What tractor do I need?

[mtngrouse]

I just bought a 70 acre farm that has a 54 acre field. I also have a 6' and a 7' brush hog that I will use to clean up another 8-10 acres. I will also be building a house on this property next year so I think I'll need a back hoe for power and water lines and a FEL for spreading road gravel. I would also like to bail hay next year. I have found a 5205 (4wd) with 200 hours on it at my local JD dealer, with a loader for $22,500 (I think it has the cheap transmission, not too sure). Is this the right tractor for me and is it priced well? I don't expect to do commercial loader work with alot of backing up. I work in the mining industry and I can rent any big equipment I need and they will deliver it to my house so I'm thinking that the synchro tranny is just extra money. Any suggestions will be welcome. Great site too! Also, are round bales easier to sell than square and does this affect tractor size?

 

[RWolf]

Well first off welcome. To your needs. You didn't mention in what shape your fields are in so I will make some assumptions. I would guess that the fields haven't had anything done to them in years. Seeing as you can get the larger equipment readily I would forgo the backhoe for now. At about $6500 average street price you can use that for other impliments or a larger tractor. You can compare my by-line as to what I'm using on a 25ac place. You didn't mention where you're at so the decision for 4wd or 2wd can be acedemic. Now to more specifics using the 7' mower will require 35PTO HP for average cutting. Plow will require about 15HP per share at about 8" depth (depends on soil). The style of bales (square,round,LG. sq.) will have their own needs. Small squares can be done with about 40+ PTO HP (depends on make and type of hay). Large rounds will require about 60 - 70 PTO HP. Now these are pretty much "minimums". Now factor in time. How much time do you want to spend on a task. So to answer your question in general you should probably look at a machine in the 70+ HP class (give or take) and you will have a machine that can do the majority of tasks you need. The type of transmission you get will depend on the year you purchase (used) or your preferences. My tractor has a shuttle shift which I really like. I'm not a big fan of HST for what I use a tractor for. I can move hay around all day and not get worn out shifting. If I'm carful and don't have too high of an rpm set I can go from forward to reverse "without" using the clutch.

I hope that answers some of your questions.
Good luck.

 

[RollingsFarms]

I just bought a 70 acre farm that has a 54 acre field. I also have a 6' and a 7' brush hog that I will use to clean up another 8-10 acres. I will also be building a house on this property next year so I think I'll need a back hoe for power and water lines and a FEL for spreading road gravel. I would also like to bail hay next year. I have found a 5205 (4wd) with 200 hours on it at my local JD dealer, with a loader for $22,500 (I think it has the cheap transmission, not too sure). Is this the right tractor for me and is it priced well? I don't expect to do commercial loader work with alot of backing up. I work in the mining industry and I can rent any big equipment I need and they will deliver it to my house so I'm thinking that the synchro tranny is just extra money. Any suggestions will be welcome. Great site too! Also, are round bales easier to sell than square and does this affect tractor size?

you got a really detailed answer above, so i will just comment on the 5205 you mentioned. the 5105/5205 came with an 8x4 syncreverser tranny. this means the reverse and 2nd gear are syncronized and you will have to clutch to change the gears. i would say that the price of $22,500 is good for that tractor and loader, assuming thats 4wd. incase you werent aware, the 5205 is 56 engine hp and about 50 pto. it's a stout machine. i have a 5203 (the replacement for the 5205). it has 4wd, 9x3 sync shuttle, etc. it's a pretty heavy machine weighing in at 5,044 lbs. that's without a loader or filled tires.

as for the hay bales go. around here alot of people produce square bales due to the horse industry taking off in the past few years. round bales are still made, but there arent too many cattle farmers left due to the local government being morons with their crazy taxes(that's another story i wont get into though). if you're just going to be haying the 54 acre field, i think you would get alot more square bales out of it then you would round ones. if you decide to go the way of producing square bales, go get that 5205, as that is all you would need. if you're considering round bales, youre going to need 70hp minimum.

 

[AKfish]

I just bought a 70 acre farm that has a 54 acre field. I also have a 6' and a 7' brush hog that I will use to clean up another 8-10 acres. FEL for spreading road gravel. I would also like to bail hay next year. I can rent any big equipment I need. Also, are round bales easier to sell than square and does this affect tractor size?

