What's your warmup time?

Tom_H · Sep 4, 2005

What\'s your warmup time?

I usually let the block warm up at idle for 10 min. or so or until the thermostat valve opens and the temp. gauge moves to the 20% or so mark. How many of you warm up first? Does anyone just crank and go with a diesel?

Even though it's summer, lately I've been plugging in the block heater an hour before cranking; then I just crank and go. It saves a little time on the clock, though I wonder if it really saves any on the engine life. I also wonder if it is overall any more energy efficient to use an hour of electricity vs. 10 min. of diesel fuel at low r.p.m. I also wonder whether I'm just warming the coolant and thermostat, but not actually warming the entire block sufficiently.

What are your thoughts?

frank_f15 · Sep 4, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

I think you might be missing the point on warm ups, true in cold weather a warm block will help with starting, But the warm up is more imprtant for the hydraulic fluid to warm up before doing any work. during the summer i only give it a min. or two, but during the winter i will give it 10 min. then cycle all hydraulics and give it a few min. more. on really cold days (0 to 10 deg) i usually give it more, start it up and go have another cup

Tom_H · Sep 4, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

There are a lot of truckers who, even in summer, warm up their rigs before throttling to higher r.p.m. Many truck and bus drivers will not shut their engines down (even in summer) if they anticipate being at a stop for less than half an hour or for some, an hour. I've always heard that in a diesel it's not good to bring the engine from cold or even standard summer temperature up to operating temperature in a short time i.e. that it's not good for expansion and contraction rates of pistons, cylinders, rings, head, block, gasket, head bolts, etc. I've heard this all my life from so many people that it is difficult for me to believe I've "missed the point."

Ewang207 · Sep 4, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

The manual for my new L3130 states that the purpose for warming up is to allow sufficient time for fluids (oil) to circulate and reach every part. This cannot be accomplished with a block heater. It also lists reccommended warm times according to outside temperatures.

Theowegian · Sep 4, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

I have a L3130. I typically wait for one or two engine temperature bars before loading it up. Often, tho I have to move it someplace to warm it up, like out of my machine shed. But for real loads, like mowing or FEL work, I always wait for four bars, then let her rip!

I do confess that I shut it down often and restart, like when hooking up PTO shafts or taking off the FEL.

dwight

RoyJackson · Sep 4, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

I always give my 790 a few minutes to warm...summer and, if necessary, more time in cooler weather.

I never operate at PTO RPM until the temp gage is reading normal operating temperature. This is in the lower part of the "green" section...which is where my Deere typically stays.

r0GuE · Sep 4, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

I start it, give it a crack on the throttle to get it above the rough zone, back it out of the shed and lift the deck. Then I get off and hit the deck guide wheels with a shot of break free and kick them for a spin. By the time I'm done with that, I go half throttle, and wait 10 sec or so, then wide open for a sec or two, then down to just above idle for deck start. Then I throttle up to 80% and go at it.

After you surpass that of a mechanical miscreant and begin to take good care of your tractor, I believe there are diminishing returns (greatly diminishing) to all the little nuances of tractor care (a great example being a man plugging in a heater core before starting a tractor in the summer).

Not poking fun, just expressing a newfound personal opinion, which I think we might all at least partially agree.

Still, it’s sometimes fun to try to outwit tractor fate (like me lubing my deck pulleys). I'd bet a majority of us will be in a hole before our tractors are shot. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

JWE · Sep 4, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

I warm my BX2200 up until the temp gauge starts to move (summer and winter). No scientific reasoning behind it. That's just the way I have always done it.

I agree with Rogue, I will probably be in the grave before the tractor wears out.

John

Boomerang1 · Sep 4, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

Some truck drivers don't shut off their engines in the summer because they don't want the inside of their cabs to cool down. A diesel engine in a a truck will actually get hotter after it is shut down. Also don't let a diesel engine idol at low speed because it can't produce enough heat to keep from sooting. In most trucks, when you hit the resume switch for the cruise, the rpms will raise to a preset high idol. If you hold down the switch, you can set any rpm you desire up to full throttle.

