Y385T Short Block?

Ed_B · May 27, 2008

Hey All:
I think I may have fried the engine in my Farm Pro 2425, well I didn't fry it, my brother-in-law used it and it looks like the rear main went and he lost all of the oil and didn't know it.

Anyway, I see I can get a new engine for about $1800. I could rebuild it, but the parts keep adding up to more than $1800 with bearings and a crank. I don't see that there are any oversize bearings out there if I have to machine the block/crank.

I don't have the tractor engine taken apart yet to see exactly what happened. I am assuming the worst, spun bearing(s) etc.

Is there a source a source for a short block engine that anyone knows of?
I thank you all in advance for your help.

Ed.

greg_g · May 27, 2008

More than a few folks have reported that the bolts that hold the bellhousing to the engine block will vibrate loose, causing oil loss such as you describe. The bad news is that you have to break the tractor just aft of the bellhousing to get at the bolt heads. But in doing so, you might discover that sealing up the oil leak may be all that's required.

Unless your BIL actually froze up the engine that is........

//greg//

Ed_B · May 27, 2008

Hey Greg:

I am sure that the bolts working loose are what caused the seal failure there is a gap between the block and bell housing.

I am also 99% sure that the engine is seized, unless the flywheel is hanging on one of the bell housing bolts. I will know more when I break it in half. Starter won't turn it over and I tried to pull start it and all I got were skid marks in the driveway for my effort.

I will keep you all posted. I am just looking at the worst case scenario for now. Maybe I will get lucky if it is seized and it will only be seized piston(s) and not spun bearing(s).

Affordable · May 27, 2008

Ed-B,the individual parts cost make a complete new engine look better and better,because it will come with just about everything including starter,injector pump,ect.We have priced out a rebuild parts list and for just a little more you can get a new engine.We keep several complete engines in stock if you decide to get one, or we have the parts once you get it tore down, I suspect that a rod or main bearing has spun and damaged the crank.

Let me know if we can help

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

Ed_B · May 27, 2008

Tommy:

Thanks a bunch. I checked your site out first for the engine. Do they make oversize main/rod bearings and rods if I can get the block line bored and the crank turned? I am speculating, but my guess would be a spun bearing too.

I would rather not buy an entire engine if I don't have to. Is there a core on the old block, etc.? I suppose I could keep the old pumps, etc for spares. No short blocks that you are aware of?
Thanks for your help thus far.

Ed Burke.

greg_g · May 27, 2008

Ed_B said:
Is there a source a source for a short block engine that anyone knows of?

Most dealers are only going to stock OE or OE equivalent parts. Going that route for "oversize main/rod bearings and rods" would likely be difficult.

But in response to the shortblock question, here's one: FarmPro Parts - Item Details: Y385-01111, SKU: 20001464

//greg//

bluechip · May 27, 2008

One of our first "major repairs" on a Jinma, a 2002 Agracat, was a "seized engine" We pulled the engine and once th engine was on the floor, it wasn't seized anymore! the bell housing bolts had worked loose, the tractor "settled" and the seal clamped the crankshaft tighter than anything, couldt crank with starter, couldn't pull in gear and let out the clutch, nothing.... so don't get too worried, split the tractor and pull the flywheel off and take a look. I'll bet the engine is fine.

Affordable · May 27, 2008

Ed,I do have some oversized bearings not sure,I had some 10 over,25 over on mains.Since it is a sleeved engine you can rebuild with new crank,rod and main bearings ,gasket set,ect. it just gets costly.Which ever way you end up having to go we should have the parts needed.Let me know after you get it split,maybe it is just the seal binding it up,that would be good news for you

Tommy

Creekman · May 28, 2008

greg_g said:
Most dealers are only going to stock OE or OE equivalent parts. Going that route for "oversize main/rod bearings and rods" would likely be difficult.

But in response to the shortblock question, here's one: FarmPro Parts - Item Details: Y385-01111, SKU: 20001464

//greg//

The link you posted seems to show the engine block only; no pistons, rods, camshaft, crankshaft etc.

bluechip · May 28, 2008

I don't think the chinese sell "short blocks". In the past, we have taken complete new engines apart, separate head, injection system, starter, alternator, water pump flywheel, etc. and sold just the short block. But contrary that wise old sage's conclustion, the whole is much cheaper than the sum of the parts.

