Comparison Yanmar lawsuit.

[clemsonfor]

I paid $4k for my ym2000 a few years ago cause i was impatient and did not want to wait and drive all over 2 states looking at them. I honetly wish the price would stay low. im not looking to flip my tractor! I like the thoughts of p[icking up one cheap or buying another at a deal.

 

[California]

I suspect all of us out there have had the value of our gray market yanmars go up big time if you have had them for awhile. If Yanmar starts selling branded tractors in the US again, think the value of the grays could take a huge leap up again. ... If the value of the grays gets any better yanmar has to be considering that their might be a great increase in the gray market and they could end up conpeeting with themselves ??

... And, California, I think Van would be prowd. It was on CL 4 days.

I sure miss Van. She was the most effective salesperson I have ever met. She almost had me going about becoming a retailer for her imports until I came to my senses. They (she, her brother the shop manager, and Le - the manager they originally worked for) all provided excellent service when I went there for take-off parts, a Yanmar tiller, and Howse implements. I wanted to see them succeed. Van's later Yanmars, straight from Japan with low hours, were real quality but by then the economy had tanked and nobody was spending money on hobby farm equipment. Last I heard, Van was a registered insurance agent for a major company. I'm sure she will do well at whatever she chooses.

I'm not convinced that importation of grays will ever pick up again. Ernie pointed out that the present currency exchange rate killed all the profit in importing so importing is pointless. And the guy from Japan who posted a couple of months ago had a different perspective on the availability of tractors in Japan for export. To simplify, he said that in the last couple of decades everybody moved to the city and then sold Grandpa's small-farm tractor so there was a temporary surplus of used tractors but by now there are far fewer small tractors traded in. (I know this is different from the tax-policy story we see here, but I'm inclined to believe that guy who actually lives there).

As for increased prices for the grays already here - that sounds reasonable to me. When Yanmar starts advertising, everybody is going to want one.

I don't think Yanmar can halt end-user resales but they seem to be going after retailers who make money using the Yanmar trademark.

 

[clemsonfor]

U make valid points Cali.

I looked a few years ago and found a japaneese company selling containers of yanmars or whatever you wanted. Of course this was only for 10 or 20 depending upon container size. But honetly the price they cost and the fact that you would have to put seats on them belts do wiring , paint some of them etc. there was no money for profit! I mean there was a few hundred bucks but why would i want to pay like $3k for a tractor of unkown quality to have to pay a few hundred to spiffy up for picky buyers just to sell for less than $4k! Heck i can buy the refrubs from fredericks through Spalding in Ga for just a shade over $4000 today, with a year warrenty. (ym2000)

 

[chriswheeler]

While my YM 3000 was up for sale for the 4 days, I got over 25 calls. Something pointed out by one shopper was that there seamed to be a pile of worn out Ford 8N's for sale, and tractors of a like vintage, there wasn't many out there in the 30hp range that weren't run into the ground. The used tractors in this range ran from cheap and on their last legs, to going to a dealer and buying a new one, not many used options inbetween. Might be something happening in just this area, or could extend to west coast ?? I looked up what people were selling YM3000's for nation wide, what the koyker 160 costs, what a 5' rake costs, and totaled this up. Also, Fredricks always seams to have them for sale, looked at what they were asking. Total was 11K, I had room to take mine down to $8500. Normaly, if I was looking at one for that price, I'd also be looking at big 3 tractors much harder than a gray market. Trouble with that here is most of the good used tractors in the big 3 are located on the east coast. Back to the subject of the thread. Yes the cost of the yen will keep the grays out for now. But if this market continues, could become more profitable to import again. Result could end up being Yanmar could end up directly competing with it's own Gray market rigs. Only thing I'm sure of is mine sure heald it's value. Didn't realize Van was giving me such a great deal at the time. And those of us holding gray market yanmars, at least the larger ones, could end up doing quite well at the time of sale. That said, sure going to miss mine.
Chris

 

[Jls6464]

VN usualy recieves completed tractors that need very little repair. However, they will make some minor changes, Paint, Mixed body parts, Ect..
VN has also been known to take bare parts that are recived and re-assymble them to make a tractor. These are the ones I usualy spend 10-15 hours fixing.
The YM series is always consistent. The FX series will not have two of the exact same unit.

 

[clemsonfor]

While my YM 3000 was up for sale for the 4 days, I got over 25 calls. Something pointed out by one shopper was that there seamed to be a pile of worn out Ford 8N's for sale, and tractors of a like vintage, there wasn't many out there in the 30hp range that weren't run into the ground. The used tractors in this range ran from cheap and on their last legs, to going to a dealer and buying a new one, not many used options inbetween. Might be something happening in just this area, or could extend to west coast ?? I looked up what people were selling YM3000's for nation wide, what the koyker 160 costs, what a 5' rake costs, and totaled this up. Also, Fredricks always seams to have them for sale, looked at what they were asking. Total was 11K, I had room to take mine down to $8500. Normaly, if I was looking at one for that price, I'd also be looking at big 3 tractors much harder than a gray market. Trouble with that here is most of the good used tractors in the big 3 are located on the east coast. Back to the subject of the thread. Yes the cost of the yen will keep the grays out for now. But if this market continues, could become more profitable to import again. Result could end up being Yanmar could end up directly competing with it's own Gray market rigs. Only thing I'm sure of is mine sure heald it's value. Didn't realize Van was giving me such a great deal at the time. And those of us holding gray market yanmars, at least the larger ones, could end up doing quite well at the time of sale. That said, sure going to miss mine.
Chris

Ford 8n's are a bit older than any of our yanmars, like by 20 years!!

