ZD ZTM and a Cyclone Rake

[jambx]

I was wondering if anyone has had any experiences with a ZTM coupled to a tow behind leaf vac.

I have a Cyclone Rake that I used on my BX22 and 60 inch MMM at my 2 acre "flat" property and vowed not to use a rake on leaves ever again and since I have replaced the BX with a ZD21 this past year I am worried about straining the hyrdo when towing the ~400lbs (when full) accessory.

I was able to speak to two users (of a ZD21 coupled to a Cyclone Rake) and both have told me they have had no problems to date.

Any comments concerns on using a ZTM in a towing capacity is greatly appreciated.

 

[art]

Go for it! I'd only worry about hills and a loaded trailers push while descending and the possibility for a slide.

 

[CHDinCT]

If your property is truely flat you might get away with it. I know my cylcone rake if full of wet leaves weighs guite a bit and I can feel it tug my wheel horse a little if going accross a slope. I did not think ZTMs were designed to pull much weight so first I'd do is check what the limits of your ZTM are- it state what the towing limits are in the manual.

 

[jambx]

If your property is truely flat you might get away with it. I know my cylcone rake if full of wet leaves weighs guite a bit and I can feel it tug my wheel horse a little if going accross a slope. I did not think ZTMs were designed to pull much weight so first I'd do is check what the limits of your ZTM are- it state what the towing limits are in the manual.

Yea I know what you mean. When I was pulling the CR with my BX22 I could feel / hear the hydros due to the weight, The Cyclone Rake shipping weight is 250#'s so i would guess that when the hopper is completely full its got to be at least double (~500#'s).

The ZD's manual states nothing about towing capacity. I have also checked with two dealers and they all give me is the deer in the headlights look. I also emailed Kubota - their responce didnt address my question - all they said was that the ZDs 21 horsepower may not be enough powered.

My real concern is the transmission. With a very flat property and going slow I would think it would be ok but I do recall when i operated the BX the lengh of the tractor / rake were such that at times I needed to jockey the tractor back and forth. I just want to be sure I dont ruin the tranny.

When I spoke to the two other guys operating the CR and a ZD they have had zero trouble. In fact one operated the largest CR.

 

[Ron D.]

I would definitely not pull anything that heavy with a ZTM. I read just recently, and tried to find the post here and at Lawnsite, but can't remember where I read it. But anyway, the thread went something like this.... a ZD owner took his Kubota to the dealer because of a failed pump. He had used his mower to pull various yard implements.The mechanic said that he had seen several pump failures from people pulling implements with their ZT's, and had commented to the owner that the pumps were designed to operate the mower, not the added strain of implements.

I don't know if this is correct, but it makes sense to me. I don't know what pumps cost for Kubota's, but for many brands appear to be in the $800 range. My guess is Kubota pumps are higher.

 

[amigauser]

Another concern could be turning the ZTR. Obviously it can spin on its own access and if you forget the Cyclone is back there and attempt that well

 

[jambx]

Another concern could be turning the ZTR. Obviously it can spin on its own access and if you forget the Cyclone is back there and attempt that well

The CR hook up is like a 3 pt hitch without the top link so there is no problem with respect to turing.

Ron D. - thanks - you didnt make my day. I still poke around the web and see if I can find the artical - I would be suprised if there wasnt an additional load on the ZD. I still think since my property is flat and if I go slow it should not be a real problem.

I am begining to think since there are so few responces with folks with a ZTM that tow with its a no no no matter how you look at it.

Bummer - I may have to get the rake out once again.

Bummer.

 

[CHDinCT]

I would definitely not pull anything that heavy with a ZTM. I read just recently, and tried to find the post here and at Lawnsite, but can't remember where I read it. But anyway, the thread went something like this.... a ZD owner took his Kubota to the dealer because of a failed pump. He had used his mower to pull various yard implements.The mechanic said that he had seen several pump failures from people pulling implements with their ZT's, and had commented to the owner that the pumps were designed to operate the mower, not the added strain of implements.

I don't know if this is correct, but it makes sense to me. I don't know what pumps cost for Kubota's, but for many brands appear to be in the $800 range. My guess is Kubota pumps are higher.

Don't know if this is what you're referring to but here's a post by eddiewalker on a ZTR thread down in the Lawn& Garden forum.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/lawn-garden/144338-why-no-commercial-kubota-ztrs.html#post1668783

 

[Ron D.]

CHDinCT, that's the thread I was referencing, just couldn't remeber where I read it. Good find.

Jambx, don't want to rain on your parade any more, but I also read on lawnsite where an individual was discussing pulling a plug areator behind his ZTM, and although it did a better job going slow, he noticed increased heat in the pumps from going slow vrs going faster, and was concerned about frying his pumps if he continued to pull it too slow. His mower was a commercial model, can't remember the brand, but I know it wasn't a diesel Kubota.

You're right about the lack of info on pulling stuff with a ZTM. The two posts that I mention are far from conclusive, just a couple of people's opinions, but I would still be very hesistant to pull anything if you're looking for longevity out of your mower. The purchase of an inexpensive, small tractor, like possibly a Yanmar if you need 3 point, or an $800 Craftman garden tractor if you don't need 3 point (if it's adequate), might be an option worth considering to pull your implements.

