Which antique tractor?

[toddol1971]

Get a massey ferguson 65/165. plenty of power, plenty of them available. Very good tractors. Very reliable. Now that you know go get one. You'll wonder why you waited. LOL.

 

[Charlie175]

Tsk tsk, you know he knows he wants a Allis!

 

[Soundguy]

Remember guys, he's shooting in the 30ish hp range... a mf'er 65 ain't there!

While more HP is usually better.. he may be going in with a target fuel consumption budget too..

soundguy

 

[keving]

This is good stuff. I like HP!, but Soundguy is right, I'd like to keep it under 40HP. My 7040 can handle the bigger tasks! Keep 'em coming. I'm learning a lot.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

So let's have a little more information. Is your intent to get a a collectable antique that you can use on occasion, more so than a useable, functional older tractor that just happens to have some collectability? Is it "form over function"? Or, function THEN form?

How much will you use this tractor? Just a few hours a year and in more of a "play" capacity, or will it earn its keep? What chores do you envision this tractor doing on a routine basis? Is fuel economy a goal, or would you qualify that as an added benefit should you happen to luck on to a fuel efficient tractor? How important is it to end up with certain features like 3-point hitch, live power, power steering, draft control, remote hydraulics, good lighting, ect?

Just what do you consider "antique"? Or "collectable"? 25 years old? 50?

Do you favor any certain brands? Models? What tractors are in your history? Did you grow up around "grampa's M FarmAll", or any other particular tractor?


OK...My opinion again. Starting back in the early 1970's, I bought and re-sold any tractor I could make a buck on. I kept records of all my sales. Just recently I decided to go back and count just how many tractors I've traded. 97 so far. Just about every color and brand. Mostly I stayed with utility or rowcrop tractors, 30 to 100 hp, and tried to stay with popular models that would sell good. In addition, I've owned (for my own use) Fords, Deere's IH, Allis Chalmers, Olivers, Case, and a bunch of Ferguson/Massey Fergusons.

Without a doubt, the most functional, efficient, reliable, easy to maintain, and cost effective tractor I've ever owned, I STILL own. Its been here since new in 1971. That's the tractor in my avatar. A 1971 Massey Ferguson 150. They were built from 1964 through 1975. Essentially, it's a beefed up 135. They used the entire drive train of a 135, with the addition of a heavier front axle that gave it 9" longer wheelbase, a bigger cooling system, more fuel capacity, a better air filter system, better power steering, and they came standard with just about every option available on a 135. In 1964, it became the most fuel efficient tractor ever tested at the University of Nebraska testing facility, a mark it held for near 20 years. The longer wheel base gives the 150 a better balance than a 135. They'll hanlde rear-mounted loads better than any tractor its size I've ever been around. Ask anyone who's ever owned one, the Perkins diesel is the finest small diesel engine ever produced. They run forever, produce excellent power on very little fuel. In original configuration, they were 38.7HP (PTO) The very same engine was available through the years in various models. With an adjustment of the fuel screw on the injector pump, they were rated at anywhere from 32 HP to 52. I've had mine set to where it dyno's 47 hP and it's been there for more than 35 years. It STILL runs like a new one. No blow-by, starts good in the coldest of weather, excellent low end torque (a trademark of small Perkins diesels) all without ever having the valve cover off!

Parts are plentiful. Massey Ferguson has their "Heritage Parts" network, along with tons of aftermarket parts. The only thing that has slowed these tractors from becoming collectors items is the fact they're still very popular as everyday workers. You won't find any tractor more usefull or more versatile. In it's day the 135 and 150's principal competition was the 3000 Ford. I've owned 2 of them and from years of experience, the 150 would work circles around the 3000 (which was no weak sister by any stretch)

You can find 'em in the $4000 range, although many sell upwards of $6000, even as high as $7000.

You want a more collectable, older version, one that sells for LESS? Look for Massey Harris 50's, Ferguson F40's, and Massey Ferguson 50's. They're the first generation of the 150. Plenty around. I grew up on my dads F40.

Masseys are fast becoming a VERY popular collectors tractor. There's even a magazine about to hit the market dealing with collectable Massey's. The 150 is one of the rarer early Massey's.

 

[ToadHill]

I'd look at a MF 65, plenty of parts available and they work hard forever.

 

[keving]

So let's have a little more information. Is your intent to get a a collectable antique that you can use on occasion, more so than a useable, functional older tractor that just happens to have some collectability? Is it "form over function"? Or, function THEN form?

Function is #1 - collectibility is not at the top of my list. Fun old tractor that works great, has parts available is desired. It will serve as a second to my M7040. I will likely keep the landscape rake or drag harrow or box blade on this tractor.

