Your last generator Maintenance Run

[grsthegreat]

It is a VERY difficult equation to formulate due to almost unlimited variables.
The best that you can do is evaluate a given generator, it's size and efficiency, at 0% load, 10%, 20%, 30%, etc....
Unfortunately, at least in our usage, 3 hours in the am and 4 hours in the evening, the loads vary from hour to hour and day to day.
Comparing your printer example:
If, when you turned your printer on, it started printing and using ink at a steady rate even though no paper was passing through it, until you actually sent a document to have printed, and eventually ran out of ink; THAT is how efficient generators are.
The printer sets idle and uses ink ONLY on demand. You pay for the ink you use.
Same with the wall socket.
Generators, while very handy and useful are VERY inefficient, compared to the grid.

tell that to those without power in california. Generac stock has gone thru the roof. so many people now want whole house generators out there, there are not enough qualified installers. This is mainly due to californias monstrous epa regulations and permit nightmares. Generac is ramping up tech training and expect sales to be endless for next 10 years. Who really cares how efficient or noisy something is when there is no grid power for 5 days. Also how to effectively gauge cost per hour is impossible. they ramp up and down due to load applied. Mine can run from 1.5 to 3.6 GPH depending on load. Generac Holdings Sees Demand Power Up | The Motley Fool Generator demand surges as PG&E customers struggle to keep lights on | Fox Business

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Mine can run from 1.5 to 3.6 GPH depending on load.

So, at $5.00 per gallon your cost is $7.50 - $18.00 per hour.
That is unacceptable for us. But each to their own.
I'm talking about us, not you or Californians.
We have had many 3 - 5 day outages in the last 30 years.
We use about 5 gallons, maybe slightly less per day.
When I was in HS, I worked on a dairy that had a back-up generator that ran constantly in an outage to keep the milk cool.
That makes sense.
For us, we don't run the generator any more than needed.
The wood stove heats the house in the winter, outage or no outage.
We had an outage for several hours about a week ago.
Lit a candle and played cards, then went to bed.
Power came on before we awoke.
Didn't run any of our 3 generators.

 

[3930dave]

am trying to come up with a measurable repeatable way of comparing unit efficiencies.
Reminds me of ink jet printers, have to compare cost per page.
I'd like that kind of efficiency comparison done between units.
For every amp produced over a six hour usage, how much fuel does the generator need to accomplish that, and have a handy dandy
multiplier in there for calculate your own.

Ignoring longevity, I'm guessing propane -LNG is best, then diesel, then gasoline, then...which kind of gasoline, regular or efi?
Most efficient and most ecological of course are not always the same.

This is the kind of testing that Consumer Reports used to do, granted not always successfully.
Who makes the most efficient generator, the one with the lowest or close to lowest cost per watts produced over say a ten year period, cost of maintenance being
a comparative stat. Perhaps energy efficient badges like they give air conditioners or refrigerators, or most electric appliances.

What was the Renaissance question - The number of angels that could dance on the head of a pin ?

It should be just basic science, but getting the data on portable generators seems at times like that ancient question

I've seen consumption figures on the Honda Power site, but they seem to be hiding the asterisks....... they quote volume per hour, but you need to know what load those asterisks refer to......

Yamaha, a bit better

EF6300iSDE | Yamaha Motor Canada

They at least tell you Full Load and 1/4 Load consumption #'s, but I'd still prefer to see actual Watts defined. (I'd assume fractions of Continuous Power rating......).

Anybody new to gens, I'd say guesstimate what you need for at least 2 days of running, then keep 50% more than that as an Emergency Cache - rotate through vehicles in a timely fashion, adjust cache size as you go....

In the small stuff, Auto Throttle wasn't common 30 years ago, so that can help consumption slightly today. One of the things inverter gens today attain is good weight/size vs. power output - more than a few guys on here have commented on usually grabbing the suitcase gen most of the time, even with one or more others handy - just so darn convenient.....

The other thing I like today, is the option of parallel kits with the small stuff. Run one for light-duty, then 2 in parallel, only as needed.

It would be really handy to see a structured test, constant defined loads, across maybe 3 ranges of portable gens (say 2kw, 5kw, 7-10kw), at maybe 4 power levels. Consumer Reports - listening ?

Efficiency..... I'd probably lean towards DC...... belt up a truck alternator to a small engine, and charge a large battery bank. Run DC directly where you can, otherwise fire up a DC/AC inverter. No, I wouldn't do this to run 5 tons of AC.....

But, taken at a smaller scale, a large UPS/battery bank is a great complement to any generator - why run a generator, if all you need to run for a while is internet connectivity or other light loads.....

