Your last generator Maintenance Run

[3930dave]

Sorry to hear about your friend grs, you have my condolences.

I didn't realize the sensors were integrated into the Valve.... but I probably should have guessed that.

So now the average (non-technical) homeowner is left paying $1000+/year just to service their hot-water tank today.....

Reminds me.... should have built the drain-back solar hot-water system already !

Rgds, D.

 

[grsthegreat]

There’s alot of info on the web about defeating the water heater sensor. Those things makes a $2,000 water heater useless because you dared to start your car.

I told friend about an honest ac guy i know that made it right. I wired up unit last sunday. Install of split pump took about 2 hours. I guess the other guys wanted to make like $6,000 per hour. It was a simple back to back install.

 

[3930dave]

I replaced my own water heaters, been doing that kind of work for many years. Cost at least half of hiring it out…maybe saved even more with todays estimates…. ( complete side track. I had a friend get an estimate from 3 hvac companies to install a split system heat pump for 1 room of house…. Lowest bid was $16,000 plus electrical.this for a $2,500 system cost….. another customer wanted 2 Generac Smart Management Modules replaced because one of the old ones failed. Company quoted $880 each. All you need to do is replace a $60 control board. I charged him for 2 boards plus service call. He gave me $100 tip.)

But i digress. My biggest problem replacing my direct vent units was no one stocked propane. Everything was nat gas. I had to get them delivered direct from manufacturer. Took like 3 weeks. Luckily i had twin units. I simply was able to survive using 1 of them. Dont know what i would have done if i didnt have 2. I checked in 3 states for one. No one had one.

I didn't realize propane units were that scarce. Though, stock for even common parts can be thin today.... darn bean-counters.

Good examples of insane bids ^. Paying somebody-else to do pretty much anything is beyond belief, today.

Rgds, D.

 

[grsthegreat]

The hardest part for me was getting the units out and the new units installed by myself when they were 2 feet up on a platform. I installed the original ones before the walls and doors were installed.

Finally it hit me….i backed in my flatbed trailer and simply used a refer dolly and simply rolled them out and the new ones in. Piece o cake.

Was dreading lifting these things at my age.

 

[3930dave]

There’s alot of info on the web about defeating the water heater sensor. Those things makes a $2,000 water heater useless because you dared to start your car.

I told friend about an honest ac guy i know that made it right. I wired up unit last sunday. Install of split pump took about 2 hours. I guess the other guys wanted to make like $6,000 per hour. It was a simple back to back install.

Simple - just buy EVs to drive - Quit Resisting !

Those guys must wear face-masks to hide identity, when doing those installations !

Rgds, D.

 

[JRH02]

Thinking of the olde pilot-light natgas water heater

That old expansion bulb in the pilot light is a tried and true mechanical device and if/when they failed it was in to the safe side. Now with the electronics about anything can happen?

As for the CO sensors on modern generators I hate it with a passion. A HUGE number of generator problems are because of the CO sensor. THAT is why you see questions on other sites wanting to disable them. My unit has the CO an oil sensor combined - either kills the ignition with a delay.

 

[5030]

Yesterday at 3pm and 4pm, both my propane fored Generac that powers the house as well as my turbo diesel powered Generac that powers the shop and outbuildings exercised right on time, as usual.

Nice having turnkey units.

 

[3930dave]

Yesterday at 3pm and 4pm, both my propane fored Generac that powers the house as well as my turbo diesel powered Generac that powers the shop and outbuildings exercised right on time, as usual.

Nice having turnkey units.

An application ^ of Tech, I much like... it would help with my memory/Time Seems to Go Faster issues

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

CO events.... most Winters, happens here. Often, New Canadians, but not exclusively. One of the former, last Winter or one before, put the whole family in hospital, with an extended warm-up of a car, inside an attached garage.

So, that's why the industry has put them on new generators. I don't have a new enough one, yet, but if I did, I'd probably glance @ the schematic, so I'd know how to bypass if/when it fails.

Typing that ^, brought me to: household (Kidde etc) CO sensors time out/expire @ something like 7 years. Anybody know the lifespan-story on what Gen manuf are spec'ing ?

Then there is the general problem of lowest bidder sensors, failing prematurely..... had an extended conversation with my HVAC-contractor neighbour recently, about explosive-vapour sensors that are mandated on natgas hot water tanks. I'd read a detailed post on the Home Depot site, from a homeowner that was aggressively refused warranty-service on a vapour sensor failure, just months after installation. (Excuse was "Because you painted the basement".) These ^ sensors fail randomly, often for no explainable-cause.

It's also gotten worse lately, with building A/C. Latest "refrigerant" is basically Propane, sans odourizer. Wish I was joking. So.... these new systems will come with all sorts of extra safety systems too.....

I'm pro-safety. Uncommon-Sense could cure most of these problems, but can be Dodo-rare today. What does NOT impress me is mandated-shutdown systems, cheaply done.

Lacking hot-water is annoying. A no-start generator @ -40C/F, or when my sump is rising @ x feet/hr.....

Rgds, D.

Many of the safety enhancements to overcome poor judgement affect reliability and a headache for residential property managers.

I’ve had too many no power calls with GFCI circuits and each one was on tenant… defective vacuum, lamp, refrigerator… the GFCI was doing its thing but it became my problem.

The tenant refrigerator was dirty with a blocked condensate drain allowing condensate to drip on the compressor controls tripping the breaker… tenant expected me to replace $500 worth of food… this is why I don’t furnish any free standing in unit appliances.

 

[ultrarunner]

I didn't realize propane units were that scarce. Though, stock for even common parts can be thin today.... darn bean-counters.

Good examples of insane bids ^. Paying somebody-else to do pretty much anything is beyond belief, today.

Rgds, D.

