Who has a Concealed Carry?

[riptides]

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Nice counterpoints.

 

[Bill Barrett]

I disagree with this particular statement. History has shown us that the prevalence of armed citizens in close proximity to each other fuels violence and criminal acts instead of deterring them. Anyone familiar with the true history of the American old west knows this. In fact the only way men like Wyatt Earp and David Cook were able to clean up towns and cities in the west was by prohibiting carrying firearms inside of town and city limits. Experience had shown these men that the fact that everyone had a gun did not reduce crime but increased it, and the best way to reduce crime was to ensure that only peace officers were armed inside of town and city limits.

Once firearms were banned within city limits, those cities began to grow and thrive as law and order settled in.

On the flip side, it's important to point out that the second ammendment was in fact designed to ensure that the citizens of a given state were able to throw off corrupt government, being ratified by most states within a few years of the writing of the Declaration of Independence. It was always intended to empower the people to organize and defend themselves should the government find itself moving closer to the totalitarianism of King George.

So the second Amendment was not ambiguous about the rights of the people to own and bear arms in their homes, or to organize as a body when necessary to defend the integrity of their societies from corrupt government or other threats, but the notion of people walking around in town with side arms was not specifically permitted by this Amendment, nor should it be.

Our own history has shown us that law and order will not come by having everyone carrying guns in open society, but by the opposite.


"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

Something to ponder.
The old west was a period of about 25 years. Most of the major killings and shoot outs have been immortalized. When you look at Native American issues, buffalo mass hunting, and guns used in every day life as they were, I'm surprised there wasn't more deaths. Also dime novels of the old west become popular all over the world, authors embellished stories to sell and hype their work. History Channel just had a show that looked at the old west, there was only one face to face high noon show down that could be verified, and a handful of OK corral type occurrences. Most shootings were done in the back! Number of killings in that 25 year period probably wouldn't match Chicago, a gun free zone, in one year. Back on the east coast almost everyone carried a pocket pistol, including most women, not much heard about gun blood shed in the streets, I'm sure there was some. There sure was a lot of clubbing, stoning, fires, and gang wars going on.

There is a lot of statistics that show conceal carry stops and reverses grime.
But statistics can be spun anyway the experts want to slant the numbers.

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

maybe this is my lack of trust in the government but do any of you think that concealed carry is an easy registration? not to start a fire storm but this is one of the reasons why i haven't got a CC.......

yeah, i know that the goverment- in a complete fall out of society- could interrogate people and find out who has guns but, man, a concealed carry list would be a VERY quick way to find out who has guns.........at least in the beginning stages of disarmament....

like i said, i'm not sure i believe this myself, but it crosses my mind a lot...

 

[Podunkadunk]

maybe this is my lack of trust in the government but do any of you think that concealed carry is an easy registration? not to start a fire storm but this is one of the reasons why i haven't got a CC.......

yeah, i know that the goverment- in a complete fall out of society- could interrogate people and find out who has guns but, man, a concealed carry list would be a VERY quick way to find out who has guns.........at least in the beginning stages of disarmament....

like i said, i'm not sure i believe this myself, but it crosses my mind a lot...

Of course it is. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have to fill out any paperwork. I could just go in, show my DL or other form of Gov't accepted/issued ID and they could run me against the NCIC, get cleared, hand me my license and I'd walk out...no questions asked.

However, I have to fill out paperwork and leave it with the issuing agency. Who knows where that paperwork goes. They have my fingerprints, my picture, SSN, DL#, first borns footprint, etc.

Same applies for buying a firearm. Paperwork, ID, run me, issue or not. The Form 4473 stays with the dealer, who gives the agency their store identifier number upon calling to get me cleared. The store only tells the agency "Longgun" or "handgun", but now the agency knows I bought something and if they want to go further, all they have to do is dispatch agents to the store I bought from...who must surrender the 4473 upon request to the BATFE.

Call it what you want, but it's registration, no matter how you look at it.

Podunk

 

[dmccarty]

... To pick it up I walked - without warning - into a room full of deputies. It could be my upbringing, but I feel somewhat intimidated by police force. Don't get me wrong, I was the most overgrown man in the room, but uniform just spells trouble to me

I think its a normal reaction.

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

On the few rare occasions that uniforms spelled trouble for me I deserved it.

Would you like to confess to your TBN Bretheran?

Later,
Dan

 

[Egon]

It could be my upbringing, but I feel somewhat intimidated by police force. Don't get me wrong, I was the most overgrown man in the room, but uniform just spells trouble to me

Prokop, from your experiences in another life/area this might be considered very realistic intuition!

 

[chh]

I disagree with this particular statement. History has shown us that the prevalence of armed citizens in close proximity to each other fuels violence and criminal acts instead of deterring them.
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

To make a point in disagreement with your findings, check out the crime rate in ******, one of the most armed countries in the world. Mandatory military service, training and a requirement to keep weapons and ammo at home while in the reserve. They have one of the lowest violent crime rates in the world among their citizens.

 

[Dargo]

I agree with you chh. I'm unaware of even one instance where removing firearms from law abiding citizens has succeeded in lowering crime. I've even been Brady's page and read all of their propaganda. In a 'perfect world' where all the bad guys and criminals of all sorts would line up and turn in their weapons such a ban may have a possibility of working. Unfortunately, it seems that we do not live in a perfect world. Heck, common sense tells me that if I was a criminal and going to rob someone or burgle their home I'd love to pick a place where I know the victim will not possess any firearm and be able to harm me as I commit my crime. Afterall, I'd be there to commit a crime, not engage in a battle. Any legislation from any government that acts to remove firearms from law abiding citizens has, and will continue to be, an extremely poor decision that only escalates violent crime.

 

[RedRocker]

So the second Amendment was not ambiguous about the rights of the people to own and bear arms in their homes, or to organize as a body when necessary to defend the integrity of their societies from corrupt government or other threats, but the notion of people walking around in town with side arms was not specifically permitted by this Amendment, nor should it be.

Our own history has shown us that law and order will not come by having everyone carrying guns in open society, but by the opposite.


"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

So it's the right to keep and bear arms in your house? Sorry Wayne, you're wrong and
your conclusions are wrong.