Posthole Digger What PTO HP am i looking for?

[ajwren]

I have a question also about PTO HP requirements for a Tractor i want to buy (been looking for 6 months!).
I have a new Property (4.5 acres) that basically requires (at some time in the future) to be Fenced off (meaning lots of post hole digging), and am considering these Tractors to do the Job. but mainly it will be used to do Field Mowing and such but I dont want to buy something that may be underpowered (learned from previous posts).
I am looking at a JD 2520 (FEL(300CX?),JD 46 BH, 350 HRS for $17500) or a JD 3720 (FEL(300CX?) 150HRS, dont know price yet). I know the 3720 has at least 20 more HP at the PTO, but is it too much? and would the 2520 be too little? I dont want to be driving a monster around (looking like an idiot, lol) for mostly mowing... but i dont want to find out later that i should have bought bigger. Anyone got any ideas on what PTO HP may get the job done? or should i look for something in between, a (JD,Kubota) 30/35HP Tractor with 26/30 PTO HP? The ground, that i know so far is not bad, pretty earthy and some smaller rocks.
Thanks in advance...
ajwren

 

[luckyme2010]

always get bigger than what you think you need i made that mistake by getting a 35 horse which it did everything i wanted it to but then i started seeing thing that needed to be done and didnt have quiet enough to do it without getting in a bind so i sold that one and got a 55 horse no problems now if it were me i would go with atleast a 35 hp i believe that would get anything done on 4.5 acres a 35 hp isnt a monster and it isnt a tinymight its a good middle size it will handle a 5 foot bushhog a 2 row 18" bottom plow "if you wanna garden" i used a 6' heavy duty disc no problems but also mine are mahindra tractors so im not sure how the others handle those implements but for me the 35 hp would be my pick so i hope this helps

 

[TripleR]

Look up the implements you intend to use and they will give you the HP ratings.

Some post hole diggers are PTO driven and some are hydraulically driven.

 

[leonz]

As Triple R has said so well you need to look at the horsepower required and

then start looking at the market rather than simply cruising the timber to find

the stumpage(tractor you want).


The thing about post hole diggers is they are entirely dependent on the

machine used to operate them and the amount of power available.


Stating that-The issue of implement utility and total use comes to mind in

several avenues. Let us assume you are fencing for the notorious fence

jumpers AKA Shropshires.



Assuming you are installing wooden 12 footers for 8 foot of perimiter woven

wire fence for the the little trouble makers -they will clear six foot BTW.


Speed and power are key; a tree planting auger will drill faster in ground than

a tube auger period and you want a tree auger for everything unless you

KNOW YOU ARE IN SAND PERIOD!!!!!!!!!


Back filling is faster than digging anyway so no worries about the dirt wad

left by the tree auger.


Second option is a rented back hoe which will be even faster than the tree auger and you can always backfill so thats not an issue period.


The corner posts and braces are a primary concern and typically are deeper

and or cemented with brace posts as well.


Asssuming the 4.5 acres is 3,800 feet in linear distance and you want 8 foot

woven wire for the lttle troublemakers, you will need 760 12-foot posts at a

minimum not counting water crossings of fence line and dips affecting the

fence string or lacing and resetting the woven wire at thse locations.


You will need at least 16 mid section braces and gates for the fence line.


The amount of time and work would be better spent finding a fencing

contractor that specialises in livestock fence installation as they can do it

faster with fence winders and high power drills to set posts and anchors

faster than most available PTO augers or hydraulic 3 point augers.


They will come in and stretch the woven wire with thier fence rollers then

staple the fence to the wire and move on to the 200 foot roll and continue.


Once the fence is in its in and done and done and the work is guaranteed.

They can stretch 200 foot rolls of fence much faster and easier with the fence

dispencers and rollers than can be done with 25 foot sections using stretcher

panel plates and cable come alongs. Been there done that lived with bad

fences and no money to fix them.


leon

 

[bp fick]

The only problem with the "always go bigger" argument is that sometimes, once the initial project is done, you can be left with a machine too large for daily maintenance of the property. Storage issues. Too heavy to cross yards. Too large as to be nimble in tight quarters. All these things need to be weighed out. Needing to sell in a year because it is now too large is just as costly, perhaps more so, than the cost of having bought too small. The tasks determines the tractor. Period.

Frankly, a JD 2520 is a really sweet machine, but is it right for you? TripleR is absolutely right. Think in reverse, if you will. Start with the jobs, think of the implements and THEN ask, "will this tractor operate these implements"? If yes, you're golden. If not, what size tractor will operate them? That's the process. Have fun deciding!