Congratulations on your new farm! And a hearty welcome to TBN.

The 5205 will certainly handle everything you have in mind; brush hogs and FEL use. It will run a small square baler and a disc mower for hay, too. A large MoCo and big baler - no. Some have mentioned that the 8x4 tranny doesn't have the best gear spread for optimal baler use - at times too slow or too fast. The 9x3 would be better or the 12x12 (24x24) on the 25 series even better.

Rent for the hoe uses. Sounds like you've got a better situation with that anyway; then spending the extra $$.

More money in small squares. Horse owner's (me) and small farmers (goats, sheep and a couple of cows) like the ease of feeding the small squares and they're easier to store and transport, too.

Good luck.

AKfish

 

[Z-Michigan]

I have a JD 5105 that I use on 20 acres for a mix of farm and property maintenance tasks. It is an excellent, solid basic farm tractor. It is not a lot of fun for loader work or mowing in tight areas, but for pulling a plow or disk, or mowing large fields, it's great. Traction and pulling power is terrific - to the point of easily damaging implements rated for more power than it has. If you get the 5205, I recommend Cat 2 implements for anything ground-engaging.

Do you have farming experience? Have you baled hay, or priced the cost of serviceable hay equipment? It's not cheap, and it requires knowledge to bale hay that doesn't mold. If you can hay all 54ac and have a good market nearby it may be worthwhile, but consider the costs and hassle before you jump in. Does your job have flexible hours? If not, will you be happy doing 6 hours of hay work after you get home from working 8 hours at your regular job? Hay needs to be done when the weather and conditions are right. We bought our 5105 with hay equipment in mind, but realized within 6 months that it didn't make sense for us to invest in the equipment. But we only have 10ac of hay fields. We pay local farmers to do the haying, which works OK but isn't ideal either since we're always last priority and therefore may miss cuttings or get less than ideal quality.

As noted, generally horse people and hobbyists want squares because they can be moved without equipment. We use rounds so we don't have to stack squares by hand, but it limits who we can sell our hay to. Around here, a serviceable round baler will cost $10k or more, while you might get a decent square baler for $2-3k, even less if you're mechanically inclined and willing to gamble a bit. A simple mower like a sickle bar may work if you're doing grass hay only, or in a really dry climate, but if you're doing alfalfa in the midwest or southeast you'll need a mower-conditioner, which is also quite expensive.

 

[mtngrouse]

Wow, I really feel like a moron now. You guys seem to know your stuff. I'm in West Virginia and the land is basically flat to rolling ridgetop. All 54 acres have been used for horse hay and only about 8-10 acres needs any work at all. It had 4 to 6 horses on it all summer and was still cut two times. Over the winter the guy who leased the pasture put about 40 horses on it and kept them fed with the round bales he pulled off during the summer.

I don't like having that many horses as they have been hard on the ground in places. Needless to say I instructed him to smooth the ruts that he made with his tractor caused by repeatedly traveling over the same roadway.

As far as haying goes, most people near me are cattle farmers and they seem to use the round bales. But.....there is a local stable that seems interested in the hay and they prefer square bales.

I am skilled on heavy equipment, but I've only run a tractor about 5 times (my father-in-law has a 60 Hp 2wd New Holland). If I wait a year to buy hay making equipment then I can get pretty much anything I want.

The 5205 belonged to my banker and he only used it to spread a little gravel and to plow his driveway. He also had all servicing done by the local dealer and he is a trustworthy guy.

 

[mtngrouse]

I also took soil samples and sent them to WV University (Go Mountaineers) for lime application information. During last summer the clover was so thick you had to kick your feet to walk in it.

 

[mtngrouse]

The thoughts of picking up square bales makes my back already ache. Are small round bales an economical option?

Again, thanks very much for the info. I'd also like to stay with John Deere green. Maybe I'm just a sucker for the marketing!

 

[VA Rebel]

You'll be good with that tractor to make hay, round or square. If you go with a smaller round (4x4) some horse folks will be fine with it, they'll just peel a few flakes off with a pitch fork. It's actually a little easier that way. You might want to take another soil sample and send it to down to Va Tech for a more accurate analysis than you're gonna get from Morgantown.