But once the flywheel housing is properly attached you will most likely be up and running fine. Be sure to check the number of threads engaging on the bolts. We had to put longer bolts in the agracat we fixed in 2003.
but more recent ones seemed to have long enough bolts, just needed locktite.
(someone needs to sell the chinese locktite, especially thier powersports factories).

greg_g · May 28, 2008

Creekman said:
The link you posted seems to show the engine block only; no pistons, rods, camshaft, crankshaft etc.

I believe you're correct. I linked to it because a $700 block might be a better option in this case, better than $2000 for a complete new engine. Even though possibly lacking all the components that define a typical short block, it could obviate the need for "oversize main/rod bearings and rods"

But further discussion is academic at this point, till the OP gets the tractor split.

//greg//

Ed_B · May 28, 2008

Hey Bluechip, Tommy, Greg and Creekman:

Thanks for the info so far. I will break it in half on Friday and keep you posted. I disconnected the top half on Sunday and just have to do the bottom half. I put in a new clutch so I've been through this before.

I never though of the seal binding, that could be the case. There was no smell to the oil that would indicate that anything burned. The oil I drained didn't have any metal in it so there is hope. Plus the Bro-in-law said he shut it off and it just wouldn't crank again, no sudden stopping, no noise, so there is hope. If it is the seal I suppose I just have to pry off the old seal, clean up the crank, MAKE SURE THE BELL HOUSING TO ENGINE BOLTS ARE TIGHT,slap in the new seal and go. I have a replacement seal that came with the tractor, should I look for an American version?

If it is a bearing, I will go with a new motor Jinma Parts has one and they are only an hour from Oconto, WI, so no shipping charges (sorry Tommy).

Thanks again, Ed.

greg_g · May 28, 2008

I have never been in your position, so I'm unable to offer meaningful advice on the seal question. But I thought I'd mention one other common occurrence on the 200 Series that has made some owners initially think their engine seized.

And that is the QD connection installed in the pressure line just aft of the engine mounted hydraulic pump. There's no relief valve between the pump and that connector - a connector which has a notorious reputation for opening by itself. When the pump is pushing 2000 PSI that suddenly has nowhere to go, the engine takes only about 3-4 seconds to blow black smoke before it dies. It won't start/run normally again till that hydraulic fluid has somewhere to go - that is, the before connectors are pushed together again. If that doesn't happen in short course, expect the pump seals give up the ghost and start dumping hydraulic fluid into the engine sump

//greg//

Affordable · May 29, 2008

No problem Ed,hopefully you won't need it.The seal you have should be fine, you may need a few gaskets.We are here if you need us

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

Ed_B · May 29, 2008

Hey All:

Thanks again for the help. Well I got it broke in half and the engine wasn't seized. What happened was one of the bolts holding the bell housing backed out far enough to jam the flywheel.

What am I torquing the flywheel and bell housing bolts at?

Thanks again, Ed.

Affordable · May 30, 2008

Well that is good news Ed,bolt torque is by the grade of bolt,I would say it's cheap insurance to replace the existing bolts while you have it split to a grade 8 bolt which we torque at 90-100 ft.pds,also use loctite on the bolts.Just because the existing bolts are not a high grade of bolt and I'm sure you don't want to do this again.

Good job on getting to the problem.

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

Red55 · May 30, 2008

Ed-
I would follow Tommy's advice and dump the original bolts and also get lockwashers for it! My manual SERIES Y85 DIESEL ENGINE

specs flywheel bolts @ 50-60 (N*m) so I personally wouldn't torque the original bolts above that. And it's probaly one of the reasons they became loose to begin with. Good luck -Ed

Ed_B · Jun 5, 2008

Well, I got the halves put back together. No leaks! The engine is running great. Thanks for all the help.

One last question:

Anyone got a part number for the Tachometer pick-up? The flywheel ate mine.

Ed.