Wiring house & shop

[Corkpuller]

It doesn’t matter what or where you provide the service and who comes first, shop or house.
What matters to you is the cost and the end result of a clean installation.

There’s nothing wrong with with having a separate meter for each if that benefits your layout.

The gentleman who posted the photo of the pad mount UG XFMR with the service box next to it is the ideal situation.
One box, one meter. Run 2 individual services from there to each structure.

But, if your structures are going to be more than a hundred feet or so from each other the meter for each deal could be better. You won’t necessarily need a separate XFMR for each, but may depending on distance.

Two things I’d consider first.
1) cost of Power Co running Primary “close” to each structure vs. the cost of running the Secondary (service wire) from that point of connection. I personally would want to limit the amount of secondary service wire.
2) Where will you need to trench to get from the Primary/ Meter point to serve each structure.
If you’ll be crossing a creek, concrete drive, etc. the cost of any repairs in the future could come in to play.
What about your Septic system, garden area, water lines.

 

[strantor]

I believe you need to start by talking to the power company. They will offer suggestions, solutions and variables based on your location and costs. We may suggest methods that your power company will not do.

Your power company sounds way more helpful than mine! I'm actually in awe of what you just said. I tried for months just to get an answer for what power pole/meter can I needed to set, to get power to my barn. The company I pay for service (TXU) deflected me to the company who manages the power delivery (Centerpoint) who deflected me to a list of authorized consultants they use, most of which would not answer the phone or return calls, and if they did, refused to talk to anyone but a licensed electrician, and expected to be paid to come out and look before giving an answer. I was bounced around between different people on this list until I talked to my neighbor who is a licensed electrician. He tried to get a quick answer for me but it turned into something that was taking so much if his time that I felt we were approaching the boundary between friendly neighbor help and paid work so I told him not to worry about it. I ended up just taking a chance and picking one of the 5 options for power pole/meter cans they had at the hardware store and called them to run power to it. Turns out I picked the right one on the first try. Yay!



I'm not an electrician and this isn't electrical or engineering advice. Just my own thoughts. My barn was about 60ft from a power pole on my property line (different power pole than the one which powers my house), so getting a separate service ran to it was the obvious first choice. But due to the issues I was having getting the power company to confirm the requirements, for a while I was looking to run power to my barn (300ft from the house) from the house panel. To put a 200A panel in the barn would have required several dollars per foot worth of copper large enough not to run into voltage drop problems. One solution I was considering was using step-up/step-down transformers and HV transmission line. It's the same tactic the power company uses to get power to your property. To run a 200A/240V service through a 3kV transformer would reduce the transmission line requirement to 16A. That's a LOT less copper (but more expensive HV wire).

I don't know if you could convince a regular electrical contractor to do this for you, as it's not common, they would have a lot of homework to do, they would lose money on the mark-up of tons of copper they would otherwise be selling you, there might be implications on their insurance, etc. But if you're DIY'ing this whole thing anyway, this might be a way to save thousands of dollars given the lengths you're trying to get power. IF you have any electrical knowledge and access to appropriate safety gear.

First (best) option though of course would be to have the power company run poles and lines all over your property.

 

[texasranger556]

I agree, I'm planning to build a shop and called the power company to ask about 3 phase service. They won't even talk to me until I submit all the plans and pay the application fee.

 

[LittleBill21]

be aware depending where you are, a separate meter is at a minimum 20 dollars a month for 0 usage, my barn uses very little power per month, so i have a long power line from the house. so far i have save 2500 dollars since i moved in, i prolly used 15 dollars of actual power.

 

[ovrszd]

be aware depending where you are, a separate meter is at a minimum 20 dollars a month for 0 usage, my barn uses very little power per month, so i have a long power line from the house. so far i have save 2500 dollars since i moved in, i prolly used 15 dollars of actual power.

Mine is $34 per month, per meter. Currently I have four on two different properties. $140 per month before any use.

When I get my build done and sell the other property I'll be down to one. That's why I gladly went the transformer pad route.

 

[fried1765]

be aware depending where you are, a separate meter is at a minimum 20 dollars a month for 0 usage, my barn uses very little power per month, so i have a long power line from the house. so far i have save 2500 dollars since i moved in, i prolly used 15 dollars of actual power.

I did the same!
Ran 500' underground from 200A SE in house to 150A SE box in barn.
One service= one bill for past 34 years.
Big saving!

 

[ovrszd]

I did the same!
Ran 500' underground from 200A SE in house to 150A SE box in barn.
One service= one bill for past 34 years.
Big saving!

I'm figuring that out. I'm just slow.