 

[Z-Michigan]

You'll be good with that tractor to make hay, round or square. If you go with a smaller round (4x4) some horse folks will be fine with it, they'll just peel a few flakes off with a pitch fork. It's actually a little easier that way.

We use 4x5 round bales for our horse, the same way you describe, and we would never go back to square bales. We also sell some round bales, mostly to horse owners, but your buyers are limited to people with a full-size pickup or a trailer, and either a tractor at home or a willingness to manhandle round bales. It's actually not hard for one or two adults to move them by hand, but a lot of people wouldn't even try.

You might want to take another soil sample and send it to down to Va Tech for a more accurate analysis than you're gonna get from Morgantown.

This is ribbing, right? Soil testing is not rocket science, there's no need to send a sample to a different lab. The biggest variable is how you collect the soil, not how the lab tests it.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Wow, I really feel like a moron now. You guys seem to know your stuff. I'm in West Virginia and the land is basically flat to rolling ridgetop. All 54 acres have been used for horse hay and only about 8-10 acres needs any work at all. It had 4 to 6 horses on it all summer and was still cut two times. Over the winter the guy who leased the pasture put about 40 horses on it and kept them fed with the round bales he pulled off during the summer.

I don't like having that many horses as they have been hard on the ground in places. Needless to say I instructed him to smooth the ruts that he made with his tractor caused by repeatedly traveling over the same roadway.

From all you describe I'll bet the field now has some soil compaction. What is the major plant - grass, clover, or alfalfa? Alfalfa has deep roots that tend to minimize compaction, but the others don't, and with that number of horses over winter it's likely compacted some. Chat with a good farmer, or an ag extension agent, to determine if there is actual compaction. Or take a shovel and start digging - the compaction layer, if there is one, is most likely 6" to 12" deep.

If the soil is compacted, your production will be limited. It may still be just fine, but can be greatly improved by removing the compaction. However, all that work is for nothing if the soil doesn't need it. That's why you should investigate, and have someone with farming experience look at it if possible.

Also, FYI, a hayfield that's used and is intended to be in good production will need fertilizing 1-2 times a year. You can do this with a tractor and a spreader rented from the local co-op or feed mill.

As far as haying goes, most people near me are cattle farmers and they seem to use the round bales. But.....there is a local stable that seems interested in the hay and they prefer square bales.

I would want a pretty firm commitment to make my decision based on this. Selling squares, you either need to collect and stack them, or sell them out of the field before it rains. Are you in a position to hire some strong teens to stack if you need to? Do you have a barn to store the hay in between baling and selling?

I am skilled on heavy equipment, but I've only run a tractor about 5 times (my father-in-law has a 60 Hp 2wd New Holland). If I wait a year to buy hay making equipment then I can get pretty much anything I want.

The 5205 belonged to my banker and he only used it to spread a little gravel and to plow his driveway. He also had all servicing done by the local dealer and he is a trustworthy guy.

It should be in essentially new condition if that's how it's been treated. They are good solid tractors and I imagine they will run for over 5000 hours, probably well over, if cared for. If you like it and are thinking mostly fieldwork and mowing, it may be a good option for you.

 

[jgrreed]

The thoughts of picking up square bales makes my back already ache. Are small round bales an economical option?

Don't know who makes them anymore, but we used to have what my Grandpa called a 'stooker'. It would stack 6 bales in a nice tight triangle that was supposed to shed rain, and makes for a lot less stopping and starting while collecting the bales. I just google'd them and there was a bunch for sale in auctions. IMO that'd be by far the best value of cost vs. time saved. If you have the cash grab a NH bale wagon, but that may be a bit of overkill.

-Jer.

 

[mtngrouse]

Thanks for the info. I would agree there has been some compaction and I'll have the extension agent come out and give me a few pointers.

I also miss playing Virginia Tech in football - it was an outstanding rivalry and they were always a great team to play. I'm in Southern WV and the local banter was worth it every year.

The field appears to be a mix of grass and clover. I do have a large barn that was for dairy cows. The farm used to be a dairy many years ago. Since the dairy left, the ponds were reworked (cows are hard on them) and it now looks quite pretty. The only problem with the barn is it is very low inside due to the second story. I plan on renting a concrete saw and cutting the backside out to install two large garage doors. Then I'll take a portion of the second story out from the interior in order to get the tractor put inside.

