Why HY-GARD instead of ATF type F in Deere X700 series?

[bgi]

Regarding Deere X700 series with Tuff Torque K92 transaxles, the Deere manual has this to say about the fluid:

"NOTE: Machine is filled with John Deere Low Viscosity HY-GARDｮ (J20D) transmission oil at the factory. DO NOT mix oils.

These machines are equipped with a internal wet disc brake transmission. Use only Low Viscosity HY-GARD (J20D) transmission oil. DO NOT use type 擢 automatic transmission fluid.

IMPORTANT: Avoid damage! Use John Deere Low Viscosity HY-GARD (J20D) transmission oil to reduce transmission noise and to increase response time for the hydraulics and power steering."

I can understand not mixing certain oil types. I can also understand how low viscosity can improve fluid flow thereby improving performance.

However, visit tuff torque's web site and you find this on the K92:

Refill transaxle with aproximately 9.0L (9.5 qt) using ATF Type F as required) to crosshatched area of dipstick.

If Tuff Torque thought ATF Type F was good enough, why not Deere?

Given that the replacement schedule is every 200 hrs, I'm not overly concerned about the expense of HY-GARD, even though it's about $11-$12 a quart! What's the real story? Better hydraulics and power steering performance? Less foaming? Quieter operation? Better quarterly results on JD financials?

Inquiring minds want to know where our $0.30 per hour transaxle fluid money is going.

 

[TimS]

The manual for my 455 (which uses the same transaxle) says that the HyGuard reduces PTO clutch chatter. I don't know if that's so, but that's what it says. I do know that even though the change interval is 200 hours, the HyGuard does seem to get old after a couple of years - I don't put a lot of hours on. With the old fluid, the tractor motion gets jerky, particularly when the fluid gets hot.

Your price per quart seems very high - last time I got it was in gallon jugs, and I don't remember being shocked by the price.

Tim

 

[bgi]

Hi, Tim,

Thanks for the info. I do believe I paid too much for the fluid because I wasn't offered a gallon size. Probably two gallons would be a good bit less than 7 quarts. "Quieter operation" in my manual could apply to the PTO chattering. The fluid was changed by the prior owner at 50 hours back in Feb 07. It's at 120 hrs now.

I'll keep an eye out for jerky movement as the 250 hour mark comes up. I doubt I'll put 100 hrs a year on it, although I'm doing a lot more with it than I ever imagined I would after upgrading from the LX280.

thanks again

 

[Wayne County Hose]

You can use standard tractor fluid. Just make sure it says that it meets the Hy-gard requirements on the label. Manufacturers try to scare people into buying oil from their dealers when it is not necessary. John Deere doesn't make oil, or blend it. Oil companies do it for them. They also sell the oil under different, less expensive labels. I sell oil that is actually a better grade oil than the hy-gard for less than the local John Deere dealer gets for hy-gard.
You paid for a quart what most shops get for a gallon.

 

[bgi]

Thanks, Wayne. It will be a while before I need to buy any more. If I were changing the oil in a large tractor (using gallons), I would have balked at the price, for sure.

You paid for a quart what most shops get for a gallon.

No doubt.

 

[DieselPower]

Just make sure it meets the J20D spec (low viscosity) and you should be fine. Regular HyGard is the J20C spec, that would be to thick.

 

[bgi]

Thanks for all the detailed info, folks. It's helpful.

 

[RWEST]

Just changed the transaxle fluid/filter in my X595 this past weekend. After reading your post, I was thinking I'd have to sell some blood plasma or something to pay for it, but, the Low-Vis/HyGard J20D stuff was $12.50/gal at my local J-D guy.

However, visit tuff torque's web site and you find this on the K92:
Refill transaxle with aproximately 9.0L (9.5 qt) using ATF Type F as required) to crosshatched area of dipstick.
If Tuff Torque thought ATF Type F was good enough, why not Deere?

Interesting!!

 

[bgi]

Grrr....