 

[ajwren]

Thanks everyone for the input. Really.

Dont know where to Start. Maybe Jeonz's idea of getting Professionals to do it could save me alot of time and headache. But having said that, where's the fun in that... I suppose i am asking a retorical question here. Why buy a Tractor if it's not going to do the work you need (would like) it to do?
I have lots of time and there is no TV at the property. So i gotta be doing something right..

Tractor will be doing 90% mowing
We have 380ft of river front on one side and a mountain bordering another side, so in fact there are only two sides to be fenced off.
I have several stumps that i would like to clear out (over time), just chip away at them.
I would like to move River rock up on to the property for a fireplace and some wall/dam construction (river is low bank and can overrun up near the house)
I would like to grab timber that has floated down river and rake and clean up flood area every summer
Leveling Ground and upkeep on driveway

I am kinda leaning towards the 2620 for some reason. I think the 3720 maybe to much machine somehow, overkill for the 5 acres.
Maybe i should look for something in the Middle the 30/35HP range.
I am also wondering what/why i would go Hydraulic insted of PTO driven? And, (not done yet) How do you like your Mahindra Tractor, i have also been looking into those..?
Thanks again everyone
Ajwren

 

[TripleR]

OK, sorry, but I grew up on a farm raised cattle, hogs, goats and Lord knows what else and the words "fun" and "fence building", should NEVER be used in the same sentence.

Leon has it right on this one, I'd do just about anything to get out of building another fence; gotta go lie down, I'm feeling kind of dizzy.

 

[beppington]

While it's a tiring, sweaty job, especially when it was 95 out all the time, I've been enjoying putting up my new fence. Pretty satisfying seeing it come together.

Of course I'm typing this from a comfy-chair, air-conditioned office.

 

[TripleR]

While it's a tiring, sweaty job, especially when it was 95 out all the time, I've been enjoying putting up my new fence. Pretty satisfying seeing it come together.

Of course I'm typing this from a comfy-chair, air-conditioned office.

Man, it's a shame you don't live closer, have I got a deal for you.:laughing:

 

[Chilly807]

We're on 10 acres, building horse fence. I don't know what you're planning on fencing, but the job doesn't vary a lot unless you're fencing elephants.

Almost any tractor will run a PTO driven post hole auger power-wise, you do need to consider whether the frame is big enough to give you enough height to keep the auger tip off the ground.

We have a Kubota 3400 which runs a PHD, 5 foot brush mower, 6 foot rear blade, etc. No problems so far.

The auger that came with ours was a 9 inch, good for fence posts up to about 6-7 inch diameter or 4x4 posts, but for 6x6 a 12 inch will be on the wish list. Not so much for getting the post in the hole, but for wiggle room to get it vertical and where we want it. Bear in mind, not all holes are created either vertical or exactly where you want them, contrary to popular belief and best intentions.

We planned for some light logging, snow removal, garden plowing, and moving small round bales if necessary over time. If you're buying a loader, pay close attention to how much it can lift. The Kubota L2800/L3400/L3700 series is notoriously "weak" when it comes to lift capacity. Aside from the 3 point roughness, it's their Achilles heel.

The trouble with the small tractors, and mine is on the edge of "small" by farm standards, is not so much power as it is weight. You'll run out of traction, ground clearance, and weight to handle implements long before the engine is overburdened. The one exception to that might be mowing, it puts a decent load on the engine.

If you're planning on mowing a lawn with it, the 3400 size is simply too big to get around stuff without tearing the lawn to shreds. The 3720 is the same story, in fact the two are comparable performance wise.

My philosophy is that I have the Kubota to do small-farm chores, and it does them well, I got the size perfect for what we're doing. If I need to mow the lawn, then I need to buy a lawn tractor for that purpose. Come to think of it, I really DO need a ride-on mower... the two push mowers are falling out of favour with both the wife and I.

If you have doubts, go a little bigger as long as it will fit into whatever shelter you have, and can get around the property. Acreage is a poor way to judge how much machine you need, the job it has to do and the implements you're going to need is the best yardstick for size and power.