Tom_H · Sep 5, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

( I believe there are diminishing returns (greatly diminishing) to all the little nuances of tractor care (a great example being a man plugging in a heater core before starting a tractor in the summer).

Not poking fun, just expressing a newfound personal opinion, which I think we might all at least partially agree.)

We all bring to life's new situations, the experiences of our past. Maybe I'm a little gun shy, or more like "bank account" shy. Let me explain. In 1980, Volkswagon introduced a mid-year pickup model of its diesel Rabbit. The engine was a converted gas engine: cast iron block, aluminum head. I was one of many for whom the engine just didn't seem to work. The block and head expanded and contracted at differing rates. After a couple of years VW came out with new head bolts made of some exotic alloy which was supposed to alleviate the situation, but it didn't. They said to always warm the thing up slowly in order to avoid problems. I always did so, but still, in 166,000 miles, that thing suffered 3 blown head gaskets and two cracked blocks. All 5 events happened at the same spot: the right front corner at the head bolt hole. I heard of others who experienced the same fate, while I've met still others here on TBN who never had a problem. The fact that I drove it in everything from -10 to +120 degrees may have had something to do with it, as well as with my cautious feelings about the effects of temperature.

Anyhow, I do baby my Kubota. No way do I plan to have 5 major engine jobs in 13 years again. I know my 'Bota has a quality "real" diesel engine, not some pretend gasoline retrofit. Using the block plug isn't so much to prevent a catastrophe, but just a substitute for warming up by running the engine. I do warm up to avoid wear and tear. Using the heater in its stead is just a little experiment in saving time, fuel, and chronometer time.

Apparently, there are others who do always warm up, regardless of the season. Anyways, that's just what I wanted to find out-how many of you do.

r0GuE · Sep 5, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

Point taken, but, keep in mind (as another had mentioned), that warming up the engine oil with a heater does nothing to warm the hydro fluid. Running the engine does start the hydro pump and would warm the fluid (and the oil). I would be very inclined to have the hydro fluid warmed before starting to work it. In the winter (even after a significant warm up) I notice that the hydro seems sluggish. After working a while, it comes around.

As to the rabbit.. I think that issue speaks solely to poor design. All the mecho-voo doo in the world won't save you from a poor design.

Seems anything designed for efficiency ends up costing more and thus being less efficient. I have a front load washer that leaked (three times and is leaking now again) that burned out a motor board and ruined a shock. I have a furnace with an auto closing damper that ruins the draft and causes the chimney to cool and condense (that ruined my chimney). And the rabbit that should by all rights have been a gasoline engine, was converted to diesel to save gas (thus energy). Care to guess how much energy it took to run the tools and machines to make all those iron heads? If that had been a gas rabbit (as the original engineer had designed it), you'd have likely never had a problem.

Theowegian · Sep 5, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

Hello Tom H:
I can understand your reservations about warm up time and diesels. But it is kinda difficult to make comparisions between a kubota and a VW Rabbit - probably the only thing in common is the fuel (and they are both fun to drive).

My point is, I suggest you continue to research your question and let us know what you find out. Be open minded enough that when you find out something definitive, then be open to change your practices.

I doubt what your are doing is hurting anything. But I doubt what your are doing is helping much either. Actually, as a former mechanic I think that you paying close attention to routine maintenance of all parts on your tractor will pay off sooner than close attention to warm up times. For example, wheel bolt torques, fuel filter cleaning, air filter cleaning, changing oil frequently, greasing routines, etc. ...You get the idea...

I suggest some ideas:
1. Ask the rental yards if they ever had a blown diesel engine (gasket). You know the folks who use rentals are notoriously hard on rental equipment,
2. Ask your dealer or better yet, the dealers' mechanics
3. Call Kubota service folks and ask them,
4. Talk to a diesel mechanic or diesel instructor at your local vocational tech college
5. Search the archives at this website on diesel engines
6. Let this thread run a while and see what kind of opinions you get. Of course, that's the best idea ... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dwight

drzmatt · Sep 5, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

Most truckers take longer to warm up and cool down their engines because they are turbocharged. If your engine doesn't have a turbo warm up and cool down times are much shorter. I'll let my 7800 warm up in the winter, but in the summer I might wait 30 seconds before I go.

btolle · Sep 5, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

B7510 in Texas.

