Woods gearbox gives out again

[Robert_in_NY]

Well, I have owned my Woods MD172 brush chopper for a little over 2 years now. Just after the original 1 year warranty ran out the bottom oil seal let loose on the chopper. No problem, freak thing. Dealer took care of it for free with no problems (I have a great dealer at Larry Romance and Son's in Sheridan, NY) Well now, a year since the original gear box replacement (since the seal went out and seized the gears solid) the new bottom oil seal went out again. My dealer is offering to fix it for free again since it should not have happened. We take care of our equipment and do not abuse it. The blades look almost brand new so you can see it has not been abused. I am not sure if I want to continue using the MD172 chopper anymore or if I should trade it off on a new Bush Bull from woods possibly a 840 or trade it for a Bush Hog brand but I prefer to deal with Romances and they sell Woods. The new gearboxes Woods use seem to be built heavier and have a lot better warranty. Any one have experience with the new Bush Bull Medium Duty line?

 

[Rick Jay]

Robert_in_NY,

Your dealer sounds very willing to work with you, so that's a plus. Perhaps you could have him contact Woods and explain your situation, and mention that you might like to trade up to a heavier model. See what they can do for you. It doesn't hurt to ask.

Good Luck,

~Rick

 

[Robert_in_NY]

When the gearbox went the first time they made Woods take care of it so hopefully they can do the same. I would love to jump up to the 840 as the MD172 is nice but I don't need a 6' chopper anymore and a 7' would work better for my new use. The BB840 will cost roughly $2500 so I will see what type of deal I can swing to rid myself of the MD172. I would still like to hear from anyone else with a medium duty Bush Bull to see if they have had any problems before I get another problem.

 

[CSAW]

If it will make you feel any better I have an old M5 Woods rotary cutter. The only thing on it that is still good is the gear box. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif The rest of the thing is completely rusted out. I'm trying to figure out if is worth the time to weld it up. I only use it about once a year so I can't justify a new one.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The old M5's were great choppers. We have a old Ford 5' from the early 70's that is still going strong. Only problem is the slip clutch needs to be cleaned up and tightened. Never a problem with the gearbox on that thing. There was a M5 that just sold for $450 at a auction a couple days ago. Was in great shape except for the common dings you expect to see on a chopper. Take care.

 

[mikim]

I've got a BB600 that I absolutely beat the living !@#$% out of clearing brush - heavy brush - clearing timber that ain't never been - Thank goodness for the stump jumper on it - or I'd be hung up a lot! It takes a beating and keeps going w/o any problems at all.

 

[frank_f15]

Robert: where about in Sheridan? i am only about 40 min from there but could only find and address for them in Arcade. i would like to take a ride and check them out.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

They are right in the middle of Sheridan itself. When you head into Sheridan on Route 20 heading towards Fredonia, go past the blinking light and look to your left as they are about 500 feet past the light. You cant miss them, they have a TN and a TS parked out by the front gate as well as most of their TC's.

 

[markct]

ya gota realize that most any cutter can have its seal damaged pretty easy, things like fishing line,baleing twine, fence wire, etc get wrapped around the shaft and chew up the seal, so ya may just have to be carefull and check the oil more often in your cutter. we always ran a mix of heavy gear oil and grease, so even if the seal failed then it would still get some lubrication. make sure ya check the oil before every use

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The only problem is that there has never been anything that could hurt the seal. My dealers original thought was that it was a piece of grape wire but when they tore it apart there was no wire or any damage that would be the result of a wire wrapping up there. And for it to happen about a year after it was new and again after replacement just doesn't add up. The land I am chopping has been cut since 1987 and has always been cut every year. There is nothing in the fields but grass and weeds.

As for checking oil before every use, I use to check the oil in a gearbox before the initial use each year since I have never had problems with oil seals giving away. Now I have to check this gear box just about every day and it is pathetic. I can not let this thing sit for a week and be content in knowing the oil is still in there like I can with the $300 5' cutter that we bought from a grape farmer a few years back. That thing is one of the Quality Farm and Fleet specials that has had the crap beat out of it and it still is more reliable then the $1700 Woods MD172 that we bought brand new and have babied the couple years we have owned it. Heck, even the gearbox on our Ford chopper from the 70's is more reliable then this one on the Woods, it has never had a problem with seals and was used on my grand fathers grape and beef farm for 20 years before it was reduced to cutting our pens once a year.