 

[clemsonfor]

JLS, you kind of contradicting what we have heard about VN buying parts tractors or worn out units and assembling or rebuilding them to running condition. Now if you mean the VN yard here in america receives running tractors i would hope thats the case as at that point there "rebuilt" already. Nice to know about the FX tractors.

What drove me to the yanmar YM was that there were simple and reliable and so fuel efficient. I also work on my own vehicles and such and knew this would be a simple one to hopefully repair if that time came.

As for the Greys competing with the new yanmars or the other 3 makers... i really dont see that as an issue. Someone looking to buy new either just wants a new one or they are unable or unskilled to do anyrepairs. Not saying any on here with a new tractor is that way, but my guess is better than half the folks now buying a new tractor wont change fuel filters them selves or will have to hav someone show them and not just get on a forum. These are not the folks that will just pull a water pump and replace it, they will haul it to the dealer when time comes. Point here is i dont think they will be looking to spend way less money on an "older" looking tractor that they will have to fix when the time comes.

 

[Car Doc]

All I have to say is as long as Hoye and the other parts retailers stay in business we have nothing to worry about.

I would also guess that a smart plan would include (and this is purely my business sense saying this) but if Yanmar really wants grays out of the country they need to buy them and take them on trade and I mean at good prices for US spec tractors.

If they intend to create a hostile owners environment for current legally owned tractors here they will get bit in the arse badly. I would buy older JD with Yanmar power but not new Yanmar US if thats the case. I am not aware of the Kubota case you guys talk about so I may be talking out of my arse? my .002 ymmv as always

 

[California]

The Kubota case was described here long ago. To oversimplify: As trademark owner, Kubota got an order for Customs to deny entry to anything with their trademark on it. Some tractors got stranded on the docks and had to be re-exported which got everyone's attention.

Yanmar-USA and Yanmar-Japan don't have the legal standing to do likewise for some reason so about all they could do was request Ebay to de-list Yanmar auctions - and now finally, sue some importers.

Maybe somebody has a link to those old threads.

 

[clemsonfor]

What about Frederic's? they are not bungleing(i think i made up a word cause i could not think of what i wanted to say) tractors there doing them right so they have far less if any dissatisfied customers like the VN dealers had.

 

[California]

We haven't heard yet if the quality dealers were exempted from the lawsuit letters. I don't know if they would be. One issue is when the VN 'New Rebuilt' dealers sold tractors that aren't up to Yanmar quality. (This continues, I see two VN 'New Rebuilts' on a nearby Craiglist claimed 20 years newer than actual).

But another issue, the one that was hot a few years ago, is the issue of who is liable to cover medical costs when a gray Yanmar operator crashes it with some horribly expensive injury. Let's say he can't earn a living for the rest of his life to pay for his expensive medical treatment and maintenance. Yanmar-USA argued that they weren't even in existence when the tractor was sold new in Japan and I think in early 2012 they finally won dismissal from liability in one such lawsuit. (In that one, the new owner died). But somebody has to stand responsible for medical costs of a permanently disabled owner if he isn't wealthy himself. Taxpayers (the Affordable Care Act, Obamacare) or somebody with 'deep pockets' has to be found to pay the hospital bills. We don't shove patients out of the ER to die in the street like some countries. Yanmar-USA will always be a big fat target. (I retired from the state highway department - which was the deep pocket lifetime support for a few paraplegics who had no other alternative to pay to keep them alive. We lost lawsuits where the jury said there was no other defendant in the picture so we were stuck with the bill because the plaintiff incontestably was injured during use of the highway). Like it not, this is how US law and juries decide who will care for a medical indigent. It is logical for Yanmar-USA to attempt to limit their liability. We shall see ....

 

[clemsonfor]

Thats wrong, unless it can be proved that Yanmar is the reason for the injury beyond doubt there not liable!!!! If some guy with less sense than brain or intoxicated hooks up to a stump pops the clutch at 2000rpm and flips over and breaks his back how in the world can he or his estate sue any tractor maker for that? I see your point though, but that unforchantly (i tried and i cant spell it??) thats the american gov's roll with medicare and state support and SSI.

 

[Car Doc]

Don't forget cigarette company's cancer and micky d's hot coffee stupid lawsuits and probably a hundred other ridiculous suits we put out of mind they were so ludicrous.

 

[clemsonfor]

i just used that example as a generic thing that could happen? I did know though there was a real case with similar incidents.

 

[chriswheeler]

Legal issues aside, having sold my gray market Yanmar, I still have a vested interest. In the process of owning a gray, I discovered that Hoye and Fredricks offer aftermarket parts for John Deere as well. They often sell parts for these at half the price Deere does. Sure hope both survive this and prosper, good for us Deere owners as well. I can imagine lots of people holding grays being in a world of hurt if the parts supply was somehow cut off. Others of us buying Deere parts would loose big time as well. Sure hope both parts sellers are well insulated from all of this.
Chris

 

[knotweed]

It all boils down to two issues. Yanmar does not want the liability and wants a piece of the action. If they can shut down the dealers here, then Yanmar can import these units, upgrade them to USA safety requirements and tack on thousands as used Yanmars.