In the old days I would often buy water heaters and in a cloth bag would be the jet for propane if natural gas or natural gas if propane.

Now it’s not supposed be field modified is what I was told.

I had a sealed A.O. Smith unit where the manufacturer came out so many times the manufacturer refunded my money without me asking and said don’t call us anymore.

I replaced with Bradford White and so far so good with about a dozen Bradford White installs.

I miss the days of $88 Home Depot 30 gallon hot water heaters with 3 year warranty that lasted 15.

My go to for decades was Hoyt made right here in Oakland… was great going to the source when my 45 year old lifetime warrant copper tank was leaking… they took care of it…

When my retired friend needed to replace his propane unit in the mountains he couldn’t find one.

I called his propane supplier who could install the next day as too late for same day.

The propane dealer stocked water heaters and stoves in house.

 

[ultrarunner]

ARC fault are soon becoming a new problem for landlords… they don’t like older vacuum cleaners… at least twice now for me.

The people that dream this stuff up should be forced to do a year of field service first.

 

[grsthegreat]

ARC fault are soon becoming a new problem for landlords… they don’t like older vacuum cleaners… at least twice now for me.

The people that dream this stuff up should be forced to do a year of field service first.

Ark faults have always had issues, but mostly with the older era breakers. I havnt heard of the same issues with newer breakers.

 

[5030]

Gone are the days of legacy appliances. Today, it's maybe 10 and landfill.

I will say my ancient Maytag Wringer in the shop will outlast me, just like it outlasted my wife's mother. Best shop towel machine ever made. No cycles, just run until done...

 

[5030]

Both my Geberacs being over 15 years old now 'lack' all the fancy failure prone crap the new ones come with. No digital readout just condition lamps and manual main breakers but I do have to service them on a regular scheduled maintenance interval, which I have the entire time.

 

[ultrarunner]

Gone are the days of legacy appliances. Today, it's maybe 10 and landfill.

I will say my ancient Maytag Wringer in the shop will outlast me, just like it outlasted my wife's mother. Best shop towel machine ever made. No cycles, just run until done...

Is it gasoline powered?

I’m still running moms avocado green kenmore 90 series washer dryer pair from the late 60’s and her Amana freezer same era… and happy about it!

 

[daugen]

there is a long history of folks dying from CO poisoning in rvs and houseboats of all things.
generators running on houseboats would trap CO under boat and killed some swimmers.
all rv's today have to have a hard wired CO detector installed, but I have always installed a second
smoke/gas detector that is battery powered. If ever you want belt and suspenders it's making sure you don't
die from an odorless gas.

I learned how sensitive they are when I sprayed some bug spray near the hard wired one in motorhome.
took a while to shut that thing off, had to use small leaf blower to blow a lot of air through it.
I have a CO detector in my bedroom, my living room and my basement.

my portable 10kw gen sits under a closed window off living room. Always wondered about that, Anderson window, guess it has a good seal, but
could not install a permanent Generac that close. I make sure the exhaust is pointed out into yard of course.

 

[5030]

Is it gasoline powered?

I’m still running moms avocado green kenmore 90 series washer dryer pair from the late 60’s and her Amana freezer same era… and happy about it!

Yes and it runs just fine. Bit smokey but I run it in canned gas.

 

[3930dave]

Many of the safety enhancements to overcome poor judgement affect reliability and a headache for residential property managers.

I’ve had too many no power calls with GFCI circuits and each one was on tenant… defective vacuum, lamp, refrigerator… the GFCI was doing its thing but it became my problem.

The tenant refrigerator was dirty with a blocked condensate drain allowing condensate to drip on the compressor controls tripping the breaker… tenant expected me to replace $500 worth of food… this is why I don’t furnish any free standing in unit appliances.

My only GFI is on my deck (old house), and it was already here decades ago when we bought the place. Mine is still working fine.

Neighbour has gone through 2 GFI on her deck, house is about 25 y/o. First time, I thought it was a broken wire, so asked her to call an Electrician (I don't have a Fox/Hound) but was just a dead GFI. Fool Me Once.... about 3 years ago, she hired a guy to pressure-wash her deck and that side of the house.... he ran her well dry, and sprayed enough water near the GFI he killed that one too..... so I replaced the last one for her myself.

If it was just her deck on that circuit, it would be one thing, but it was wired with the attached single garage on that loop too.... so when it fails, there is no light in her garage. So much for Safety.... she is quite active, but is elderly and lives alone.

Built to A Price is part of the problem, but as noted by others, various in-use conflicts happen too....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

In the old days I would often buy water heaters and in a cloth bag would be the jet for propane if natural gas or natural gas if propane.

Now it’s not supposed be field modified is what I was told.

Should still be legal (outside of your State) if someone is a licensed gas-fitter.

When our Elec cost was on a really high trajectory, I was taking a serious look @ the Sunfrost gas units for a refrigerator/freezer.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

there is a long history of folks dying from CO poisoning in rvs and houseboats of all things.
generators running on houseboats would trap CO under boat and killed some swimmers.
all rv's today have to have a hard wired CO detector installed, but I have always installed a second
smoke/gas detector that is battery powered. If ever you want belt and suspenders it's making sure you don't
die from an odorless gas.

I learned how sensitive they are when I sprayed some bug spray near the hard wired one in motorhome.
took a while to shut that thing off, had to use small leaf blower to blow a lot of air through it.
I have a CO detector in my bedroom, my living room and my basement.

my portable 10kw gen sits under a closed window off living room. Always wondered about that, Anderson window, guess it has a good seal, but
could not install a permanent Generac that close. I make sure the exhaust is pointed out into yard of course.

Not being a boater, I hadn't heard about that houseboat issue.

Now I'm really curious (future reading) about the lifespan of CO detectors on modern generators.

Rgds, D.