If not for the vertical clearance issues, the barn could hold three tour buses easily. The entire upstairs was for hay storage and you could play basketball up there!

Luckily the side of the barn has a canopy extended that will house a tractor and all the implements quite easily.

 

[JohnDeere4300]

All the ones that have posted about a tractor gave good information.

On the soil test, your local extension agent should be fine.

About the hay, in my area square bales sell faster than round bales, most people are not setup with a building for round bales, and people
that have goats, horses, ponies__etc... would rather have square bales.

When we bale hay and want to sell some, we let people come in the
field and load their own, other people around me that bales hay may have a
few people that wants round bales, just for cattle.

I see where people that use round balers usually have dozens of round bales pushed to the edge of the field out in the rain.

If you decided to go with the round bales, you would need a large
area to keep it dry, or buy a hay wrap.

And a hay wrap that mounts on your 3pt. hitch costs around $4000 so it really depends what you could sell in your area.

*Do you live close to Beckely WV.?

 

[farmboy12]

I would say square bales. Easier to sell, and easier to store, and better size for you tractor, and you can tow a bale wagon behind it, then just put the wagon directly under shelter. And, if you ever decide to get a few hobby animals, you'll choose square.

As for the tractor, as much as I love Deere, it may be worth it to go check out some other brands as well. Whatever tractor suits your needs best is the tractor you should get.


Kyle

 

[Egon]

Grandpa called a 'stooker'.

I can recall those. My back just naturally started aching just seeing one. fortunately I missed the opportunity of standing on one. Haven't seen one for years.

 

[mtngrouse]

The farm is within 20 minutes of Beckley and I work in the Beckley area.

Storing bales isn't a problem, the barn is plenty big enough for more than I can bale.

 

[jenkinsph]

Thanks for the info. I would agree there has been some compaction and I'll have the extension agent come out and give me a few pointers.

I also miss playing Virginia Tech in football - it was an outstanding rivalry and they were always a great team to play. I'm in Southern WV and the local banter was worth it every year.

The field appears to be a mix of grass and clover. I do have a large barn that was for dairy cows. The farm used to be a dairy many years ago. Since the dairy left, the ponds were reworked (cows are hard on them) and it now looks quite pretty. The only problem with the barn is it is very low inside due to the second story. I plan on renting a concrete saw and cutting the backside out to install two large garage doors. Then I'll take a portion of the second story out from the interior in order to get the tractor put inside.

If not for the vertical clearance issues, the barn could hold three tour buses easily. The entire upstairs was for hay storage and you could play basketball up there!

Luckily the side of the barn has a canopy extended that will house a tractor and all the implements quite easily.

I would be cautious about storing my new equipment in a hay barn filled with fresh hay. The risk of fire is too great.



Steve

 

[mtngrouse]

Good point on not putting equipment in barn with hay. Like I mentioned earlier the barn has a large canopy that I can put the tractor and implements in. It's a cinderblock barn, so the probability of a fire engulfing the whole barn is minimal. It also has poured concrete interior walls in portions of it.

Previous owner was really into dairy cows at one time.

I called a friend who is into farming yesterday and he gave me the number of a dealer in virginia to call. The dealer looked up the tractor and gave me the price from their book. He said anything under $24000 was a good deal.

Now I just have to go and convince my wife.

 

[farmboy12]

Good point on not putting equipment in barn with hay. Like I mentioned earlier the barn has a large canopy that I can put the tractor and implements in. It's a cinderblock barn, so the probability of a fire engulfing the whole barn is minimal. It also has poured concrete interior walls in portions of it.

Previous owner was really into dairy cows at one time.

I called a friend who is into farming yesterday and he gave me the number of a dealer in virginia to call. The dealer looked up the tractor and gave me the price from their book. He said anything under $24000 was a good deal.

Now I just have to go and convince my wife.

A good thing to do, buy your wife something nice. Something REALLY nice. Give it to her just before you buy your tractor, then she'll be distracted by the gift, and won't notice your new toy...


Kyle