Wheel Spacers

[LWB]

Just a lame question. I've noticed so many threads here discuss members desire to order wheel spacers for stability/tire clearance. One person even wrote that if he ordered a 3x20 or 4x20 with a cab he'd order them for sure. I can't speak for any 3x20 owners but I own a 4720 with a cab. My tractor has 8 poition rear tires (spaced in 4" increments). They are R1's. I'm pretty certain the Industrial tires are similarly attached. I'm not at all certain about the turf tires. Are some of the current model JD CUT's set up different?

 

[orlo]

Hi:

I'm not sure about the 4x20 series but on the 3x20 series the Ag's come with 8 position wheels but the Turfs (R3's) and Industrials (R4's) come with only two position wheels that only buy you an inch to an inch and a half.

On the Special Turfs I think they are two position also but there is a 6" difference between the in and out position.

 

[Nuru]

I could not get the special turks on with the valve stems on the inside as it looked like the axle was gona clip that stem. However, with the stems out I still got an extra 4 inches of width overall and the stance seems to be pretty wide

 

[Nuru]

See.

But on the front, the width is the same as the R3 4 plys, but the amount of tread on the ground is much more.

 

[AKfish]

Your question is not lame... a good thing to pursue further. You'd like some additional feedback regarding why anyone would have a problem with the tire configurations and stability of the newer cab models --- 3000 and 4000 20 series.

I believe that even with the widest setting available with R1's you will likely only gain about 4-5 inches per wheel (at least that's the case with my 14.9x24's R1's). And I think you'll find that the valve stem will be on the inside next to the axle.

That said, having the wheels extended out does improve stability and with fluid and/or axle weights the tractor is definitely a more stable, safer platform.

However, if you'd like the convenience of the valve stem being more accessible and having the wheel plate mounted in a center-alignment (not offset) with the rim/tire assembly, then wheel extensions are the ticket.

AKfish

 

[LWB]

Your question is not lame... a good thing to pursue further. You'd like some additional feedback regarding why anyone would have a problem with the tire configurations and stability of the newer cab models --- 3000 and 4000 20 series.

I believe that even with the widest setting available with R1's you will likely only gain about 4-5 inches per wheel (at least that's the case with my 14.9x24's R1's). And I think you'll find that the valve stem will be on the inside next to the axle.

That said, having the wheels extended out does improve stability and with fluid and/or axle weights the tractor is definitely a more stable, safer platform.

However, if you'd like the convenience of the valve stem being more accessible and having the wheel plate mounted in a center-alignment (not offset) with the rim/tire assembly, then wheel extensions are the ticket.

AKfish

AK: Thanks for your interest and input. My configuration must be a bit different than yours, however, if I follow you right because my 4720 came with the valve stems on the inside . My rear tread is 51.3" and when I reverse (L/R) wheels and rims, leaving the flanges as they are, I gain 4" per side according to the manual; which is about all that's practical because of the loader width, etc. The valve stems would thankfully then be on the outside. The front tires should still fall within the rear track. I'll update this if it turns out to be different.

 

[Nuru]

Hmmmm, stems on the inside and that is the narrow position? I actually like that, as putting your tires to the wide position is so natural for stability, it would be great to have the stems on the outside at the widest position.

 

[AKfish]

That is unusual. The dealer must have mounted the tires differently (reversed the tread direction on the rims).

I reviewed the info in my owner's manual and the greatest distance from the narrow setting to the widest with 8-position rims and 24" R1 tires is 12" (6" per wheel). With 28" tires it jumps another inch -- 13". But 2 of the 8 settings are not recommended.

Of course, chasing this question around leads the discussion away from the real question --- are the cab models top heavy and less stable than the non-cab models with identical wheel/rim configurations?

I didn't get any "seat time" working the cab 4320 at the local dealer; but after climbing in and getting a perspective on the layout as well as how the tractor "feels". IMHO, I think the cab models are a less stable platform than a comparable open station model -- straight up (literally).

If I were to buy a cab model (and I might do just that...) I'd want the 8-position rims AND wheel spacers.

For any number of reasons -- I would try to stay away from filled tires and wheel weights. The extended ballast box and I-match hitch and/or a box-blade-tiller, etc. on the 3pt would be my choice for ballast.

AKfish

 

[LWB]

Certainly everbody has their own comfort zone, but I used this 4720 w/cab and an 84" box blade this spring to pull down snow (ice) piles to hasten their melt with no scares. The back tires were as high as 3'-4' above the ground on uneven terrain and there was no feeling of instability, even when backing onto the piles with the blade raised (51" tread setting). The tires are loaded at about 475# each. So far I'm very pleased with this set up, though it just makes sense to move the tires out when the option is available. I agree with everyone else as to the importance of taking safety factors into consideration. But in my case the cab just hasn't been a detriment from that perspective. There are times that I would like it to be removable because they're definitely a nuisance when trying to maneuver around tree brances, etc.