 

[Hardscrabbble]

I changed my K92 Tuff Torq transmission fluid this past spring. I change it every two years regardless of hours. Having worked for a company that designed and built transmissions. I can tell you a lot of testing goes into the proper hydraulic type of fluids to be used in a transmission. Granted most companies do not make their own fluids but a lot of engineering time takes place between the lubricant mfg. and the equipment mfg. to get a lubricant that meets the specs. needed by the equipment mfg. I personally know of one ocassion where a full tanker load of oil was rejected at the build factory because it did not pass the equipment mfg. lab test specs. It probably ended up in 10,000 plastic bottles on many different store shelves. So while I am not suggesting that aftermarket products that meet factory specs. are not O.K. to use I am sure they are. I am just saying for me and from my experience I stick with the OEM hydraulic fluids. If John Deere says J20D Hy-Gard Low-Visc. then thats what I use.

 

[mjncad]

Deere tells me to use Hy-Gard or equal, so I use Hy-Gard. I'm not going to look at oil labels to see if Mal-Wart fluid meets JD specs or not. I figure I have enough invested in my rig, that trying to be cheap at every 200 hours fluid change is not worth it to me by using questionable fluids. I figure Deere knows my tractor better than I do; so who am I to argue.

However, I do my own 200 hour services to save money on dealer labor and transport charges since I don't own a trailer.

 

[RalphVa]

Just changed it out on my 4010. It was $12.92/gallon for the low vis HyGard at the JD dealer. Takes 2.6 gallons. That works out to 17 cents/hr. Actually, I went about 230 hours on it. Think the main reason they say to change it out is to keep the filter from collapsing. Two hundred hours is about the equivalent of 10,000 automotive miles. Guess that's a lot on a filter (but after that first 50 hours, there ain't much for the filter to take out). On automotive transmissions (stick) and differentials using gear oil, I just run them until the seals start to sling oil (generally in excess of 100k miles; got 144k on my Toyota with original oils; changed on the Benz first time at about this mileage). Then change the oil. Tightens the seals up (new oil actually swells them some).

If there was a way to change out the hydraulic filter without losing all the oil, I'd just change the filter. Could do it if they just put a twist-on external filter, like on the engine (oil that I just change today, too).

Ralph

 

[mjncad]

I forgot to mention I use the regular viscosity Hy-Gard based on the ambient temperatures I generally operate in. I notice the tractor runs better on the regular viscosity oil. I so rarely use my tractor in cold temperatures that I can afford to wait for the oil to warm up to normal operating temperature. Having the tractor garaged all the time helps too, even in an unheated garage.

 

[JGY]

Strange ....

My John Deere dealer sells the Hy-Gard for about $3.50/quart ....

Curious ....

 

[jimg]

JD hosted a panel discussion on RFD TV not too many months ago where they discussed lubricants/coolants. They stated as a company they put considerable time into lubricant engineering and work closely w/ mfgs to come up w/ formulations to meet their needs. The point was made that the additive pkg is what makes their lubricants unique and perform to spec. So, while there may be other oils that would work they wouldnt provide the protections or perf characteristics a branded oil would.

 

[Farmerford]

John Deere HY-Gard J20C (regular viscosity) now (says it) meets Kubota Super UDT specs. It is about $11.00/gallon in 5 gallon pails at the local JD construction equipment dealer. I find that both JD and Caterpillar are fairly competitive on consumables that have competition in the market. The price difference over the big box/auto parts brands such as Coastal, etc. is not enough for me to justify the risk. Hy-Gard is suitable for both Hydrostatic and Glide Shift Kubota transmissions and Kubota front axles, as well as my John Deere crawler (all drive train and hydraulic system) and Caterpillar crawler (except final drives). That is a lot easier to keep up with than three or four different oils.

I think there are two requirements in a wet brake system that ATF fluid may not meet. Since the brakes are designed to slip the friction modifier has to meet narrow specifications to keep them from chattering. In the automatic transmission, the clutches engage quickly and chattering is less of an issue. In addition, the slipping of wet brakes quickly breaks down viscosity index improvers in a multi-viscosity oil. I think many ATF fluids have VI improvers that would have a short life in a wet brake system.

I am not a salesman for JD or Cat, but for filters (for their machines), oils, greases, supplemental coolant additives, etc. their prices are usually not much over the competition and I think the quality is unquestionable. For JD, the construction equipment dealer is likely to have the best prices on JD products because his construction company customers shop for the best prices on oils, greases, etc.