What's your top five?

02_powerstroke · Dec 31, 2004

What\'s your top five?

I'm looking for a tractor to buy to mow about three acres with and clear snow from a 400' drive and would like to get some unbiased feedback from other people. What I would like to know is this, if price didn't matter and you were to pick your top five compact tractors in the 22~27 hp range based on quality, userfriendliness & durability what would they be.

I will be going to an implement sale in February and would like to learn as much as I can about various models in this category before going. Since I won't be shopping for one particular model I think that it would be wise to have 4 or 5 different options and then just look for a good buy on one of them.

So far of the new ones that I have looked at, I really like the Kubota B7610 Hydrostatic model.

Thanks in advance,
Matt Sullivan /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bob_Skurka · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

Matt

My favorite is the New Holland TC24, it is roughly the same size as the B7610, but beefier with a stronger front end loader, yet still light enough to mow the lawn without tearing it up. In 2005 the TC24 is getting 2 more HP and the designation is changing to the TC26DA. The view when using the FEL is better with the TC24, see the picture at the link below to compare my TC24 with my B2910 - admittadly the B2910 is slightly larger than the B7610, but the view is similar. If you have a CASE/Farmall dealer, the DX24 is the same tractor as the NH TC24 -- both are made by Case/New Holland corporation, the difference is paint color and minor design but functional and ergonimics are the same. NH products are modestly heavy tractors.
NH versus Kubota front view

Probably #2 in my traditional tractor choices would be the B2410 with the bispeed front wheel option. The 2410 is a full featured version of the B7610. I believe both are being upgraded in 2005 with improvements. The entire Kubota line is well refined and the engines are very smooth. Both the 7610 & 2410 will be lighter than other conventional CUTs, great for mowing, not so great some tasks.

#3 & #4 . . . thinking way outside the box let me throw in Ventrac and PowerTrac. These are both UNCONVENTIONAL tractors, with implements mounted in the FRONT. They are amazing tractors. Dealers for Ventracs are hard to find, I live in Indiana and my Ventrac came from a dealer in central Wisconsin (who still supports my machine and gives great service!). The Ventrac 4100 is awesome. PowerTrac has no dealers, but the mechanics are simple; check out the PT422 or PT425. Both brands are similar in many ways, yet different in many ways. The front mount implements make mowing MUCH easier. The 4wd with articulated bodies are the most turf friendly on the planet and you have to really try to damage your lawn, and the traction is far better than a traditional rigid frame tractor. The Ventrac will give the best cut quality of any machine on this list for mowing.

#5, I'll admit to no personal use of this machine, but the JD4115 has an excellent reputation.

Within your criteria of 22-27hp, and with your liking of HST, I believe there is a Mahindra model that might fit very well. I am not familar with the Massey line, but I believe they also offer a small frame in your power range with HST. The Mahindra will likely be the heaviest tractor in this size/power range so if you have clay soils it might leave ruts in your yard when mowing if the soil is wet from rain. You might also want to consider the SUB-CUT tractors. One thing I look at is HP and FRAME SIZE. Generally, I favor buying the highest HP available in whatever FRAME SIZE fits my needs; the cost upgrade is typically less than going up in frame size, you end up with enough PTO power to run larger implements and when you are not powering PTO powered implements you have power to spare.

Rank your tasks, is mowing the main job or is box blading. Mowing requires higher PTO hp, box blading needs traction that comes with heavier weight. Will you use a snowblower or grader blade for snow? A blower on a light machine works great, a grader blade on a light machine will slip on your drive.

LMTC · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

Consider WEIGHT as well as all other specs. I believe the 7610 is around 1360#. HP is useful only so long as there is traction to apply it. During the recent 16-18" we got, our 35HP Branson (almost 4500# with loader and various weights) was outmatched for much of our clearing, solely on the basis of weight. During a typical 6" snow here I know from experience (our drive is 300' to the house, another 100' to the back of barn) that a 1400# tractor is inadequate to try to clear in one continuous pass with a grader blade. A 2200# tractor will just about do it. We are the freezing rain/sleet capital of the US here in the Ohio River valley, which means we are often clearing light snow from the top of ice. You need weight as well as HP to get the job done. You may get by with a compact, but I think a sub-compact would not serve your needs well.

Most major brands (Kubota, NH, JD, Kioti, Branson, Zetor, Mahindra and some others--avoid Chinese in my opinion) as well as the gray YM units would meet your needs in terms of reliability, etc. Get specs, look at HP vs. weight, range of gears available (I like gear models, and you want at least 3 final with at least a dual range differential--you will find many advocates for the hydrostat--I personally would let this be a deciding factor only in case of a tie on other factors), and for goodness sake sit in whatever you consider buying. If it's not reasonably comfortable, let it pass.

wayne
www.lmtcompany.com

JDGREEN4ME · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

These are in no particular order...
1. New Holland TC24
2. Kubota B7800
3. Kioti CK25
4. John Deere 4115 (This is the model I own /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif)
5.

rockyridgefarm · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

Good Opinions...