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

tell that to those without power in california. Generac stock has gone thru the roof. so many people now want whole house generators out there, there are not enough qualified installers. This is mainly due to californias monstrous epa regulations and permit nightmares. Generac is ramping up tech training and expect sales to be endless for next 10 years. Who really cares how efficient or noisy something is when there is no grid power for 5 days. Also how to effectively gauge cost per hour is impossible. they ramp up and down due to load applied. Mine can run from 1.5 to 3.6 GPH depending on load. Generac Holdings Sees Demand Power Up | The Motley Fool Generator demand surges as PG&E customers struggle to keep lights on | Fox Business

It has been all the talk at the Hospital with the power out... my last home outage was under 40 hours and the one before 19 hours... both within a week's time... got the PGE robo call last night saying it was going out again but it never did.

Half the surgeons have been coming to me with generator questions and about half of them drive electric cars they typically charge from their home and office solar arrays... but those arrays are grid tied so no juice.

It has been interesting to see what works and what doesn't...

The big old sine wave UPS came in handy to charge the cell and laptop... I'm the last holdout with DSL and a rotary phone and both continued working without interruption... all the cable stuff went out pretty quick.

Thinking of getting a whisperized Multi-Quip small diesel genset that I can put on a trailer or pickup bed... so many regs for hardwired generator installs... figure if it is trailer mounted it can be classified as temp power???

The Generac Ads run every couple of hours... they do offer a price and turn key install... I think several of my co-workers are getting them.

It does surprise me that they want the equivalent of Utility Power... automatic and run the entire house... I just don't get it but having maintained larger natural gas gensets I wonder just how many will need commercial gas service meters/lines

Years ago... one of my accounts had a small natural gas unit... I got a call that something was wrong... it was starving for fuel... turns out PGE replaced the meter with a much smaller one only leaving a card saying the meter was changed today...

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Over the years, we have come up with a power outage plan.
We have executed this plan, many, many times and it works very well.
In an outage, we run our generator 3 hours in the morning and 4 at night.
We heat with wood in winter. Lanterns and candles provide light.
1) our 52 gallon water heater is in a closet and will provide hot, or at least warm water for 3 days with no power if managed thoughtfully. In an extended outage we heat it all the way up every 4 days. That takes less than 2 hours of generator power.
2) We are on a well. (2 hp) We turn the water off to each toilet and fill 3 4 gallon square buckets with water next to each. We fill the tank after each use from buckets. Our pressure tank provides an adequate supply water to the house EASILY if managed thoughtfully.
During the day when the generator is down, we have an old 1000 watt generator that can be used to run saws, drills, etc when needed.
When power goes out, we focus on living with AS LITTLE electricity as possible.
That said, I'm talking about normal power outages. 3 - 5 day ones.
When the "BIG ONE" hits, we will have to plan to run for 1/2 hour per day or less in order to make it through with enough fuel.
In that event, the smaller the generator that you can get by with, the better.
That's the attitude we have right now!
For us, the "Whole house" generator is impractical, overkill.

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep... a little foresight and thought go a long way.

Even at the Hospital the emergency generator does not power "Everything"

Life Safety and Critical needs

 

[grsthegreat]

So, at $5.00 per gallon your cost is $7.50 - $18.00 per hour.
That is unacceptable for us. But each to their own.
I'm talking about us, not you or Californians.
We have had many 3 - 5 day outages in the last 30 years.
We use about 5 gallons, maybe slightly less per day.
When I was in HS, I worked on a dairy that had a back-up generator that ran constantly in an outage to keep the milk cool.
That makes sense.
For us, we don't run the generator any more than needed.
The wood stove heats the house in the winter, outage or no outage.
We had an outage for several hours about a week ago.
Lit a candle and played cards, then went to bed.
Power came on before we awoke.
Didn't run any of our 3 generators.

who pays 5 per gallon. I have gotten if for below 0.95 per gal for several years. This year it was a little over 1.60 at its peak. Not sure what it is on the left coast.

 

[ultrarunner]

paid $4.49 last week... SF Bay Area.

 

[grsthegreat]

paid $4.49 last week... SF Bay Area.

Holy cow. That would suck. Lp gas is so cheap now, why so high in calif. This summer it was less than a buck here

 

[grsthegreat]

I stand corrected. I looked up last billing $1.40. Cheaper than I remembered. Still more $$$ than grid power. We pay $0.06 per KWH for electricity. No tier systems. Normally we fill it in summer and it lasts all year, but the wife was nervous about predictions for a sever winter and she had the tank topped off this month. When we had it filled late this spring it was just shy of a buck per gal.

What is the reason for calif high prices. I know some places in calif are outlawing natural gas. Is it 5he same for propane?