XR4046H Electrical/Startup Issues

[TheSpoon]

Tractor's been a down a few months now since I haven't had the chance to work on it.
Short synopses: Won't start.

Symptoms:
There's always been some power to the dash.
When putting the key in and turning, I was getting the fuel pump turning on coil dashboard light was being lite. After coil light would turn off, I'd get one click from the starter, and nothing.

I've replaced the battery.
Cleaned the frame (ground away paint) at the 2 ground connections near the battery and 1 on the firewall. Dealer says there's also another on the bell housing, but I'm having trouble finding it.
Replaced 5 amp fuse under dash near HST peddles.

Currently, when I put the key in and turn to 1st position I'll sometimes get a low buzz coming from the fuse box area by the brake pedals and in the hours display I'll get a "b 4" (not really a b though, more like an upside down F) and "u 12" (might be u11, I'm not at the tractor currently) then nothing. No fuel pump sound, not clicking when trying to turn over. Anyone have any idea and/or could point me to where the 3rd ground might be so I can check that off before calling the dealer?

Thanks

 

[jaydee325]

Electrical trouble shooting 101, start with a known good fully charged battery. I know you said you replaced the battery, but I've seen bad new batteries.

Pull your battery, fully charge it and take it to any big box auto parts store and have it load tested. Once you have verified you have a good battery, that is when meaningful trouble shooting can begin.

I had a similar symptom of a low buzz in the lower left dash area once on my R3039. I ended up finding that the PTO switch was not completely in the off position. I cycled it on and then off and the tractor took right off.

Oh, one more thing, when you bring that new battery home, it is not fully charged. I always put a new battery on my smart charger overnight or until the charger indicates fully charged. 12.6 volts is fully charged on a rested battery (surface charge dissipated). 12 volts is only 50% charged.

Good luck.

 

[Roadworthy]

In addition to the above excellent advice I strongly recommend cleaning the terminals of the battery as well as the connecting cables. When you install the cables ensure they are clamped tightly on the battery. Be sure the bolts holding your starter are tight. That's how it completes its ground circuit. Be sure the starter power connector is tight as well.

 

[radios1]

perhaps the ground that goes from the chassis to the engine block is missing/bad.. that ground carries the current from the battery to the starter..

 

[TheSpoon]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. To cover all the suggestions.

I verified the battery was charged before install (12.65 V across posts) from store.

I put my battery tender on overnight last night, it read charged this morning, still no change.

I'll double check the PTO again, but I had at one point in my checking, cycled it on and off to verify.

I've taken the battery fully out after originally installing, wire brushed posts, the negative jumper cable ends, ground the frame to bare metal at the connection points, and brushed bolts. Also verified all connections when reconnecting were tight.

I'll check the starter connections tomorrow.

 

[TheSpoon]

perhaps the ground that goes from the chassis to the engine block is missing/bad.. that ground carries the current from the battery to the starter..

I've tried locating this ground but haven't had any luck locating it. Do you know where?

 

[jaydee325]

I'd still be getting the battery load tested.

What is the voltage at the battery when you try and crank the engine (start switch in the Start position)?

 

[TheSpoon]

I'd still be getting the battery load tested.

What is the voltage at the battery when you try and crank the engine (start switch in the Start position)?

12.7 V. Has been off the charger for over a day.

 

[radios1]

I've tried locating this ground but haven't had any luck locating it. Do you know where?

somewhere on the engine block to the chassis is all I can say.. it should be easy to see a heavy cable..

 

[Diggin It]

I've seen a few of these questions on different boards about different brands and at least some of them turned out to be the ignition switch itself.

 

[Avenger]

Was the tractor running when you parked it or did it die on its own?

If it was running when you shut it off, came out later and it wont crank, I'd double check that battery and connections.

If it died on it's own, then I would double check the battery and connections, and use that as the 'uphill' starting point, track down a faulty ground or loose connection.

Electrical problems suck.

