Sudden smoke problem with 2520

[GordNovo]

Hello all, encountered a sudden problem today with my 2520..and it's got me a little nervous that it could be a serious issue. Was running the machine for about 2 hrs with the FEL and box blade, moving some stone and gravel, so the engine was quite warm. No signs of engine overheating via the dash light though. While I was off the machine adjusting the sway on the box blade I looked up and suddenly noticed a large amount of smoke pouring from the exhaust. Engine was at approx 2200 rpm at the time. I quickly turned it off, thinking I blew a gasket maybe. The smoke smelled very oily, unlike the smell you usually get with a blown gasket. After a couple of mins i tried to restart but it seemed to be seized up.. the engine cranked a 1/2 turn, then stopped completely. it made very 'crunchy' kind of sounds when it tried to turn over. It has never done that before!! I tried to start again a few more times, but couldn't get it the engine to turn over... it just kept doing the same thing.. 1/2 crank, then nothing, no motion. After a few more mins, I tried again, and finally got the engine to turn over and finally it fired up but again it smoked like a bugger! I noticed the smoke is grey in color and is fairly faint when idling, but if I increase the RPM, the smoke is very evident. Plus the engine is definitely misfiring, both at idle and at faster speeds.

I checked the oil and it seemed to be over the full mark, suggesting a blown gasket, but the smoke doesn't smell like it though.

I immediately loaded it on the trailer and dropped it at the dealer this evening, hoping they'll have a look at it soon for me. it's got 260 hrs on it. First oil change at 50 hrs in the fall last year, and 2nd oil change this spring at 160.

i've read similar posts suggesting a bad injector, or maybe fuel or possibly still a gasket. I think I can rule out fuel since it ran nicely for 2 hrs before hand.

The thing that's got me perplexed is the seized up symptom when I tried starting it when the problem first arose.

GN

 

[ddivinia]

Hello all, encountered a sudden problem today with my 2520..and it's got me a little nervous that it could be a serious issue. Was running the machine for about 2 hrs with the FEL and box blade, moving some stone and gravel, so the engine was quite warm. No signs of engine overheating via the dash light though. While I was off the machine adjusting the sway on the box blade I looked up and suddenly noticed a large amount of smoke pouring from the exhaust. Engine was at approx 2200 rpm at the time. I quickly turned it off, thinking I blew a gasket maybe. The smoke smelled very oily, unlike the smell you usually get with a blown gasket. After a couple of mins i tried to restart but it seemed to be seized up.. the engine cranked a 1/2 turn, then stopped completely. it made very 'crunchy' kind of sounds when it tried to turn over. It has never done that before!! I tried to start again a few more times, but couldn't get it the engine to turn over... it just kept doing the same thing.. 1/2 crank, then nothing, no motion. After a few more mins, I tried again, and finally got the engine to turn over and finally it fired up but again it smoked like a bugger! I noticed the smoke is grey in color and is fairly faint when idling, but if I increase the RPM, the smoke is very evident. Plus the engine is definitely misfiring, both at idle and at faster speeds.

I checked the oil and it seemed to be over the full mark, suggesting a blown gasket, but the smoke doesn't smell like it though.

I immediately loaded it on the trailer and dropped it at the dealer this evening, hoping they'll have a look at it soon for me. it's got 260 hrs on it. First oil change at 50 hrs in the fall last year, and 2nd oil change this spring at 160.

i've read similar posts suggesting a bad injector, or maybe fuel or possibly still a gasket. I think I can rule out fuel since it ran nicely for 2 hrs before hand.

The thing that's got me perplexed is the seized up symptom when I tried starting it when the problem first arose.

GN

Man, that sucks. Let us know what they find.

D.

 

[TedLaRue]

The thing that's got me perplexed is the seized up symptom when I tried starting it when the problem first arose.

The "seized up" symptom could have been caused by liquid in a cylinder preventing one of the pistons from completing a compression stroke. For a high-compression engine, it wouldn't take much liquid to stop it from turning over.

When you didn't crank the engine for several minutes, maybe coolant in the cylinder leaked past the rings and into the crankcase so you were then able to crank the engine.

As ddivinia requests, please let us know what the outcome is.

 

[AKfish]

Whoa.. water or coolant leaking into a cylinder is very bad! Water doesn't compress and if there's enough water in the cylinder and the engine fires up --- there goes your piston or rod into chunks!!

Sure hope it's not that...

AKfish

 

[irwin]

Bad news GN, however you are still under warranty right? 24 months 2000hours. I'd be glad this happened now, not 30 months into ownership Maybe you can get a loaner?

I agree with Ted, it sounds like a hydro-lock situation. You did right getting it to the dealer right away. AK is right about the dangers of liquid in a cylinder, but it sounds like this one made it. I've have the doubtful pleasure of telling more than one nice person that their engine has suffered fatal damage from hydro-lock. Very few were within warranty protection.