How much will you use this tractor? Just a few hours a year and in more of a "play" capacity, or will it earn its keep? What chores do you envision this tractor doing on a routine basis? Is fuel economy a goal, or would you qualify that as an added benefit should you happen to luck on to a fuel efficient tractor? How important is it to end up with certain features like 3-point hitch, live power, power steering, draft control, remote hydraulics, good lighting, ect?

I will use this tractor about 20 Hours per month. I will be maintaining my driveway (.25 mile long), finish cutting and other odd jobs - like hayrides!

3PH is very important, live power, power steering, good lighting is desired. Draft control, remotes are not necessary, but if they are on the tractor, bonus.

Just what do you consider "antique"? Or "collectable"? 25 years old? 50?

Yes. As mentioned above, I'm not so concerned about the collectibility.


Do you favor any certain brands? Models? What tractors are in your history? Did you grow up around "grampa's M FarmAll", or any other particular tractor?

I do favor - Ford, Massey, Farmall, Deere, in no specific order.


OK...My opinion again. Starting back in the early 1970's, I bought and re-sold any tractor I could make a buck on. I kept records of all my sales. Just recently I decided to go back and count just how many tractors I've traded. 97 so far. Just about every color and brand. Mostly I stayed with utility or rowcrop tractors, 30 to 100 hp, and tried to stay with popular models that would sell good. In addition, I've owned (for my own use) Fords, Deere's IH, Allis Chalmers, Olivers, Case, and a bunch of Ferguson/Massey Fergusons.

Without a doubt, the most functional, efficient, reliable, easy to maintain, and cost effective tractor I've ever owned, I STILL own. Its been here since new in 1971. That's the tractor in my avatar. A 1971 Massey Ferguson 150. They were built from 1964 through 1975. Essentially, it's a beefed up 135. They used the entire drive train of a 135, with the addition of a heavier front axle that gave it 9" longer wheelbase, a bigger cooling system, more fuel capacity, a better air filter system, better power steering, and they came standard with just about every option available on a 135. In 1964, it became the most fuel efficient tractor ever tested at the University of Nebraska testing facility, a mark it held for near 20 years. The longer wheel base gives the 150 a better balance than a 135. They'll hanlde rear-mounted loads better than any tractor its size I've ever been around. Ask anyone who's ever owned one, the Perkins diesel is the finest small diesel engine ever produced. They run forever, produce excellent power on very little fuel. In original configuration, they were 38.7HP (PTO) The very same engine was available through the years in various models. With an adjustment of the fuel screw on the injector pump, they were rated at anywhere from 32 HP to 52. I've had mine set to where it dyno's 47 hP and it's been there for more than 35 years. It STILL runs like a new one. No blow-by, starts good in the coldest of weather, excellent low end torque (a trademark of small Perkins diesels) all without ever having the valve cover off!

Parts are plentiful. Massey Ferguson has their "Heritage Parts" network, along with tons of aftermarket parts. The only thing that has slowed these tractors from becoming collectors items is the fact they're still very popular as everyday workers. You won't find any tractor more usefull or more versatile. In it's day the 135 and 150's principal competition was the 3000 Ford. I've owned 2 of them and from years of experience, the 150 would work circles around the 3000 (which was no weak sister by any stretch)

You can find 'em in the $4000 range, although many sell upwards of $6000, even as high as $7000.

You want a more collectable, older version, one that sells for LESS? Look for Massey Harris 50's, Ferguson F40's, and Massey Ferguson 50's. They're the first generation of the 150. Plenty around. I grew up on my dads F40.

Masseys are fast becoming a VERY popular collectors tractor. There's even a magazine about to hit the market dealing with collectable Massey's. The 150 is one of the rarer early Massey's.

This is excellent information and exactly what I was looking for. I will be checking the 150s out. FWJ, you continue to provide excellent advise and I thank you for taking the time to post this and respect your opinion! THANK YOU!

 

[toddol1971]

I agree the 150's are great, but the 135, 165, 35, 65's will probably be cheaper. My 65 is a little bigger than an 8n. The same technology was used from like 55 till now. If you go look at a massey 231 you'll be looking at my tractor. It will be a different color though & have a diesel. All controls & shift patterns are the same. They had a good thing going so they didnt change a bunch of stuff. So buy an older massey for 3500 bucks. It sounds like you could use any of the above tractors mentioned since there seems to be no horsepower minimum for what you'll be doing. Sure there are other tractors to be had, but there either more money or dont have a 3 point. Good luck.

 

[piller]

Wow, lot's of excellent advice here, I'm really enjoying this thread. I like the older MF tractors and Perkins diesel engines. I've seen the MF 35's, MF 135's and so forth.

A friend just dropped his MF 35 gas off at hour place last night. He's been making hay and having trouble with the tractor, just got it repaired. I think the Perkins diesel engine MF's are probably the better way to go?