 ...will be going to an implement sale in February... 

My big suggestion is that if you are going to a equipment sale, that you carry with you good quotes from dealers on new equipment. I hear all the time about great "deals" at sales that are only a little higher than a geed deal from a dealer... Funy, how you can always get a quote that makes the used one sound cheap, but a little digging and you can often beat the price of used equipment buying new...

KiotiJohn · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

As you may have surmised, unbiased may not be exactly what you'll get here. Most people are going to recommend at least 1 model in the brand they own, as I will do here.
First, in approximately the range you mention, I'd go with the Kioti CK25 or CK30, or the LB3054XS (shuttle shift only) mostly because they have enough weight to use the HP, and many standard features that are extra on other brands.
Kubota B7510 or B7610
New Holland TC30
Various Mahindra models appear to be quite good as well.
John

Bob_Skurka · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

Just reread through all the posts on this thread. Thought I would simply try to get folks back on track because many of the tractors recommended are not within the range Matt asked for. Matt did not ask what our favorite 5 tractors are. Matt asked what our favorite 5 small tractors are that meet his criteria of 22 to 27hp if price didn't matter, were durable, and user friendly.

Matt asked for 22 to 27 hp. Several tractors in at least 3 posts are 30 or 35 hp machines. Matt has 3 acres to mow. Matt has a driveway to clear snow from. Matt is in Indiana. With the exception of north central Indiana, most of the state is a low to moderate snow state. Matt likes HST transmissions. Matt very likely has clay or clay loam soil.

I think we owe it to Matt to give him some choices based on his criteria and preferences. Many of the larger tractors mentioned are very nice machines but they do not fall within his guidelines. And/or are probably not suitable for mowing 3 acres.

The brain trust on this site can do better than we have done for Matt!

KiotiJohn · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

( Just reread through all the posts on this thread. Thought I would simply try to get folks back on track because many of the tractors recommended are not within the ranged Matt asked for. Matt did not ask what our favorite 5 tractors are. Matt asked what our favorite 5 small tractors are that meet his criteria of 22 to 27hp. )
Bob, I think each and every one of us knows what we posted, and we know what was asked. I qualified my post by saying ( First, in approximately the range you mention, ) because I don't have much experience with other tractors in the range about which he asked. I suspect that's the reason for the other posters doing the same. This small range of HP may be difficult for many to comment on, and the poster can certainly sort out, on his own, what has been posted.
Sorry, but I sometimes just take offense at your comments such as: ( The brain trust on this site can do better than we have done for Matt! ) we post our opinions based on our honest attempts to present what we think is good advice. It's not your job to second guess our opinions and make derogatory comments about how we can "do better." JUST MY OPINION. John

Bob_Skurka · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

No derogatory statement was made or implied, but I think it is fair to try to give a guy help when he asks for it. The thread had started to drift into areas where I think we would end up confusing the issue more than helping. My prior post was not in direct response to you or your post. It did have a lot to do with the fact that Matt asked for something that was not being provided so I thought I would point it out. If Matt is a newbie, then Matt might not know what hp or frame size some of these tractors have. Is a B7800 a fine tractor? How about a TC30? Yes it is. Ditto the CK30. But none of those three is as good as a mowing tractor for a fairly small yard as a smaller tractor. Further, Matt asked for things like easy to operate, it is fair to translate that into good ergonomics. The CK30 easily has better ergonomics than the old iron horse TC30, but it still doesn't fit his criteria. The B7800 is somewhere in between the TC30 and the CK30 in ergonomics, it is a much more modern design than the TC, but not as fully featured at the CK. Still it is larger than he is shopping for.

KiotiJohn · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

It's not uncommon at all for the folks on this forum to recommend more tractor than someone is looking for. It's the opinions of these posters, at times, that the poster may want to look at other options besides what he's asking about. This is no different, and if you can't see that playing hall monitor is insulting, then I'm just wasting my time. Once again, you speak of these tractors as though you've been on them, and used them, and know just how comfortable they are, when you've admitted in the past that you may have "sat" on some of them. Your opinion on what makes a good mowing tractor has been disputed by many members who don't share your opinion, and you're welcome to your thoughts, but so are the rest of us.
I happen to think that the CK30, which is only 3 HP more than he asked about, is a great machine for mowing in most areas. I know that in your area and soil conditons you feel lighter tractors are better, but, I think that by far, most people understand that lighter weight tractors make less use of the available HP than do their heavier counterparts. The difference of a few hundred pounds doesn't usually make a huge difference in rutting when the operator takes the proper precautions. As you know, some members with VERY large (up to 65HP) have posted that they mow their lawns with no rutting. Are they lying? According to you, it just can't be done! Oh well, we all have our own ideas. John

Bob_Skurka · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

John, for the record, I own 1 of the tractors I recommended. I considered and tested and negotiated for a B7610. When I was shopping, the B2410 wasn't available, however I have seen & played with them and they are superior to the B7610 in several ways. I tested the Ventrac and bought a model I did not recommend but did use the one I recommended, I also drove and compared the PowerTrac to the Ventrac on my property. I own a B2910, which is the deluxe version of the B7800 and I've actually used a TC30 on multiple occasions. So I have personal useage of many of the machines in this thread.

