Your last generator Maintenance Run

[3930dave]

And that is exactly what brought me here to ask the question. Unfortunately, it still hasn’t been answered.

I’ll continue my quest for an explanation and report back if I find one.
Thank you everyone for your contributions to the search.

It's been an interesting discussion. Keep us posted when you find out more, and as you progress with your control project.

Rgds, D.

 

[Popgadget]

Here is some insight as to a possible reason that Generac used DC Coils. This is about the most definitive thing that I have found. There are other functional differences, but they wouldn’t really be applicable.
To be clear, the integration of My Onan transfer switch to control both a Generac switch and Generac generator has benn complete and works well. The generator supplies both my house and workshop through separate switches in the event of a utility failure. It was my research of the Generac switch that prompted the question, but it was out of curiosity, everything was already working as I wished.


This is from Sciencing.com-

AC solenoids can run the risk of burning out if they malfunction and remain stuck in the open (full-current) position for too long. The current that runs through an AC solenoid starts with a first rush of extremely strong current, then drops to a lower, normal level. If the solenoid stays open too long and receives too much of this first wave of maximum current, it can permanently damage the device. By contrast, DC solenoids experience no alteration in currents and do not run the risk of being damaged by the current.

 

[grsthegreat]

Here is some insight as to a possible reason that Generac used DC Coils. This is about the most definitive thing that I have found. There are other functional differences, but they wouldn’t really be applicable.
To be clear, the integration of My Onan transfer switch to control both a Generac switch and Generac generator has benn complete and works well. The generator supplies both my house and workshop through separate switches in the event of a utility failure. It was my research of the Generac switch that prompted the question, but it was out of curiosity, everything was already working as I wished.


This is from Sciencing.com-

AC solenoids can run the risk of burning out if they malfunction and remain stuck in the open (full-current) position for too long. The current that runs through an AC solenoid starts with a first rush of extremely strong current, then drops to a lower, normal level. If the solenoid stays open too long and receives too much of this first wave of maximum current, it can permanently damage the device. By contrast, DC solenoids experience no alteration in currents and do not run the risk of being damaged by the current.

that sounds plausible. but they will still burn out during a long brownout. seen it happen enough that i installed a brown out kit on mine. but the greatest cause i see in burnt out coils are the homeowner leaving that stupid manual handle in the switch itself, then closing the cover. coil sticks due to the handle and coils burn out.

 

[BrokenTrack]

Not knowing the exact amp meter installed in your panel I can't say for sure, but.
Most of those meters are set up for CTs (current transformer) to feed them,
not as feed through current meters.
The CTs are bought for the meter scaling and will often provide a 0 to 5 volt signal for 0 to full scale.
So you can put the CT around any single hot leg and wire the leads back to the Current meter.

These are Feed Through Current Amp Meters, but it does not work as I currently have it wired up.

I have not decided if I am going to reconfigure the wiring. It would tell me how many amps I am producing, but the hertz and voltage is the more critical information. At 60 hertz I produce 250 volts, which is 5 volts higher then grid power at 60 hertz, but I doubt that 5 extra volts is going to hurt anything.

With my 27 HP tractor, I can only put out 18 KW out of this 20 KW generator, but I doubt my house is even coming close to 18 KW for consumption. My biggest consumer is an electric hot water heater. That works in conjunction with my well pump, but after it breaks inertia, that really is not a huge current draw either. My other appliances are propane.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

With my 27 HP tractor, I can only put out 18 KW out of this 20 KW generator,

It would be a "magic" 27hp tractor that could maintain 18kw out of it's pto...

SR

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Boy, you don’t check a forum for a few days...

On the solenoid discussion, all manufacturers I’m familiar with who use solenoids use DC solenoids. I’m not very familiar with Generac, but Zenith and Asco use DC solenoids mainly because an AC solenoid operates so fast it will damage the mechanism. Most large industrial ATSs use line voltage on the bridge rectifier to drive the solenoid - 208, 480 or 600V as the transformer sizes required to drive the large solenoids used on switches up to 3 or 4000 amps are cost prohibitive. The varister shown is to quench the voltage spike produced when the solenoid is de-energized. More often a diode is used but you need a high current diode on a large solenoid so a varister is usually cheaper. Google suppression or freewheeling diodes for what they are doing here.

Onan switches mostly use linear motors which is a completely different animal.

With the exception of home standby consumer ATSs, transfer controls are interchangeable, they all do the same thing. They all sense available utility voltage, when it disappears, a start contact is closed and a contact is closed to supply emergency power to the emergency solenoid. Once the emergency contact is closed, the emergency aux contact breaks the circuit and de-energized the solenoid. When utility returns the process is the same with the utility supply. There may or may not be timers and voltage sensors involved but that is how they all work regardless of what they drive.

 

[fatjay]

Ran my generator for 45min yesterday. It had been resting since august. Choke on, turn key, fired right up and powered my compressor on the side of the yard where I have no power. That thing has been shockingly unreliable for being a cheap chinese 10kw generator.

 

[Popgadget]

On the solenoid discussion, all manufacturers I’m familiar with who use solenoids use DC solenoids. I’m not very familiar with Generac, but Zenith and Asco use DC solenoids mainly because an AC solenoid operates so fast it will damage the mechanism. Most large industrial ATSs use line voltage on the bridge rectifier to drive the solenoid - 208, 480 or 600V as the transformer sizes required to drive the large solenoids used on switches up to 3 or 4000 amps are cost prohibitive. The varister shown is to quench the voltage spike produced when the solenoid is de-energized. More often a diode is used but you need a high current diode on a large solenoid so a varister is usually cheaper. Google suppression or freewheeling diodes for what they are doing here.

Onan switches mostly use linear motors which is a completely different animal.

Thank you very much for a definitive answer. I’ve learned a lot about solenoids In this process. And yes, the actuator and switch in my Onan OT makes the Generac look like a toy. That’s why I kept the Onan switch in place when I replaced my generator with the Generac. I used the Generac switch to transfer my workshop.

 

[3930dave]

Ran my generator for 45min yesterday. It had been resting since august. Choke on, turn key, fired right up and powered my compressor on the side of the yard where I have no power. That thing has been shockingly unreliable for being a cheap chinese 10kw generator.

Working out with a few cinderblocks regularily beats the heck out of having an expensive gym membership you never use....

(I suspect you mean Reliable. :thumbsup.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Thanks for that summary cm !

Rgds, D.