Good luck..keep us informed..........

 

[kennyd]

That SUCKS big time

 

[ddivinia]

Sounds like a blow head gasket. Could you tell what was in the oil? Water in the oil?

Maybe it is a bad fuel injector - leaking lots of fuel or something. It is was water, wouldn't the smoke be white?

D.

 

[nmu98]

Sounds like a blow head gasket. Could you tell what was in the oil? Water in the oil?

Maybe it is a bad fuel injector - leaking lots of fuel or something. It is was water, wouldn't the smoke be white?

D.

I will put my money on a stuck open injector. That would pour smoke and hydrolock the cyl. when shut down.

 

[GordNovo]

They're looking at it today and will let me know.

Thanks fellas.

GN

 

[Gizmo2]

I will put my money on a stuck open injector. That would pour smoke and hydrolock the cyl. when shut down.

Not getting my money, I agree.

 

[GordNovo]

There's one more symptom that I forgot to mention last night....

When I went to dismount the FEL, the bucket would not 'curl in'. All the other functions worked fine. The 3ph worked fine too.

GN

 

[GordNovo]

OK, got word back from the dealer. A seal between the hydraulic pump and motor went, leaking hyd fluid into the motor. That explains the high oil level, the grey, oily smoke and hydro lock, plus the unresponsive curl on the FEL.

Tech tells me it's actually not so bad and other damage is not likely. He has the part on order from the US and will have back to me by Friday. All under warranty.

I asked him if he thought I was working the machine too hard, he said the pump's got diverters in place to prevent over exertion.

Phew!!

 

[ddivinia]

OK, got word back from the dealer. A seal between the hydraulic pump and motor went, leaking hyd fluid into the motor. That explains the high oil level, the grey, oily smoke and hydro lock, plus the unresponsive curl on the FEL.

Tech tells me it's actually not so bad and other damage is not likely. He has the part on order from the US and will have back to me by Friday. All under warranty.

I asked him if he thought I was working the machine too hard, he said the pump's got diverters in place to prevent over exertion.

Phew!!

Well, it sounds like it could be worse. Of course, it isn't up and running again yet.

D.

 

[flyngti]

Tech tells me it's actually not so bad and other damage is not likely. He has the part on order from the US and will have back to me by Friday. All under warranty.

Yeah, phew is right! "All under warranty" is music to the ears.

 

[Runner]

Yeah, that's good news, Gord. Still pretty spooky to think that something as simple as a bad seal on the hydraulic pump could completely trash your engine at any moment. Must be a pretty rare occurence, don't think I remember ever reading about it happening on here before.

 

[AKfish]

Good news - Gord. Not nearly as catastrophic as it first appeared and your wallet is covered...

A question though; how did the hydraulic fluid end up in the combustion chamber? Oil in the crankcase (in a good engine) doesn't end up as smoke in the exhaust; typically.

AKfish

 

[irwin]

Good news - Gord. Not nearly as catastrophic as it first appeared and your wallet is covered...

A question though; how did the hydraulic fluid end up in the combustion chamber? Oil in the crankcase (in a good engine) doesn't end up as smoke in the exhaust; typically.

AKfish

Had a customer drive up to my shop with a smoking car, thought it was a goner, ended up she figured it needed oil for some reason and added 4 quarts.
Would have to be talking about a lot of hydraulic oil in crankcase.( think hyd.oil filling up to bottom of cylinders) It could happen, sounds like it did.

 

[FastPauly]

Irwin...that reminds me of the first car my neighbor buddy bought when we were in our early teens. If I recall, it was a late fifties Chrysler...he decided to do the right thing and change the oil in his new ride. Went over to see how he was making out....there laid 21 empty Quaker State cans on the ground. He filled her up till she wouldn't take no more....was then complainig about having to buy a new battery cause the motor wouldn't start. A mechanic he wasn't.....but I think he learned a few things on the topic that particular day..

....yep, that was back in the day when a case of oil was a real case of oil.....it had 24 quarts.

 

[GordNovo]

Good news - Gord. Not nearly as catastrophic as it first appeared and your wallet is covered...

A question though; how did the hydraulic fluid end up in the combustion chamber? Oil in the crankcase (in a good engine) doesn't end up as smoke in the exhaust; typically.

AKfish

I think the engine basically overfilled with oil, causing it to leak into the pistons..but I'm not positive.

Latest Update: Didn't speak to the mechanic directly, but according to his notes as read by the service manager, the hyd pump was replaced, new oil put into engine and tranny, but it's still puffing smoke at high RPMs, and so I wasn't able to pick it up today. Hopefully get more info on Monday... looks like more damage maybe.. possible piston damage?!?

 

[AKfish]

Ouch! That ain't good when the mechanic keeps droppin' those shoes...

Yup - methinks you're pretty close to the problem; cracked maybe or a broken ring(s).

Keep us posted; Gord.

AKfish