 

[dirtworksequip]

LWB, I have not been around one of the 4720 cab tractors, but I know my 3520 with out of the box setup was way to narrow and unstable for my application. I ended up putting 4 inch Unverferth wheel extensions on. Which help a lot. The 3520 is still not as stable on side hills as my old JD 870. If I get time one of these days I'll measure some of the slopes to see what percent or degree they actually are. Also Deere must have recognized that there was a need for a wider rear wheel footprint because they came out with 4 inch extensions themselves.

Sincerely,
Dirt

 

[Nuru]

LWB, I have not been around one of the 4720 cab tractors, but I know my 3520 with out of the box setup was way to narrow and unstable for my application. I ended up putting 4 inch Unverferth wheel extensions on. Which help a lot. The 3520 is still not as stable on side hills as my old JD 870. If I get time one of these days I'll measure some of the slopes to see what percent or degree they actually are. Also Deere must have recognized that there was a need for a wider rear wheel footprint because they came out with 4 inch extensions themselves.

Sincerely,
Dirt

yeah the cab tractors tend to be a little top heavy and well they should due to the cab and the resultant CG change on the tractor. If I go to a cab in the future, I am definitely going to go for hub extenders and wide setting and wider tires.

 

[LWB]

LWB, I have not been around one of the 4720 cab tractors, but I know my 3520 with out of the box setup was way to narrow and unstable for my application. I ended up putting 4 inch Unverferth wheel extensions on. Which help a lot. The 3520 is still not as stable on side hills as my old JD 870. If I get time one of these days I'll measure some of the slopes to see what percent or degree they actually are. Also Deere must have recognized that there was a need for a wider rear wheel footprint because they came out with 4 inch extensions themselves.

Sincerely,
Dirt

Guys: I just checked the Deere website manual and the maximum width with R1's for the Four Thousand Twenty series is 89+" compared to 68+" for the Three Thousand Twenty series. The cab itself adds only around another 600 pounds. The CG of the cab IMHO wouldn't raise the entire tractor CG very far. Now, if your'e talking about driving sideways on steep hills in bumpy terrain it would certainly tip easier with it than without it. Agreed. I'm just saying I don't notice it to be tippy. If Deere is adding spacers there must be a market for them. But it appears at least the R3's don't even have the 8 position option, so that would make it worthwhile right there. As for me, I can't imagine needing more than a 7.5' wide tractor without buying one that's better suited for that type of work. Of course, as always, just one man's opinion.

 

[AKfish]

Was at the local dealer the other day --- they're unloading and setting up the new models for this Spring and Summer season.

While we were kicking the tires on the new stuff, I happened to see the neighbors new (last summer) JD5420 with cab and 542 FEL. Sweet hay-baling, MoCo machine!

As I walked around the machine, I noticed that the air filter at the top of the cab was kinda hanging out and noted that it was crushed -- heck the whole top edge of the cab was crunched! But there wasn't a single broken or even cracked window in the whole cab!

Then we noticed that the tire next to the crunched side of the cab had slid in towards the cab -- the other tire was offset further out on the axle.

I mentioned it to one of the mechanics and he said that the owner had laid the tractor on it's side while feeding a large round bale. The bale was low to the ground but on a side hill with snow and ice and the tractor slide over in SLOW motion and just layed down.

They had it in the shop to completely replace the cab --- luckily, he figured the FEL was still straight and would not have to be replaced but they were gonna go through the whole tractor and see what needed to be replaced.

I'd bet that the inside rear wheel was toast, too!

Anyway, the point of this is --- the CG is higher on a cab tractor vs an open station. Can't change that simple geometry.

All tractors can roll and the greatest, most important safety feature is Operator caution.

LWB -- I was doing the same thing last week with my tractor. Backing up onto the huge snow piles in my pasture to drag the tops down with my 84" rear blade so they would melt sometime before July. Mixed with horse manure, they melt real slow, otherwise.

I kept the FEL low -- just above the snow and backed up in a straight line (tires square with each other) with the rear blade just off the snow, too.

Sittin' up there 5-6 feet is certainly a time when your senses are focused!

AKfish

 

[dirtworksequip]

LWB, if I had the Ag wheels and tire I would have not had to get the wheel extensions,because I could have been able to adjusted the wheels to a wider position that would have worked for me. With the R4 wheels you only gain about 2 more inches with the wheels set at the wide position. Thats still not enough width. Also one dealer I talked to said that now any tractor they sell with a FEL must have the tires loaded before it leaves their lot. So, that tells me that there have been a problems with the narrow 3x20's laying on their side. I bet you see a design change soon............ie. wider axle.

 

[LWB]

AK: Focused is the right word. There are still jobs I'd rather get to before my son does, and he's thirty five years old. My piles are mixed with gravel from the back parking lot. Like you say, keeping the back wheels square to the ground is best but when it comes loose in chunks........ I lower the outside scarifiers only, so as not to make the middle a tipping point. Seems to work pretty well.