Sean

 

[beppington]

Man, it's a shame you don't live closer, have I got a deal for you.:laughing:

Hey now, I said I've been enjoying putting up MY new fence! :laughing:

 

[sandman2234]

Doing somebody else's fence is never as rewarding, though usually doesn't hurt the bank account nearly as much!!
David from jax

 

[TripleR]

Hey now, I said I've been enjoying putting up MY new fence! :laughing:

Hey, just trying to share the joy.:laughing:

We got rid of all of our livestock and the only fences we have now are decorative. Well, we do have some property fences, but we can't get to most of it and they are and have been grown up since before we bought our property, so we aren't going to fool with them as they are in woods and some you can't really even get to anymore. In the hills, erosion can sometimes leave you with a fence suspended in mid air with posts hanging from it.

 

[luckyme2010]

Thanks everyone for the input. Really.

Dont know where to Start. Maybe Jeonz's idea of getting Professionals to do it could save me alot of time and headache. But having said that, where's the fun in that... I suppose i am asking a retorical question here. Why buy a Tractor if it's not going to do the work you need (would like) it to do?
I have lots of time and there is no TV at the property. So i gotta be doing something right..

Tractor will be doing 90% mowing
We have 380ft of river front on one side and a mountain bordering another side, so in fact there are only two sides to be fenced off.
I have several stumps that i would like to clear out (over time), just chip away at them.
I would like to move River rock up on to the property for a fireplace and some wall/dam construction (river is low bank and can overrun up near the house)
I would like to grab timber that has floated down river and rake and clean up flood area every summer
Leveling Ground and upkeep on driveway

I am kinda leaning towards the 2620 for some reason. I think the 3720 maybe to much machine somehow, overkill for the 5 acres.
Maybe i should look for something in the Middle the 30/35HP range.
I am also wondering what/why i would go Hydraulic insted of PTO driven? And, (not done yet) How do you like your Mahindra Tractor, i have also been looking into those..?
Thanks again everyone
Ajwren

i gotta say i love my mahindra but thats because thats what ive used for the past 10 years or so not to many bells and whistles as other tractors but being and electrcian by trade i can tell you things with digital screens dont like moisture and dirt but its all about what your comfortable driving and you feel safe on thats one reason i like the mahindra they have more metal than plastic not saying some of them dont have plastic because they do they are heavier built have a higher lift capacity go to mahindrausa.com and you can select a tractor and it has comparisons to other tractors pretty informative

 

[foggy1111]

I am a big believer in looking at the implements you want to operate. So....do you want 4 foot, 5 or 6 foot stuff? Big basic question.

Usually the 4 footers are for Sub CUT's and are of special (smaller) sized frames and a limited number of used machines are out there. The SCUT's are often in a special class when it comes to implement fit...and the implements run a bit more in some cases. The five foot implements are the most plentiful and fit "normal" CUT frame sizes and because they are so popular are widely available, mass produced and low cost. You can also find LOTS of used stuff here. (you can tell I am biased to 5 foot stuff.)

Six foot implements cost a bit more....but you can cover a lot of ground with em. Not a bad choice if you have big work to do. Moderate amounts of used stuff available. Bigger tractors and HP requirements for sixers and over.

HP requirements are about 5 PTO HP per foot of implement. A few extra HP doesn't hurt if you do LOTS of PTO work with mowers and tillers etc.

Personally, I like the 30 HP tractor class with 25+ PTO HP to power five foot mowers and tillers. I like the "standard" size implements and the ability to buy, sell or trade implements according to my needs. I like light, nimble tractors that get around in the woods....yet have some grunt to lift and get the job done. I like tractors that are well supported with parts and service in my area....and something easy to trade again if my needs change. I like my 3320 JD...so far. :thumbsup:

A SCUT is good for lawn care....and more IMO. Think of it as a "crossover" ??

OH...and any tractor can run a post hole digger....but the SCUTS take a special size....just so you know.

 

[gwjd]

you mentioned flood clean up you never know what that water is going to leave behind. i think that 4x4 and ground clearance are an issue, you might have to drive in some serious stuff one day, build an emergency levee...

 

[ajwren]

I am a big believer in looking at the implements you want to operate. So....do you want 4 foot, 5 or 6 foot stuff? Big basic question.

Usually the 4 footers are for Sub CUT's and are of special (smaller) sized frames and a limited number of used machines are out there. The SCUT's are often in a special class when it comes to implement fit...and the implements run a bit more in some cases. The five foot implements are the most plentiful and fit "normal" CUT frame sizes and because they are so popular are widely available, mass produced and low cost. You can also find LOTS of used stuff here. (you can tell I am biased to 5 foot stuff.)

Six foot implements cost a bit more....but you can cover a lot of ground with em. Not a bad choice if you have big work to do. Moderate amounts of used stuff available. Bigger tractors and HP requirements for sixers and over.