As for the CK30. No doubt it is a fine machine. I never said it wasn't. I still don't dispute that. But for a guy with 3 acres to mow we should really be asking if a SUB-CUT might be more suitable than a tractor that is nearly the equal to a L3130 . . . and I would never recommend that machine in this particular case either. And I never said people can't mow with 65hp machines, but I would never consider it efficient for mowing just 3 acres.

As for everyone being welcome to their thoughts, I totally agree. I never said they were not, nor did I imply it. I simply offered up the fact that the thread had strayed away from what was being asked for and I suggested we were not provided the answers that Matt was looking for. Nothing more. Nothing less.

RedDog · Dec 31, 2004

Re: What\'s your top five?

( As you know, some members with VERY large (up to 65HP) have posted that they mow their lawns with no rutting. )

Yep, that would be me! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I wanted a tractor, not a toy! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

RedDog

JerryG · Jan 1, 2005

Re: What\'s your top five?

 The brain trust on this site can do better than we have done for Matt! 

It's not your job to second guess our opinions and make derogatory comments about how we can "do better." JUST MY OPINION. John 

All that Bob was saying in the above statement was that we (this group as a whole) could do a better job at answering the questions as asked. After all, that is why this thread was post started. He knows some of the criteria that he wants and wants input on other items lying within this criteria.

JDGREEN4ME · Jan 1, 2005

Re: What\'s your top five?

The brain trust on this site can do better than we have done for Matt
Matt, my contribution to this thread is based on models I am familiar with. I know the B7800 is 3HP more than you listed but it is the model I am famiilar with and the one I researched. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(I am Bill Jones and I approve this message! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

RalphVa · Jan 1, 2005

Re: What\'s your top five?

My main problems with the "B" models by Kubota is they don't have fixed ROPS that are low enough to drive underneath normal doors, and they have horrible foot ergonomics compared to JD. So, my preferences for your needs would be the following:

1. JD 4115 (if cost is no object)
2. JD 2210 (value for hp and a good mowing machine)
3. JD 4110 (only about $2k above the 2210 but not as good for mowing via MMM, probably better using rear finish mower)
4. JD 4010 (yeah, it's lower hp, but who needs more than it has for only 400' of drieway and mowing; same as 4110 for MMM) I'd personally put this one #3 but put it here because it's lower than your minimum hp (don't know why you selected 22; some folks want to cut 6" grass down to 1" going uphill and weighing 400 # sitting like a lump; think my 4010 will do it, but why? It cuts 2 foot high grass on my neighbor's meadow without straining)

The BX or one of those TZ models may be the only other ones with ROPS low enough. Didn't like the BX ones, too little ground clearance and those awful treadle pedals.

Ralph

Dargo · Jan 1, 2005

Re: What\'s your top five?

Hey Ralph, I have a 12' door on my barn. Is a Kubota okay for me? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif You'd love it. My 5030 is parked right under a sign that says "John Deere Parking Only". The sign is an old gift from my late grandfather, so I have never taken it down; even when my tractor hasn't always been a JD. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Bird · Jan 1, 2005

Re: What\'s your top five?

( normal doors )

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifHow high is a "normal" door? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif My B2710 with R1 tires, fixed ROPS, and canopy came and went all the time through my 7' shop door.

Kiohio · Jan 1, 2005

Re: What\'s your top five?

Reddog, at over 3000 lbs the CK 25-30 is hardly a toy. OK OK yours is less of a toy than the CKs but....... A CK 25-30 will fit in a normal barn.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I prefer the DK45 as my toy of choice but it's still too big for Mr Powerstroke........we all know Mr.Cummins would go for the more power approach /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
BTW this is all tongue in cheek guys.

I would of course choose the Kioti CK25. Not purely unbiased tho /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
BUT it is very hard to choose between all the different brands/models. Just get "best" prices from your dealers, see how well you like the dealer and see which tractor "fits" you best. Compare all of the specs that "REALLY" matter to you, then make a decision. Money really should take a back seat to all other things (within reason).

KO

ThistleKop · Jan 1, 2005

Re: What\'s your top five?

Hey Bob, My handle is "Thistlekop". Don't need yours to unoffically become "Threadkop". /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tk

texastomtom · Jan 2, 2005

Re: What\'s your top five?

My garage doors at the house are 7' high
my tractor wont fit with rops up /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

fortunately my barn has 9' door ( or thereabouts)