 

[Jchonline]

I'm interested in building a house and shop on some land. I have not contacted the power company yet as I wanted to get some advice on how to route the power into my property and if I have any options available to me. The entrance to my property is funnel shaped with about a 300' road leading into the gate. On my attachment, point 1 is where the end of the county road meets my private road, point 2 is where my private road leads into my property, point 3 is where my shop will be located and point 4 is where my house will be located. The distance between point 2 and point 4 is approximately 470 feet if the wire would be cheaper going that way first. My question is does it matter if I take power to the shop and then to the house, or do you have to go to the house first and then to the shop? The house will be around 1600 sq ft and no unique power needs. We'll have I guess "standard" HVAC, stove, water heater, dryer and well pump connections, so I guess 200A would do it. The shop won't be anything really unique either. It'll be about 1300 sq ft and I'll be running only 1 power tool at a time like a table saw or planer, or maybe 2 at a time like a dust collector while the tool is running. I would like to be able to run a 240v welder, but just a "standard" buzz box stick welder. It'll be just pretty much a "hobby grade" shop, not a commercial enterprise, so maybe a 100A deal? Maybe 40-60A would do it, I don't know. I *will* feed some stuff out to outdoor outlets, lights, etc for animals, coops, pens or whatever, but that probably won't be much of a draw. I'm a "one man show" so the odds of running anything much simultaneously that would overload the system is very doubtful. Ideally, I'd like to put a little utility building just inside my gate and then trench everything myself as I have time so I don't lose any more trees than I have to. If the power company brings the line in overhead, I think it's a 15-30' wide lane they have to have and I'd rather not cut that many trees down if I can help it. However, depending on how much they're willing to run for free versus what I have to pay for, that may sway that decision. If anyone can look at my map and at the power company sheet and tell me what I'm looking at, I'd appreciate it. I'll answer any questions I can. I'm not planning on doing this work myself, I'll be hiring an electrician, I just wanted to educate myself as much as possible before approaching the power company. The older I get (translation, the grumpier LOL) the less I'm willing to take what a single employee of any company tells me as "the gospel". I'm certainly not going to argue with a rep from the utility company, I'd just like to be able to bounce ideas off them if they only see "one way to skin a cat" if you will. Thank you.

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It doesnt matter where you get 200 AMP service from the local utility (at least 200A is the common drop here in CO). Bring it into the garage, then run underground condiut to the house. Garage is main service panel, house is just a subpanel (even if it has more circuits...doesnt matter).

What I would do is get 200A dropped at a boundary line on your property. Then trench from there to where you want it. If the garage is closest, trench there. Then trench from garage to house site once that is needed. In CO the utility company must run it up to your property. From there you can get a licensed electrician to run it to your house. If you do the trenching it is usually much shallower (in CO 18 inches if owner does it, 3 ft if utility company does it). You trench, get the proper conduit and gauge wire (electrician can tell you based on the run) then cover it up. Consider adding a second conduit line if the electrician recommends. Sorry from that rate sheet I cant tell what it would cost if you trench. It looks like you still have to buy the conduit from APCO at $3.14 per foot which is a racket. If that is the case you can figure it out. It doesnt mention the wire to be used either.

After careful consideration we are going off grid anyway, so none of the utility company stuff really mattered.

 

[ovrszd]

I couldn't determine a cost either. Very confusing.

I've never complained because I had too much service. Be very careful about cutting corners in this regard.

 

[ededic]

I contacted my power company and paid a $75 consultation fee and they came out, helped me plan what I wanted.

Meters will cost you lots of money per meter, per month even before you use a kilowatt so I reduced my four meters to one. That was the plan I told the power company and they helped me with the rest.

We did 400amps buried across the road to my shop and we will bury 200amp off to the house when we build it. I put an automated transfer switch at the shop to kick a 22K propane generator if power should fail and it will power both house and shop.

Power company estimated $2,400 and said I would need a pole in my yard to cross the road. I said absolutely not, bury it and it cost me $450 total in the end.

Like others have said don’t skimp on this, you will kick yourself.

 

[NTG]

Do you get ice and wind storms? Clear out the trees around the above ground portion up front. Stuff grows back faster than you will expect.

Not too often. And we don't freak out like some folks do when we lose power. So if a tree *did* fall on it, it wouldn't be the end of the world if we had to wait for the power company to come out.

 

[NTG]

If you値l be crossing a creek, concrete drive, etc. the cost of any repairs in the future could come in to play.
What about your Septic system, garden area, water lines.

No creek crossing, drive is dirt/gravel. There may be some concrete around the house at some point, but shouldn't affect this. Septic, garden and all water lines will be behind the house away from the power. Unless of course when I get more trees pulled out and the septic guy says the drain field will have to be in front of the house. Even then, the power will come from the side and should be away from the septic.

 

[NTG]

But if you're DIY'ing this whole thing anyway, this might be a way to save thousands of dollars given the lengths you're trying to get power.

I'm not DIY'ing it. An electrician will do this work. I'm just trying to do my homework and find options so that IF there are options available to me, one guy at the power company doesn't just come in and say "we need a 30' lane to everywhere you want power" and they start cutting trees down. With the house being near the front of my property, I'd like to maintain as much privacy as possible and I would like to avoid that deal where the power company sees fit to come onto my property any time they please to whack down everything in sight and spray whatever chemicals they like to keep that lane open.

First (best) option though of course would be to have the power company run poles and lines all over your property.

I see that AS an option and maybe the cheapest/easiest option, but I certainly don't see it as the best option. I *am* ignorant of power installation and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the less the power company is "all over" my property the better is how I see it.