HP requirements are about 5 PTO HP per foot of implement. A few extra HP doesn't hurt if you do LOTS of PTO work with mowers and tillers etc.

Personally, I like the 30 HP tractor class with 25+ PTO HP to power five foot mowers and tillers. I like the "standard" size implements and the ability to buy, sell or trade implements according to my needs. I like light, nimble tractors that get around in the woods....yet have some grunt to lift and get the job done. I like tractors that are well supported with parts and service in my area....and something easy to trade again if my needs change. I like my 3320 JD...so far. :thumbsup:

A SCUT is good for lawn care....and more IMO. Think of it as a "crossover" ??

OH...and any tractor can run a post hole digger....but the SCUTS take a special size....just so you know.

Thanks again for the reply (everyone). Very useful and informative all mround, especially the PTO HP(per foot) equation that Foggy1111 left us. But having said that, I am not sure exactly how one measeres the "Length" of Implement? I suppose it means the Heigth of the Implement when attached to the 3 Point (out of the ground)? or is it depth into ground that it goes...? a little confused..
Thanks
ajwren

 

[twarr1]

From Iowa State University:

The horsepower needed to pull a certain implement depends on the width of the implement, the ground speed, draft requirement, and soil condition. The general formula for estimating the required horsepower measured at the power take-off (PTO) is:

PTO hp = width (feet) x speed (mph)
x draft (lb./ft.) x soil factor / 375

See the attachment for draft table

 

[Chilly807]

Thanks again for the reply (everyone). Very useful and informative all mround, especially the PTO HP(per foot) equation that Foggy1111 left us. But having said that, I am not sure exactly how one measeres the "Length" of Implement? I suppose it means the Heigth of the Implement when attached to the 3 Point (out of the ground)? or is it depth into ground that it goes...? a little confused..
Thanks
ajwren

He's right on the money for most of us that run 30-35 hp tractors, usually in the compact or what I call "small to medium" farm tractor category. Historically, these were Ford 8 or 9N, Massey 135, IH/Case 385, etc. Today you're looking at New Holland TH30 (I think I have that right) Kubota 2800/3400/3700, Deere 3032 or 3038, etc. There are more for each manufacturer, some with more features, some with less.

The 5 hp/ft rule is primarily for rotary cutters and mowers, it's a fairly consistent and heavy load mowing heavy grass and weeds. Other implements such as a rear blade, box blade etc vary a bit in hp demands depending on what you're doing with them at the time. Your local dealer is one of the best resources as to what each machine is capable of.

I have a 5 foot rotary cutter (bush hog type), a 9 inch post hole auger, a 6 foot back blade, and a 12 inch two bottom plow so far, with other similar sized stuff on the wish list as the opportunity presents itself. You'll get a feel for what your tractor can and can't do once you have it, therefore good advice is critical to getting you in the right tractor to begin with.

Tell your dealer what you want to do with it, and how fast you want to get those jobs done. A good example is mowing a 15 acre field with a rotary cutter. I can tell you from experience that the field I mow of that size takes me 7 hours, give or take a half hour. HP isn't the limiting factor, field roughness is however. I can mow it faster, but I'll need the seat belt to stay on the tractor, and it bounces the living daylights out of everything. Faster ground speed makes for a less than perfect job too, same as running behind a lawn mower.

You could mow the same field with a 4 foot mower behind a B or BX Kubota or a 2305 Deere, or any smaller tractor as well. It would take you longer, maybe 25-30% longer. A larger machine with a six foot mower would take 20-25% less time, and be more comfortable to boot.

So if you have all day, some jobs can be done with a smaller machine, others simply can't depending on the hp or weight requirements.

Talk to your dealer as well as us, if he has the idea you may buy new, he'll tell you what each machine can do. If you arrive at a conclusion as to the machine size you need, where you buy it is your choice. My dealer was a great help, his first question was "Great, glad you're looking at Kubota, now... what do you want to do with it?"

Sean

 

[Agrantina]

I drove the small compact tractors with the same HP as mine but after reading alot and actually driving a L3400 pulling a box blade I understood what weight of a tractor actual means. HP and a light tractor is about the same thing as being under HP on a tractor. But having the correct balance of weight as power is the key when pulling..Yes you can add weight just like you can slow down cutting or have a 4ft cutter.. So the 80/20 rule is correct. Buy a tractor for 80% of what you do and borrow a neighbors tractor that donesn't read TBN and buys one to big

AndyG