5030
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 26,812
- Location
- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
- Tractor
- Kubota M9000 HDCC3 M9000 HDC
Only thing Mobil I use is the Mobil Rarus non detergent reciprocating compressor oil and Mobil way lubricant for my precision machine tools and I buy those specific oils from MSC in gallon jugs only.
And that's good operational advice for anyone running in your environment. Even in Kentucky, I absolutely believe in warming equipment, especially in cold temps (but nowhere like yours). I do have block heaters on everything and use them (well, except for an RTV1100 - glow plugs and gentle first starts). Still warm things up after. But that only takes care of our engines - slow going at first helps protect the expensive hydraulic stuff underneath. As do synthetics and lighter weight lubricants. Volumes have been written by the military on cold weather operations and the lubricant MILSPECs that support them - whole different world. And many of the "on condition" oil change ideas based on oil analysis that you use come from that world as well (and from commercial fleet maintenance in trucking).
And, yes, I also tell people don't shut a diesel down when you jump out of the cab after running at PTO speed for four hours in 90 degree weather... And...wait for it, I have a shut down timer on my Duramax set at 350 degrees for the turbo.
I respect your opinion on TSC lubricants - I just have never had a problem in the equipment I put it in with their branded "Premium" bucket. The others I have no experience with. I would not be comfortable using it in the more expensive machines we run in today's world. Unless I could see real world test data (and most of us mere mortals won't get that kind of stuff)...
GS650GL
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2024
- Messages
- 138
- Tractor
- LS XG3025, 1945 Farmall H, Farmall M, Mitsubishi MT2501D, Allis Chalmers B
We use Schaeffer's Simplex Supreme synthetic because my dealer sells Schaeffer's and I want to use synthetic in my hydrostatic machines for winter operation. Flows better in the cold and doesn't break down in the heat. The manual says GS Caltex which is not available in this part of the world.
Avenger
Veteran Member
I'm probably going to get some hate for this, but...
There is a lot of opinions here about what lubricants, and rightfully so. The lubricants run and protect your investment, you want to make sure you're adding the the right fluids. But you also realize that changing these lubricants can seriously damage your wallet. Some would say its the cost of doing business, while others will say oil is oil and your hard earned dollars are best spent elsewhere. Doing your 500hr service, where you pretty much change out all the fluids, is not cheap! I just did mine, as in, finished it yesterday.
I realized that changing out the hydraulic oil was going to be a bear. It holds just over 11 gallons of fluid. Now, not all that fluid will be removed, so lets say 10 gallons max. I went to North 40, it's kind of like a TSC but way better. The manual for my tractor specs API GL4 ISO VG 46/68. But lets put that aside for now, lets get into the store and down the isle with all these different oils.
I see shelves and rows of different colored jugs and bottles. Each one is either specified for a specific tractor manufacture or rating. Of course there isn't one for New Holland and certainly not for LS. But down on the bottom shelf there is a row of 5gal buckets. One says "Harvest King AW-46" on it. Well, turning the bucket around, it meets and exceeds the API GL4 rating. Check the price... $70!! And I need two of these, plus another 2 gal jug for extra. And this is the 'cheap' stuff.
We better keep looing. I walked around a bit, but didn't see any other brands. They carry Shell, Mobil, etc, but not in Hydraulic fluid. To the interwebs! Standing in the store I pull out my phone and press the Amazon icon. Search for hydraulic fluid...
I scroll through the options looking for brands I'd recognize and trust. I find Shell Rotella Heavy Duty Tractor Fluid, specifies API GL4 and is recommended for New Holland (LS) (and others). After taxes, it's $137 and I need two! Moving on, I find Chevron Rando HD ISO 46 for $124. Same story. I decided to go with the Harvest King. Is it the same as TSC Traverls? Probably. Do I care? no, not really. It meets the specifications, and now with 500hrs on the meter, I have not had a problem. And yes, I have been using this same fluid since the 50hr mark.
Hydraulic fluid is not under the same conditions as engine oil. While hydraulic fluid does lubricate and pressurize, it does not get that hot or have that much friction applied to it. Which is why it will last for so long inside the tractor vs engine oil. Hydraulic fluid will absorb moisture though, so it does need to be changed. Growing up on the farm, with our old machinery, we never changed it! Just always had to add more oil when the level got low, due to the various leaks!
My advice on the different lubricants is buy what you can afford and know why. I don't cheap out on the engine oil. I run Mobil 1 in all my vehicles, tractors, small engines, etc. Gear oil and hydraulic fluid is what I find on the shelf. I also am not a stickler for OEM filters. I could pay to have the manufactures name on the filter, or pay half as much and have Wix printed on it.
The 500hr service I just completed cost me about $400 in fluids and filters (thats quick math, I keep a stock of filters and most oils). If I was to use a name brand fluid, it would have been about $500 for the service.