 

[NTG]

I'm figuring that out. I'm just slow.

See, that's why I'm asking! LOL I've read many threads here and I'm trying to pick up what I can from the more "learned" crowd. If the power company says "this is how we do it and that's all you're getting" well not much I can do about that. If the guy comes out, there are multiple options and we can have a conversation about what will happen, maybe I can save some money or get a better install than if I go in straight up ignorant. Also a neighbor is planning (if that's still on) to build a house right on the side of my 300' entrance road. They won't use my road into their property, they'll have a different entrance, but it's possible the Util will pick up an additional customer. They could run poles down my drive to feed both properties and then go underground once they get into my property. If they'll pick up TWO paying customers maybe they'll be more flexible as to our options.

 

[NTG]

I appreciate everyone's comments. This work will be done by an electrician (except for manual labor like trenching and the like if that's the way we go) and I agree, we will not be cutting corners or skimping on it. We'll cut back on what type of flooring we put in the house, what kind of faucets we pick or whatever, I will not skimp on infrastructure. One other thing I forgot to add was, we may be on "county water" also. If so, they'll be running a trench all the way down that 300' entrance road at a minimum. We can possibly drop power conduit in that trench along with the water line, I'm not sure yet. We're at the very end of a rural road that has 7 or 8 houses on it. The last 2 houses complain about their water pressure all the time. She tells me that if one is using water, the other has no pressure and the county's been out there to look at it and can't figure it out. When I ask her questions about it, things just don't add up, so I'm thinking I can get it resolved. So...... I may have delivery issues with my water as well, so this is why I'm trying to do my research.

 

[thepumpguysc]

When I had the power co out to give me an estimate..it was 4500.00 for a 100 yard run.. which included the poles {3-4}, the wire & "facing" all the pine trees.. about 75 of'm.. & they stopped at the building.. it was up to me to get power from the pole INTO my shop.. {electrician}

 

[prichard]

See, I read a lot of threads like this and got very concerned about cost to get power to my new house build. Current house is about 200' from transformer and new house is another 600' away.

I called the coop and asked if they could come look and give me some options. One of their engineers came out and expressed the same concerns I had about sourcing from existing location. I pointed out where a neighbor had a transformer and suggested we use that as primary. He told me to ask neighbor if they had an issue with going through his property and digging it up. He was fine with it.

Well the next day the engineer talked with his underground crew they said they'd bore it and not tear up neighbors land or treeline separating us. He went and talked to the neighbor himself and within a week there was a brand new transformer on my property.

My cost - $0

 

[GSVette]

I appreciate everyone's comments. This work will be done by an electrician (except for manual labor like trenching and the like if that's the way we go) and I agree, we will not be cutting corners or skimping on it. We'll cut back on what type of flooring we put in the house, what kind of faucets we pick or whatever, I will not skimp on infrastructure. One other thing I forgot to add was, we may be on "county water" also. If so, they'll be running a trench all the way down that 300' entrance road at a minimum. We can possibly drop power conduit in that trench along with the water line, I'm not sure yet. We're at the very end of a rural road that has 7 or 8 houses on it. The last 2 houses complain about their water pressure all the time. She tells me that if one is using water, the other has no pressure and the county's been out there to look at it and can't figure it out. When I ask her questions about it, things just don't add up, so I'm thinking I can get it resolved. So...... I may have delivery issues with my water as well, so this is why I'm trying to do my research.

Just to add a bit of clarification to my earlier post- where I am at ( near Spokane, WA.) the power cooperative ( in this case Inland Power) has to do the service installation from the 7200v junction to the transformer, to the meter base and setting the meter-no one else is allowed. I paid for the wire, transformer, transformer pad, meter) but Inland Power is responsible for the equipment up to the meter-after that it is my responsibility

 

[ovrszd]

My power company won't share the trench if they bury it.

I guess you could if it's on your dime. Personally I wouldn't.

Your water pressure issue greatly concerns me. Especially the part about the water district not understanding why there's a problem.

There's two separate issues that need clarification, low pressure and/or low flow.

I'd first be curious what the static pressure is at the neighbor's house. That can easily be determined by plumbing a cheap pressure gauge to a hydrant bib. Attach to the hydrant and turn it on. I'd be very concerned if the pressure is below 30psi.

At low static pressure the issue of flow becomes serious quickly. Multiple flow requires at the same time will have miserable consequences.

I'm guessing your neighborhood has developed by adding houses over a few year span? If so the primary water service line is probably too small. Fixing that will probably require consolidated complaining by all of you. Might even require a trip to a board meeting with pictures and video.

For my build a new line was buried. It runs 1/2 mile from the large main. It serves me and one neighbor. The main is 6". The new line is 3". I have to use a pressure regulator set on 55psi. I have no flow issues. Neither us or the neighbor ever know when the other is using water.

 

[Diggin It]

Every one is different. Ours won't trench at all. If you want underground, you contract it out and pay for it. Once done, they'll connect everything and install the transformer and meter at the house. If you want overhead, they'll go to the first pole, something like 100 feet, maybe more. Beyond that, they charge extra.