Summer: I start it, set it at 1,200 RPM's, and about 30 seconds later I slowly raise 3PH and FEL enough to back out of the shed. Then I slowly (in Lo range) move toward the gate. By the time I am through the gate and have the gate closed the temp gauge has started moving. I may raise the RPM's to 1,500-1,700 range and head for where I am going to work. By the time I start working the gauge is in the normal operating range.

Winter: I let it warm for a couple of minutes (Winter here is about 50 degrees) and then do the above routine.

If bushhogging I wait until it has been in the normal temp range before running PTO speed.

If I get off and let it run I set the RPM's to about 1,100-1,200 range rather than a dead idle.

Bill Tolle

flusher · Sep 7, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

Like you, I have a B7510. Mine is an HST. I generally follow your warmup procedure and I make it a point to run the engine for at least 15 minutes before shutting down so it reaches somewhere near steady operating temperature.

But it's not always possible to follow this routine. For example, if I'm attaching implements to the 3PH, I (almost always) shut down the engine before climbing down from the seat. And I may have to repeat this several times to get hitched. But changing implements is more like a monthly, rather than a daily, thing with me, so I'm betting that the engine can take this start-stop action without a lot of stress or wear problems. Time will tell if I'm fooling myself.

ByronBob · Sep 7, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

I bought my 2230 2 winters ago and didn't have a block heater on it at first. My dealer said I didn't need one. The tractor started easy enough and moved with no extra effort.

One winter am when it was -15f I went to start the tractor and you could hear the engine struggle to start, and moving the HST was impossible because it whined way more than normal. It was then I realized I wanted a block heater regardless of what anyone said.

Now the engine starts like it does in the summer no matter the temp outside because the block heater works really well for lower temps. The delta difference in the summer might be 10-20 degrees from the block temp and outside temp. In the winter this delta might be 80 degrees with a block heater here in New York.

The benefit is really seen in the lower temps which thankfully for you in Sacramento you don't need to worry about.

To answer your question my time in the summer is seconds, in the winter it's an hour.

N80 · Sep 7, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

The manual for the L4400 says to warm up for 5 minutes. It makes no reference to ambient temperature. The manual also states that the tractor should be shut down anytime you are attaching something to the PTO.

I admit to being lax in the warm-up department. Usually a minute in the summertime. I'll probably follow the manual in the winter.

Berniep · Sep 8, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

 Many truck and bus drivers will not shut their engines down (even in summer) if they anticipate being at a stop for less than half an hour or for some, an hour. I've always heard that in a diesel it's not good to bring the engine from cold or even standard summer temperature up to operating temperature in a short time i.e. that it's not good for expansion and contraction rates of pistons, cylinders, rings, head, block, gasket, head bolts, etc. I've heard this all my life from so many people that it is difficult for me to believe I've "missed the point." 

I have heard that too but it's one of those wives tales. It may have been true years ago but time and again test after test shows that leaving a modern engine idling for for short periods is worse than shutting it down. (Not that anyone is saying you are destroying an engine letting it run) One test I read they had local drivers in one company go all out to reduce idle time, to the point of shutting it off at stoplights. When the engines were torn down they showed no abnormal wear. Now you wouldn't want to shut it down right after you have been using it at wide open throttle but you are not hurting anything if you shut it down to go do something for 10 minutes.
Sorry to rant but those guys that can't even be botherd to shut the truck off to fuel really irritate me.(betcha can't tell I'm a truck driver

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
These ain't Otto's diesels any more
Here are a couple of links. These deal with trucks but the technology is pretty much the same.
from theOffice of energy eficiency in Canada

EPA info

dillo99 · Sep 8, 2005

Re: What\'s your warmup time?

I'm not very religious about warming my B7500. I usual give it a minute or so sitting in the barn. Generally I am driving it somewhere before I put any load on it or do much with the hydraulics other than lifting them off the floor. So I figure by the time I get to the work location everything is pretty warmed up.

I should probably give it more idle time after start up - but i guess I am too impatient.

MC