 

[TheSpoon]

Alright, updates.

Ended up talking to the dealer on Saturday. He was pushing towards the battery being the cause also. He had me try bypassing the starter, nothing. So I took the battery out and took it to Autozone and Advanced and had them test it. Tested good, 12.72V, 746CCA. Put it back in, hooked everything up. Now, I'm not getting anything when I turn the key to the 1st position, however, when I turn it off, I get the original "error" codes on the display (upside down "F"4 U12) for a second or 2, then shuts off. So I'm leaning towards this being a problem with the ignition switch like Diggin It mentioned. When looking down from the opening for the throttle, I see its right over the switch and wires, so I wouldn't be surprised it something is faulty in there.

 

[Underdog57]

Dealer couldn't advise on error codes?

 

[monkeyduster]

Possibly a starter relay? Maybe this could help. View attachment Elect.System.pdf

 

[alexsbuddy]

Have you checked all of the safety switches? Common ones are: seat, PTO, clutch, and nuetral start. These are the ones that I know are on my XG3037. Yours might be slightly different.

 

[JLinder]

Is the tractor where you can use jumper cables to another vehicle? If so, connect only the two negative cables and see if that makes a difference. If it does, you have a ground issue. When you mentioned that bypassing the start relay circuit didn't do anything it would lead me to believe it's not ignition switch related. On that tractor the instrument panel doesn't display error codes in the traditional sense, the codes will show if there's a low voltage or a bad connection someplace but they don't really mean anything useful.

This service bulletin shows the ground locations: Dropbox - Service Bulletin - XR model Ground check hb.pdf - Simplify your life

 

[TheSpoon]

Is the tractor where you can use jumper cables to another vehicle? If so, connect only the two negative cables and see if that makes a difference. If it does, you have a ground issue. When you mentioned that bypassing the start relay circuit didn't do anything it would lead me to believe it's not ignition switch related. On that tractor the instrument panel doesn't display error codes in the traditional sense, the codes will show if there's a low voltage or a bad connection someplace but they don't really mean anything useful.

This service bulletin shows the ground locations: Dropbox - Service Bulletin - XR model Ground check hb.pdf - Simplify your life

Thanks for the service bulletin, I was able to find the engine block ground. I don't see the 2nd chassis ground on my 4046 though (right rear of firewall). The tractor is at a place where i can connect the grounds, I just need to get a vehicle home now (my trucks at the dealer getting some work done). So I'll try that tonight.

That said, getting the engine ground disconnected and wire brushed and reattached, I'm back to the tractor appearing to work correctly when in first position, but when trying to start, getting clicking on about a 2 second interval.

The dealer I talked to when trying to bypass the relay was (my guess) a little busy at the time to walk me through it, so was pretty sure. To verify I did it correctly, in the attached picture, I just jumper the battery wire (red) with the post for the thin black wire correct?

 

[TheSpoon]

OK. So it turns out I was testing the solenoid correctly, because I tried it again today (after checking the engine block ground) and the tractor started. So, I have a bad starter. Trying to get a hold of a dealer now to get a new part ordered. Finally.

 

[Doofy]

OK. So it turns out I was testing the solenoid correctly, because I tried it again today (after checking the engine block ground) and the tractor started. So, I have a bad starter. Trying to get a hold of a dealer now to get a new part ordered. Finally.

I believe I would take the starter to a rebuilder for repair. Much cheaper.

 

[LouNY]

OK. So it turns out I was testing the solenoid correctly, because I tried it again today (after checking the engine block ground) and the tractor started. So, I have a bad starter. Trying to get a hold of a dealer now to get a new part ordered. Finally.

If you are saying that when you jumped it from the main battery lead on the solenoid "To verify I did it correctly, in the attached picture, I just jumper the battery wire (red) with the post for the thin black wire correct?" to the small connection on the solenoid and it cranked over and started, your starter and solenoid are fine.
It is in your switch or safeties.