The MF's with two digits like the 35 are they the first generation? Is the 135 a better machine, is it the second generation? What about the 200 series models like the 245 and 255, are they third generation, are they better, what's the thinking on those models?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Wow, lot's of excellent advice here, I'm really enjoying this thread. I like the older MF tractors and Perkins diesel engines. I've seen the MF 35's, MF 135's and so forth.

A friend just dropped his MF 35 gas off at hour place last night. He's been making hay and having trouble with the tractor, just got it repaired. I think the Perkins diesel engine MF's are probably the better way to go?

The MF's with two digits like the 35 are they the first generation? Is the 135 a better machine, is it the second generation? What about the 200 series models like the 245 and 255, are they third generation, are they better, what's the thinking on those models?

The 35/50/65, ect, were essentially "Ferguson" tractors during the transition period when the Massey Harris/Ferguson merger was taking place. In November of 1957, they were re-badged as Massey Fergusons. So yes, they are the 1st generation of MF's. In 1964 Massey Ferguson unveiled the first "in house" design that was totally MASSEY FERGUSON. They used a great deal of what was successful from the earlier models, but added a MUCH improved hydraulic/draft control system, more modern styling, and many improved features. The real change was the addition of the 1000 series (1100, 1135) of big HP tractors. The "DX" series was born (100 series and 1000 series)

The 135 in particular was EXTREMELY successful. During it's production era, it was the #1 selling tractor model in the world. Plants in Detroit Michigan, Banner Lane in England, France, Mexico, and several other satelite plants churned out hundreds of thousands of the classic little tractor. MF never kept detailed production numbers of individual models. Serial numbers were common to ALL DX series tractors. However, it is estimated that the Detroit plant and Banner Lane totalled someting over 550,000 135's with French and Mexican production estimated near 150,000 units. At one stage in it's production, 1 out of every 4 new tractors sold in England were 135 Masseys.

In 1975, the 200 series was unveiled in US markets. There were slight improvements, but the models that replaced the 135 had early "issues" primarily with a new steering system. The 235 was a "good" tractor, but never equalled the popularity of the 135. By the time Massey had the bugs worked out, the small farm tractor market in the US and England had gave way to higher horsepower models.

As the later descendants of the 135 came and went, some really great tractors were built. Most noteably IMHO, the 250, built in the 1980's and early 90's. It was the finest and furthest development of the 135 lineage.

So Massey built tractors that were probably "better" than the 135, but none will ever match the ledgendary status of that little tractor

 

[keving]

I have located a MF150 that appears to be in good condition. Going to look later this week! I'll post some pics.

Any special things to look for, unique to MF150s, when checking this out?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I have located a MF150 that appears to be in good condition. Going to look later this week! I'll post some pics.

Any special things to look for, unique to MF150s, when checking this out?

Check under the bellhousing. You SHOULD find a couple weep holes with the ends of cotter pins sticking through. (The cotter pins are there to keep the holes free of dirt and obstructions) They might show a trace of oil. Not unusual. If there's excessive amounts of oil, you may have a problem. On older Perkins diesels, the oil pan gaskets can leak, resulting in some oil spilling into the bellhousing. A relatively easy fix. (New pan gaskets) Very seldom is it a rear main seal, but that is possible. (about 1 out of 100 times you see engine oil at the bellhousing....) Transmission oil may be a sign of input shaft seal failing, or, if the tractor has MultiPower, the seals failing on that.

Check front axle pivot. ESPECIALLY so if the tractor has had a loader, that pivot can wear. It's not difficult or terribly expensive to fix, but should be noted.

Check for smooth operation of the 3-point lift.

Beyond that, just look at all the usual suspects on ANY used tractor.

 

[keving]

Check under the bellhousing. You SHOULD find a couple weep holes with the ends of cotter pins sticking through. (The cotter pins are there to keep the holes free of dirt and obstructions) They might show a trace of oil. Not unusual. If there's excessive amounts of oil, you may have a problem. On older Perkins diesels, the oil pan gaskets can leak, resulting in some oil spilling into the bellhousing. A relatively easy fix. (New pan gaskets) Very seldom is it a rear main seal, but that is possible. (about 1 out of 100 times you see engine oil at the bellhousing....) Transmission oil may be a sign of input shaft seal failing, or, if the tractor has MultiPower, the seals failing on that.

Check front axle pivot. ESPECIALLY so if the tractor has had a loader, that pivot can wear. It's not difficult or terribly expensive to fix, but should be noted.

Check for smooth operation of the 3-point lift.

Beyond that, just look at all the usual suspects on ANY used tractor.

Thanks for the info. I will check it out.

I have also found a MF35 Turf Special. It looks like a interesting tractor with mowing attachment and the tractor is wider and lower for mowing ditch banks and hills. I've not seen any pics of this particular tractor but I will be looking at it on Monday.

Thanks again for all your input!

