential project, lengthening the body of the implement.

Oh, and thanks for the link to the prev thread. I read it and got as confused as informed. Apparently there are some frames alike for the two implements (or they are mislabeled) and some different and at least a third variant in the dual purposr body with hollow construction vice solid. ARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!1

Pat

 

[ChuckinNH]

It is the XB version that is hollow, and comes with the interchangable subsoiler/ middlebuster attachments. The XB version is also smaller. The full size (yellow) ones I've seen are different lengths with the subsoiler being the longer one. I do think that the bolt pattern for the middlebuster attachment is the same.

 

[skipmarcy]

I just went out with a tape measure and looked at mine - I have both the subsoiler and the middle buster (yellow paint). The subsoiler shank is about 3" longer than the middlebusters'. The angle of attack of the foot of the subsoiler frame is shallower than the foot of the middlebuster - the middlebuster plow stands up at a higher angle. The bolt spread on the subsoiler is 2" center to center. The spread on the middlebuster is 2 1/4". If you put the plow off the middlebuster on the subsoiler it would be at too flat of an angle to do much better than the subsoiler itself. Both units have performed well for me. Most recently I busted 2, 50' ditches to bury 4" gutter drainpipes. Ran thru with the subsoiler, then plowed some out with the middlebuster and finally the good 'ol shovel to get the rest out. With the middlebuster having a shorter shank, it didn't get all the busted dirt out the subsoiler brokeup.

 

[headleyj]

what's the deepest one could go with either one of these? I need to dig a 3' deep trench ~12' long - hate to pay someone to do it when I could buy an implement and have it for life.

 

[FrogLick]

I may be wrong but I don't think any usual subsoiler/middlebuster will go 3' deep. You could rent a trencher or hire someone to do the trenching for you. It would be a relatively quick job for only 12' long and might not be very expensive to hire someone especially if you can find someone local who doesn't have to travel very far.

 

[daBear]

what's the deepest one could go with either one of these? I need to dig a 3' deep trench ~12' long - hate to pay someone to do it when I could buy an implement and have it for life.

There is not a subsoiler made for a CUT that will go down 36", nor a CUT that would pull one that deep either. Mine can get about 12-16" deep at best after several passes. I used it to put in 1" irrigation lines in my yard which worked fairly well. But, in the end I wished I had bit the bullet and rented a trencher.

 

[nate_m]

But, in the end I wished I had bit the bullet and rented a trencher.

So what are the drawbacks to trenching with a sub-soiler that can be avoided with a trencher?

 

[flusher]

Trenchers, like Ditch Witch units, have an auger feature that moves the excavated dirt out and away from the trench. A subsoiler cuts the soil, but you can expect to do work with your trenching shovel to clean out the loose dirt.

I've use both methods. I cut about 1100 feet of 24 and 30 inch deep trenches with a Ditch Witch 1330 rental from Home Depot. It's a heavy (~1000 lb) walk-behind unit that is pretty hard to steer to line up the thing at the start of a trench. But it does leave a pretty clean trench about 4" wide with only 2-3 inches of pulverized dirt in the bottom.

I used my KK subsoiler and Kubota B7510HST to cut 12" deep trenches for landscape irrigation. Got a good upper body workout with the trenching shovel.

 

[daBear]

So what are the drawbacks to trenching with a sub-soiler that can be avoided with a trencher?

I installed a 1" rigid PVC pipe sprinkler system on an acre and a half in my back and side yards, nine zones in all. When I began work on each zone I would take my subsoiler and make several passes eventually as deep as it would go. I tried making a sloping lead in trench and pulling the pipe through, but it would rise in places and almost touch the surface. Next, I put a middle buster plow on and went back and forth over the line I made with the sub soler. That way I had an open trench which I could get about 10" deep.

All in all, this worked, but it was a lot, lot of work and time which would have been made a heck of lot quicker and easier just renting a trencher and knocking it out. After I got the pipe in the trench I had to change attachments and use the box blade to cover it up.

When I was finished I had a covered up trench which was at least a foot wide and the tractor tires killed a 5 foot wide path of grass while I was running the sub soiler and middle buster back and forth.

It started like a good idea and a couple of hundred dollars savings, but it ended up with many times more work and a heck of a lot of dead grass that took two months to grow back.

Bet I am not the only one around here that has tried to save a little bit of money and shot my self in the foot.

Turned out good and sprinkles the heck out of what I wanted sprinkled, we just won't talk about the rest of the story.