What lessons do we teach our children?

[MossRoad]

I look at it this way... in pure strength contests, I let up on them because it ain't no fun for a 210 pound 6' tall guy to out muscle a 70 pound toothpick girl or her faithful sidekick little sister. I push them to their limits while having fun. In endurance contests, the little ones have the advantage over me. The 12 year old can outshoot me in a basketball game like PIG or HORSE from anywhere inside the key. Outside the key, the advantage goes to me because of strength. She just can't throw the ball that far yet. In softball, the 12 year old girls can strike me out, throw me out at the bases and run the bases faster. However, I have to be careful swinging, because should I get ahold of one, I could really hurt them with a line shot. It takes good judgment in strength contests with kids and adults.

In mental contests, however, it is important to learn, so I beat them as often as possible. I then show them how I beat them and how they could defend or attack. For instance, I never let my kids win in Chess. I don't have to, they'll beat me on their own. The 12 year old is pretty good. She gets me 2 out of 10. The 7 year old managed to stale mate me the second game she ever played. I'm doomed. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

To recap...
Strength contest: use resistance, but give when pushed.
Endurance contest: just try to outlast them and good luck, buddy.
Mental contest: use, wait... what were we talking about? Oh yeah. Try to teach them while they're young cause your brain cells are dying fast and time's running out. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MossRoad]

Awards ceremonies... that's another topic. Some kids will never be 1st place at anything in contests. That is just a fact of life. Teaching them how to handle that is the hard part. Teaching good mental attitude is the cake. 1st place is just icing on that cake.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Moss . . . is it safe to say that you make them TRY? And that the message that they are learning is that they have to try?


If that is what you are saying then I totally agree with you. What several of the parents were doing last night was not even doing that. The kids had more skill than most of the parents, they had more stamina than ALL of the parents, but less strength. So parents could kick it farther, but the kids often beat the parents to the ball and got it first. The thing that was griping me (and the lovely Mrs_Bob too) were the parents who obviously & intentially didn't try because they wanted the kids to win and that created the situation where the kids began to complain!

You have to figure something is wrong when the kids are complaining!

 

[GeneD14]

I think that it is important to teach our children the formula for winning. After all life is a game of "survival of the fittest". Just as important as winning is: being able to have fun and be joyful is important. Ideally I hope my boy wins a Super Bowl or a World Series, but most of all I want him to be happy and enjoy life.
I do think that we need urge our kids to give it their best effort and mildy push our kids to win. That doesn't mean: yelling and cursing at a Little League game.
I believe that 1st, 2nd, and 3rd should get a ribbon. Participants should get recognition for their effort. Verbal recognition or if it is a ribbon it shouldn't be the same as the top 3. We don't want to give any incentive to loose. Or to reinforce that giving 50% effort deserves the same recognition as 100% effort.
When they loose also compliment them on what they did right and focus on our plan for next time. We all loose sometime and if we don't learn from our mistakes we will repeat them.

 

[GeneD14]

Although the movie was average "Kicking and Screaming" is one that I would recommend for any parent to see who's kids are in sports. It's a comedy but there is an important lesson about winning.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> I believe that 1st, 2nd, and 3rd should get a ribbon. Participants should get recognition for their effort. Verbal recognition or if it is a ribbon it shouldn't be the same as the top 3.

We don't want to give any incentive to loose. Or to reinforce that giving 50% effort deserves the same recognition as 100% effort.

When they loose also compliment them on what they did right and focus on our plan for next time. We all loose sometime and if we don't learn from our mistakes we will repeat them. </font>


EXACTLY

 

[dmccarty]

Bob,

If it is a physical contest of some kind I push so that the kids have to make an effort. My kids can't outrun me but I let them win, just barely and they really have to run if they want to beat me to the school, truck, door, whatever. But they have to go all out to win.

My oldest just had her last soccer day. They are 4 and 5 year olds on the teams. I saw the same thing with the parents, some wanting to win and others just letting the kids win. At the end of the season, the kids all get trophies. I guess this is ok at their age but in a few more years this had better stop. But I won't be surpised if it does not given the idea that "everyone is a winner" mentality.

Here at work the pay raises this year will be bad. The scuttlebutt is that most people won't get raises and those that do won't get much. Given that we are ranked by performance there most certainly are "winners" and "looser". One may complain, rightly so, on HOW the rankings are done but never the less some people will get money and some wont.

Learning to deal with loosing is just as important as winning. No one wins all the time. Life will provide everyone with lots of challenges that we don't "win". Kids need to be taught how to deal with these events. Its life.

Later,
Dan

 

[OkeeDon]

Interesting digression regarding the ribbons. Some kids will win and get a ribbon. Some will lose and not get a ribbon. Some who lose will keep on trying until they win. Some who lose will keep on playing because they enjoy it. Some who lose will give up because they never win.

Exactly the same as adults...

...it's the parents who can't accept that their kid is less than perfect.

The problem, as I see it, is that those parents are treating the situation as an isolated event. My son was lousy at football, great at soccer. Simple solution; he played soccer, wouldn't have accepted a "participation" award in football 'cause he knew he was rotten at it. I think it was around 8 years old when kids started football; that was a long time ago.

Which brings up another point. Somewhere around 5 years old, the age of my oldest granddaughter, the kids have not yet learned about losing. For that first year in T-ball, the participation trophy is important. Everyone gets one, but most of the kids don't realize that -- they just see their first trophy, and their appetite is whetted. By the time they are 6 or 7 years old, however, they know the difference, and they are smarter than parents often realize.

Which is more important: to try to protect the fragile egos of the losers even when they know they don't really deserve a ribbon, or to cheapen the accomplishment of the winners who will be ticked off to the point that they might not try as hard next time?

 

[Jagmandave]

I think the only thing I have to add to all the good discussion above is that a lot depends on age -and (I'll get creamed for saying this) sex. My grandkids play soccer, and until age 6 the boys and girls play on the same teams, after that they separate them. It's very clear that by age 6 most boys can easily out-muscle most girls - not 100%, but most. Also, it's clear that most girls do not have the same competetive drive that the boys do. My point is only that you have to temper your responces to the age and situation. When you get into the older kids, things change...........most of the older girls I saw playing were agressive, capable players - the others just don't go out for the teams. Less so with the boys, as they got older there were clear differences in ability and desire, but there was still a wide variety of both on the field.
Bottom line - we DO have to be careful what we teach our children - boys and girls - and make sure we're not perpetuating stereotypes too...........
There are very few things boys can do that girls can't and vice versa. The trick is in knowing what to support, and how much............

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Dan, Don & Dave, lots of good points in these posts!

A couple points of clairificaiton, these kids we were playing were 10 year olds, that means that many of them had been playing soccer for 5 years. We have a spring league and a fall league. Most of the kids play on both. So some of these kids are pretty darn good.

As to the SEX issue, I agree that they start out pretty even, then the boys get better at ages 7-8, but then it seems like it evens out a bit as the girls mature a bit.

Another point about the SEX issue is that EVERY dad but 1 was in favor of beating the kids but having it be a close game. I would say that EVERY mom, plus the 1 dad, was in favor of the kids beating the parents. Not sure what that really says, but the difference in the attitude of the genders was strikingly different.

Regarding the pay by merit raises . . . we do that too. People actually like it. It gets rid of the people who drag down the shift because they don't earn enough. And I look at it no differently than I look at pay for actors and athletes. The top performers should earn more in any given field.