 

[Soundguy]

Good luck. post pics if ya get it.

soundguy

 

[NEohiodad]

I like the Ford Jubilee myself 1953 just got mine put back together found radiator,exhast manafold and belts and hoses tune up kit coil all within a day had a great time putting it all together with my 15 year old son every bolt out no problem and all bolted back together no problem it runs like a charm love it not to big not to small also own 1971 economy and 1976 Kubota 4wd

neohiodad

 

[keving]

I have a friend that has a fairly good looking MF165 with loader that was given to him by a local farmer. The 3PH is not working and the PS seems to be having issues. The loader is yellow and has a MF tag on it. It's a diesel, about 75% rubber on front and rear. Is the loader worth anything separate from the tractor (is there a market? and how much $ ?) I really don't need the loader. I understand that this is a great, strong tractor and I'm trying to come up with a price to offer. Any suggestions as to a price range? I'm going to get some pics soon.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I have a friend that has a fairly good looking MF165 with loader that was given to him by a local farmer. The 3PH is not working and the PS seems to be having issues. The loader is yellow and has a MF tag on it. It's a diesel, about 75% rubber on front and rear. Is the loader worth anything separate from the tractor (is there a market? and how much $ ?) I really don't need the loader. I understand that this is a great, strong tractor and I'm trying to come up with a price to offer. Any suggestions as to a price range? I'm going to get some pics soon.

Sounds like an MF "industrial" loader. Does it have it's own hydraulic pump? (front mounted?) It'll fit a list of Massey tractors. Worth anywhere from $500 to $1500+ depending on who's buying. If I was selling, I wouldn't part with it for under $1200.

Power steering "issues" could be a number of things. USUALLY 150/165/175 PS issues are a simple adjustment problem.

Lift could be anywhere from minor adjustment to pump rebuild.....

With "unknown" issues, but good running engine/working tranny, the tractor would be worth $3500+. Get everything working, $4500 to $6000, depending on overall condition.

 

[keving]

Here's my new MF165. It was bought in late 1973 or early 1974 and owned by the same farm. My plan is to sell the loader and give that money to my friend that gave me this tractor!

I have the original manual with the maintenance records up to 1999. It had a new seat in 1977. Looks like I need a new one

Power steering is fine. Just need to "bump" steer. I'm going to have to learn to make some adjustments. I'm going to get the 3PH working and then go through all the fluids. What else should I be checking for?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Post (or PM me) the serial # of the tractor. It's on a small plate below the dash, right in front of the shifters. With that, we can determine the year (and approx month) of manufacture.

I see why the 3-point hitch doesn't work. A relatively simple fix that will ALMOST take care of itself when you remove the loader. The point where the hydraulics are attached to the rear end housing (under the seat) should have an isolator valve (loader OR 3-point) or, once the loader is removed, a plate that blacks off the hydraulic ports going to the loader. An isolator valve allows the flow going to the loader circuit to be shut off, directing flow to the hitch. The "blank plates" appear on ebay quite frequently. If you need, I can furnish you with a Massey Ferguson part # for the plate. (If possible, post a close up of the point where the hydraulic lines attach to the rear end....That MAY be an isolator valve.)

Does the MultiPower work?

Things to check. Look under the transmission and bellhousing. THere should be 2 weep holes. There should be cotter pins sticking through them. (They keep the holes from clogging with dirt) Is there any oil showing at these holes? Significant amounts? Transmission oil or engine oil? If tranny oil, look to replace input shaft seal OR MultiPower seals. Engine oil? 99 times in 100, rear gaskets on the oil pan. VERY rarely the rear main seal.

If you have ANY electrical issues, (gauges, charging, ect) replace the oil pressure switch attached to the oil pressure gauge. It detects oil pressure upon start-up, switching on power to most of the electrical components. Any electrical issues are almost impossible to correct if this switch is being "difficult". It's available through TISCO as well as MF/AGCO. I can't count the number of times I've seen people trying to diagnose and repair elect. troubles where this switch was causing the problems.

Since this tractor has had a loader, good chance you'll need to look at the front axle pivot point. It has a replaceable bushing. It tends to wear (excessively) with loader use. When worn, it will cause a very sloppy steering and handling.

Get a service manual and parts manual to go with the owners manual. You'll be WAY ahead of the curve. Parts manual is valuable even without part #'s. It shows exploded views of sub-assemblies. Owners manual is very limited and vague. You NEED the service manual.

Contact BIG DEAN AUSTIN. http://hometown.aol.com/bigdean62/index.html Get his CD on service and repairs to the 100 series MF's. It's the single greatest piece of information you'll get on these tractors.

 

[keving]

FWJ,

Here's some photos showing the close ups under the seat and the weep holes under the tractor. I also took a photo of approximately 18 hours of "drips". There is a photo showing the serial number. Please let me know if there is a better angle for a photo and I'll get it.

Thanks so much for your direction.

I'm ordering the disc too!