Yet Another Well Pump Issue

   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue #1  

QueBota

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
469
Location
People's Republik of Maryland
Tractor
B2910
I guess it isn't really a pump issue but the black "ABS?" line from the well to the pressure tank.

Pardon me while I ramble a bit.

Over the course of the past several months I have noticed the well pump cycling during the night. Our bedroom is directly above the utility room downstairs and it is very noticeable when the pump clicks on and off. I attributed it to a leaky facucet and toilet that I had been slow to repair. I repaired both of those items and the problem persisted. I thought it might have been the anti-drainback valve that was failing but there doesn't appear to be one on the inlet side of the pressure tank. We have the old, large, green, non-bladder pressure tank. Appears to be original to the house, circa 1979. The ABS? pipe enters the utility room through the bottom of the foundation just above the slab. Looks like some odd type of adapter that allows the ABS? pipe to be clamped (hose clamp) directly to the fitting(s) that eventually enter the bottom of the pressure tank at the floor. None of this stuff looks like it has ever been touched.

Discoverd what I think is the major source of the problems yesterday afternoon. We have finally had some rain after a very dry winter/spring. I think the rain, about 4" in about a day, saturated the ground enough to make the spot apparent where the ABS? water supply pipe is leaking between the well cap and the pressure tank. The ground is quite wet/saturated in an area that covers about 3 feet wide by about 8 feet long. There is a natural depression in the "lawn" at this point, which would account for the poolilng of the water.

I have never dealt with a specific situation like this but am pretty handy and do all most all of my repair work.

What is the recommend course of action at this point. I would imagine I have to start carefully digging and try to find the source of the leak. This process is complicated by the fact the my electical service runs in very close proximity to what I image the path the the water supply line to be. I have placed a call to Miss Utility, they indicated their response time could be anywhere from 1 May to 16 May.

To complicate things the area that is being saturated holds three large sweet gum trees that could do major damage to the house if the leaned/fell that way. Currently I have the well pump shut off, only turning it on when absolutely necessary to make my wife and daughters happy. Leak doesn't appear to be a major one at this point. The well pump will cycle about every 12 minutes which equals about 6 gallons of water if my math is correct.

Any advice will be appreciated, I can try to post some pics/drawings when I get off of work this afternoon. Going to go home and begin carefully excavating in search of the water line.

Thanks,
Dave
 
   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue #2  
It seems if you had some sort of drainback valve, that would help the problem on a temporary basis. Think about it, if you fill the well tank and have some sort of one way valve, your leak won't matter except when the well is pumping.
 
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   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Thanks guys, definitely need a short term fix and a more permanent fix.

Pardon me while I ramble some more.

The check valve would work, I am a little leary about near surface contaminents entering the water supply. I would have assumed an anti-drainback valve before the pressure tank and another valve at the bottom of the well on or near the pump. As best as I can tell by looking at this beast, there is no anti-drainback valve at the bottom of the pressue tank, not even a shutoff valve, just a nipple and what looks like a street el with a nipple or slip fit to accomodate the attachment of the incoming black ABS? pipe with what looks like a standard hose clamp. It is located in a corner with minimum access, I can imagine this stuff would be a bear to get apart. Also, whoever did the install left about 3" of the ABS? extending from the wall into the utility room, don't want to foul that up. Never understand why people do that in plumbing or wiring, I always leave a little extra for future repairs.

Having never worked with the ABS? material I am not sure what is the best way to go about repairing/replacing the damaged section/sections. For all I know they could have joined multiple pieces together and it is leaking at a splice. Every job I tear into a this place is worse than the one before. Two hours jobs end up becoming weekend projects.

Is it common for this type of piping to develop leaks? It has been in the ground since 1979. I vaguely remember hearing "horror stories" about some type of water supply pipe failing during that time period.

If I have to tear into the plumbing at the pressue tank in the house I believe I will just replace the old green monster (air charged with a "disk" that seperates liquid and water) with a modern bladder type tank. My neighbor did this not to long ago (needed new well pump). Seems like the new tanks are much smaller and not as susceptible to becoming air logged. At this point I have to recharge my tank about once a year.

Thanks,
Dave
 
   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue #5  
It sounds like your Abs, is probably at its service limit, Might be brittle and hard to work with for repairs?
 
   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I found quite a few "scraps" in the woods surrounding the house when we first moved in and I was cleaning up. Going to see if I can locate them and see what I have. I know I didn't get rid of rid of them, my packrat nature wouldn't allow it, it's just a question of remembering where I put them.

Going to start gently excavating the dry area with my son just below where the leak appears to be. Hopefully we can locate the pipe and work our way towards the leak, making sure to avoid the electric service.

Miss Utility sure has changed. I spent 1/2 hour on the phone with them this AM and they couldn't enter my simple request in the work order "Mark electric service from meter to transformer at front corner of property". They wantted direction, distance and a whole bunch of information that would just confuse the guy/gay that shows up. I am going to leave a sign up for whoever shows up explaining what I want marked. Hopefully they will have enough sense to figure it out. Maybe I will get lucky and be there when they show up, in my experience they are usually nice folks to deal with.

Thanks,
Dave
 
   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue #7  
In our area, its called JULIE, and they have to locate within 24 hours. I wouldn't use any old pipe that was laying around for the repair. Plastic tends to degrade when exposed for a long period of time.
 
   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue #8  
I think you ought to run a new line and put a footvalve in the well as well as a check valve at the tank. With the new line you can leave as much excess as you want and just re-route your inside plumbing to suit.
 
   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue
  • Thread Starter
#9  
In our area, its called JULIE, and they have to locate within 24 hours. I wouldn't use any old pipe that was laying around for the repair. Plastic tends to degrade when exposed for a long period of time.

Thanks for the tip, didn't plan on using it for a repair piece, I'm sure it is worse than what is in the ground. I just wanted to check the size and see what markings may be on it. The genius that installed this line left about 2 inches protruding from the wall, access almost impossible, I am about 6' 2"/250 lb, very similar to the stub that was left under my kitchen sink. If the piece sticking through the wall takes a crap this is going to turn into a major project.

In MD, PA and DE Miss Utility only responds within 24 if contractors/crew is onsight and ready to work or if there is an immediate danger to human life. Homeowners can wait up to two weeks.

Just have to dig carefully and watch out for the electric lines, would like to at least put a patch/repair section on this as soon as I can.

Thanks,
Dave
 
   / Yet Another Well Pump Issue
  • Thread Starter
#10  
I think you ought to run a new line and put a footvalve in the well as well as a check valve at the tank. With the new line you can leave as much excess as you want and just re-route your inside plumbing to suit.

Good advice, long term it would make sense to replace the entire line. Unfortunately all of the water line, as far as I can tell, runs below the electric service lines, based on what I remember from the last time I had it marked. This will involve hand digging up approx. 125' of water line that will be at least 2' deep. Not as young as I used to be, plus I have a lot of other things going right now. Sure can't afford to pay someone to do the job. Perhaps I will head up to the local Latino work site and see if I can get a few workers for the day. The will give you and honest 10 hours for between $80 and $100.

Not sure about a foot valve (what is that) but will definitely put in a check valve at the tank when I replace the old green monster with a newer bladder style tank. I will definitely add valves were appropriate and give myself some room to work.

My well pump is approx. 225' down and has been in service since 1989. The original was replaced in 1989 due to a lighting strike. We have been here since 2002.

Thanks,
Dave
 

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