Let us know what you do.

 

[jambx]

Thanks guys.

I am leaning to not use the ZD with the CR.

What i may end up doing is using a leaf blower and corraling the leaves into piles then drive the CR up to the piles with the B2920 then suck them in using a extension on the CR vacume motor (you can get up to a 30 foor hose and just suck then in)

Cyclone Rake Estate Vacuum

The only negative is the leaves will not go through a mower to be pre-mulched.

Still undecided which way I will go but it is deflating when one shells out a lot of money for the ZTM and it lacks a design to pull at the very least some light tools.

 

[art]

The hydro's used on the Kubota are some of the largest in the industry meaning some of the strongest. It isn't the job that I'd worry so much about or what seems to be the conditions but who might else try it if they see you are successful!

The hydro's used on the tractors they show are far smaller then the ones in the Kubota, the Kubota actually will be more then double the weight of the tractors used in their brouchure.

I don't like to sell hitches on three wheel mower like Scags and the Ferris from what I've seen people do. People still want them and for many it will not be an issue but for some it is an accedent waiting to happen!

 

[CHDinCT]

jambx,

You might want to send an e-mail to Kubota seeking advice before you give up on the ZTM with cyclone rake. Here's their contact page. Might take them a few days to get back to you, but hopefully, they tell you more than "call your local dealer".

Kubota Tractor Corporation - Contact Us

 

[Stonehaller]

I use a DR 9.00 Premier lawn vac with an older White 18HP zero turn and a Scag zero turn (two different properties). I have not had a problem with either. You need to watch the turns, especially when the vac is near full. I don't think the hydros get any hotter than when I am mowing, but I have only done a nonscientific, get your hand close enough to feel the heat test. If the hydros or cooler gets too hot you are overloading it. I suspect that there is not excessive heat build up since you have to drive a lot slower when using the lawn vac verses just mowing, plus the weather is cooler.

 

[jambx]

Once again thanks for all the responces.

Funny but from one of the post replies was to get a cheapo lawn tractor for -the CR - on craigslist it looks like ~$500 would give me a platform that I could use soley for the leave job but that would mean another engine, more blades to sharpen, another oil change, less space in the barn....not the best solution.

I did in fact leave another request with Kubota - I would mainly like to know what they rate the ZD21's towing capacity - the manual says nothing.

I am now leaning towards trying it. Since I will not be using this combination more than 2~3 times / year and with my land being flat I am sure it wont have much of (if at all) a detramental effect.

I'll post Kubotas replay when I hear from them.

~jim

 

[milkman]

I have read of some of the ZD21's having transmission problems, I bought one that was rebuilt by the dealer, and it is obvious that the mower had wheel weights and filled tires. One of the causes of the failure in the 21's was low trans fluid level and operating on hillsides. The dealer told me that the solution is to run them over the full mark, to the top of the flat end of the dipstick, and there will be no problems. I would not be afraid to use the CR in your situation, flat ground and a few times through the season, my main concern with pulling something with a ZTR would be forgetting and turning too short which won't be a problem with the way the CR mounts and turns on caster wheels.

 

[jambx]

Here is Kubotas answer to my question of what was the ZD21's towing capacity. As you can see Kubota does not elaborate or go into much detail.

I am now thinking of passing on hooking the CR up to the ZD. I'll corral the leaves and use the 2920 to haul up to it and just suck them in. Not perfect but I still dont have to haul a tarp!

--------

Dear Jim,

Thank you for your email to Kubota. Unfortunately, we don't have the
towing capacity for your ZD21 since we it's not approved to tow but I hope
you find the information below to be somewhat useful...

maximum load front axle (2wd)--lbs (kg):
375 (170)

maximum rear axle load--lbs (kg):
1144 (520)

 

[mx185sw]

I am new to this site, but joined so I could share my experience with the Cyclone rake XL and my Zero Turn Mower. I own a bobcat predator pro with a 61 inch deck and hooked up the Cyclone rake XL model. From a performance aspect, my mower has a 37 Hp engine and the large 16cc pumps. I had no issue at all with over heating the pumps and the mower can turn VERY sharp only when the Cyclone rake is empty and light. When it is half full or more, you want to take wider turns so you don't stress anything. I believe you should be fine if you use it reasonably at moderate speeds. Although my mower can move at a very brisk pace, I would not recommend doing so with a load in the leaf vac just to be safe. Backing up with the mower is ok also.

 

[jambx]

MX,

Thanks for your comments - funny but I live one town over from the Cyclone Rake company and stopped in to get some more info. The owner came over to me and said I had nothing to worry about. He has sold countless Rakes to the ZTM community and has had zero complaints. He also laughed when I asked him about stressing a larger ZTM like the Kubota. he felt that type of mower was very very well built and as long as I went slow I should be fine. So I proceeded to purchase the hitch bracket - bolted the Rake up to the ZD - modified the adapter for the mower and off I went. I did exactly as you described - I made wide turns - went slow and tried as best i could not to stree the machine when the hopper was full - conclusion I love "raking" my leaves once again!