When I went to hook up the Woods 2 days ago I checked the oil since it was the first time we used it this year. No oil was in it so I talked to my dealer and told him and then filled it to make sure the seal was either bad or good and ran it for about 1.5 hours and it lost about 3/4 of a quart in that little bit of time. It is running out the bottom seal onto the stump jumper. This chopper was used about 15 hours since the original seal was replaced then parked for the winter. As far as I am concerned it is a junk design. Woods only has a 1 year warranty on that gearbox but their new gearboxes on the BB series of medium duty cutters is 3-5 years ( I can't remember if it was different between the 840 and 8400 gearboxes) So woods must know these new gearboxes are better to warranty them that much longer then the MD lines. Now I am trying to see what type of deal I can swing to trade the MD172 in on a BB840. My dealer is doing his best to help me out and if the numbers work out I will get rid of the problem and hopefully Woods will have a better product in their new choppers. Sorry for the long post but I have been using choppers for quite a while and the first brand new chopper I buy turns into a headache and it annoys the heck out of me. Take care

 

[JohnMiller3]

Hi Robert,

For the past number of years, locally Woods has had problems with some of their supplied gearboxes… talking with farmers and people at the auctions, it was between bending or shearing the output shafts or chronic bottom seals not holding up (as in your case). Some of the dealers even pushed the heck out of “other” cutter lines versus selling the Woods and having potential problems come back to haunt them.

I was never able to find out exactly what was the cause of the Woods gearbox problems, only to know they (Woods) had to do something quick to recover in their rotary cutter business… then you see a MAJOR overhaul in their BrushBull series… not just a few cosmetic changes to appease someone… but from top to bottom reengineering.

As you’ve already noted… they now have warranties up to 5 years on their gearboxes to win back the trust and confidence they had lost previously due to the problems of the past…

That new BrushBull 8400 is one serious looking rotary cutter… /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and time will tell its reliability and durability…

 

[normde2001]

John, I am sure curious to know why those seals are not holding up. It seems to me a new seal should work on a good, straight, shaft surface. I know Woods doesn't make gearboxes, and gearbox mfgrs. don't make seals, so somebody down the supply chain must be making bad seals.

 

[JohnMiller3]

<font color="blue">...somebody down the supply chain must be making bad seals... </font>

Hi Norm,

I tend to believe it may not be the seals being used, but perhaps "slop" internally in the gearbox with the output shaft...

(and if it were seals... the "new" ones like Robert and others have had replaced continue to do the same thing after a period of time...)

(A couple farmers, I had spoken with, were so disgusted, after replacing the seals a few times... resorted to packing the gearbox with GREASE.../forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif)

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Thanks for the post John, it is sad to hear others have had problems like mine but good to know I am not the only one. I am getting rid of this chopper and hopefully my dealer can convince Woods to help out on the cost of a trade but as long as I get rid of it I will be happy /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[djradz]

Is there something unique about these output shafts and their corresponding bearings and seals? I've not worked on the MD series, but the older Woods design is pretty simple. If you set the outer bearing properly set (including Loctite shaft sealer/fixer on the bearing sleave), there is no slop and none can develop unless the bearings or race wear significantly. If the bearing is set too tight, overheating can occur, thin the fluid and pressurize the casing, and then fluid will leak out. Otherwise, I'm at a loss how these could be failing. Any other thoughts? The bottom line is this type of gearbox setup is pretty standard for all kinds of applications, not just field equipment and used without problems. What could Woods have done wrong?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I would contact Woods myself...they seem very approachable,I have e-mailed them before and talked directly with them.
Nice people

 

[dass]

One thing that should be added here,make sure the vent (cap screw) is open and working. I have an M-40 and the washer at the end of the shaft (locks the bolt that holds the blade)was welded on. Maybe they loosen easily. Everything is tight and working well.....so far. CHECK THAT VENT ! Dass

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Well, my dealer is offering me $1500 trade in on my MD 172 to help me out. I paid $1700 for it when I bought it a couple years ago. Now I need to decide if I want the Brush Bull 720 or 840. I will be looking at $1000 for the 720 or $2200 for the 840 with dual tail wheels with my trade. The new BB's are definitely a lot heavier and better built then the MD's they replaced. Thanks for everyones responses. Take care.

 

[kensfarm]

Robert.. I just purchased the BB600 3 weeks ago.. I had a problem w/ the PTO shaft(warped).. they finally delivered a new PTO this Sat. in the pouring rain.. I wasn't happy to have to wait 3 weeks for a PTO.. luckily it's been raining.. so I haven't been able to do much except work inside. This Sunday I finally got the chance to take this cutter out.. the grass was 5 & 6 ft tall.. grass was wet.. ground is muddy, standing water in some places. The cutter worked great.. even slopping through muddy spots.. I'm just working the field borders for now.. too muddy to get off the main paths. The sun is finally out today(Mon.).. once I'm off work I'll be jumping on the tractor when I get home.. at least it'll be somewhat dryer. After looking at Rhino.. Bushhog.. & Woods.. I'm glad I went w/ the BrushBull. I paid $1295 for the BB600 new.. another $95 for delivery.. don't let the dealer up the price w/ his generous trade-in offer.. I jumped at the $1295 deal.. thought it was a mistake.. maybe that's why they gave me the Woods finish mower manuel.. I got the correct manuel Saturday w/ the PTO shaft. Good Luck..

 

[djradz]

So the dealer is saying the 720 is worth $2,500 and the 840 $2,700? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Those prices seem extremely high. Maybe others on the forum can give you some recent quotes from other dealers.