The important thing here is to do the maintenance regularly. Either trailer the tractor to the dealership and pay to have them do it, or do it yourself, but do it. Don't get wrapped around the axle about what brand is what. Spend what you can, and do the work.
There is a lot of opinions here about what lubricants, and rightfully so. The lubricants run and protect your investment, you want to make sure you're adding the the right fluids. But you also realize that changing these lubricants can seriously damage your wallet. Some would say its the cost of doing business, while others will say oil is oil and your hard earned dollars are best spent elsewhere. Doing your 500hr service, where you pretty much change out all the fluids, is not cheap! I just did mine, as in, finished it yesterday.
I realized that changing out the hydraulic oil was going to be a bear. It holds just over 11 gallons of fluid. Now, not all that fluid will be removed, so lets say 10 gallons max. I went to North 40, it's kind of like a TSC but way better. The manual for my tractor specs API GL4 ISO VG 46/68. But lets put that aside for now, lets get into the store and down the isle with all these different oils.
I see shelves and rows of different colored jugs and bottles. Each one is either specified for a specific tractor manufacture or rating. Of course there isn't one for New Holland and certainly not for LS. But down on the bottom shelf there is a row of 5gal buckets. One says "Harvest King AW-46" on it. Well, turning the bucket around, it meets and exceeds the API GL4 rating. Check the price... $70!! And I need two of these, plus another 2 gal jug for extra. And this is the 'cheap' stuff.
We better keep looing. I walked around a bit, but didn't see any other brands. They carry Shell, Mobil, etc, but not in Hydraulic fluid. To the interwebs! Standing in the store I pull out my phone and press the Amazon icon. Search for hydraulic fluid...
I scroll through the options looking for brands I'd recognize and trust. I find Shell Rotella Heavy Duty Tractor Fluid, specifies API GL4 and is recommended for New Holland (LS) (and others). After taxes, it's $137 and I need two! Moving on, I find Chevron Rando HD ISO 46 for $124. Same story. I decided to go with the Harvest King. Is it the same as TSC Traverls? Probably. Do I care? no, not really. It meets the specifications, and now with 500hrs on the meter, I have not had a problem. And yes, I have been using this same fluid since the 50hr mark.
Hydraulic fluid is not under the same conditions as engine oil. While hydraulic fluid does lubricate and pressurize, it does not get that hot or have that much friction applied to it. Which is why it will last for so long inside the tractor vs engine oil. Hydraulic fluid will absorb moisture though, so it does need to be changed. Growing up on the farm, with our old machinery, we never changed it! Just always had to add more oil when the level got low, due to the various leaks!
My advice on the different lubricants is buy what you can afford and know why. I don't cheap out on the engine oil. I run Mobil 1 in all my vehicles, tractors, small engines, etc. Gear oil and hydraulic fluid is what I find on the shelf. I also am not a stickler for OEM filters. I could pay to have the manufactures name on the filter, or pay half as much and have Wix printed on it.
The 500hr service I just completed cost me about $400 in fluids and filters (thats quick math, I keep a stock of filters and most oils). If I was to use a name brand fluid, it would have been about $500 for the service.
The important thing here is to do the maintenance regularly. Either trailer the tractor to the dealership and pay to have them do it, or do it yourself, but do it. Don't get wrapped around the axle about what brand is what. Spend what you can, and do the work.
Nope, no hate at all. I like to read and learn, after 7 decades. By the way, your quote from Richard Bach made me remember his account of flying an F-84F in a thunderstorm - "all weather fighters" was probably a stretch back then...
I think (others may have experiential evidence) that hydraulic fluid used in certain tractor/implement applications may indeed get hot. Let's see what others say.
As for lubes, you make your choices and take your chances - I do. TSC or other Farm supply houses obviously do not refine oils. They buy them and slap a brand on - we assume they paid a refiner to meet a certain spec. But oil isn't their real business and their reputation isn't as crucial in this area. If Cummins asks Shell Oil to meet a certain spec, you can bet Shell meets it.
Maybe TSC refiners meet the spec too. I just have no way of knowing/testing. And many decades ago, hydraulic oil wasn't much more than 10W or 20W or 30W, etc. I only make the argument that today's machines call for much more sophisticated hydraulic lubricants and I have no way as a consumer to know what's really in the jug (but note that I put TSC Premium in older equipment with no problem).
As to Wix, they are my go to for bulk filters - they make Napa Gold and other premium brands and will show you exactly what design parameters were used on a filter on their site. If you know the LS spec and a Wix crossover spec is the same, I'd say buy it.
You have a good attitude on maintenance - that's the life of your machine. I would point out that your costs noted above are only 20% different for using top trusted brands though.
Isn't that pretty cheap insurance on an expensive machine?
I think (others may have experiential evidence) that hydraulic fluid used in certain tractor/implement applications may indeed get hot. Let's see what others say.
As for lubes, you make your choices and take your chances - I do. TSC or other Farm supply houses obviously do not refine oils. They buy them and slap a brand on - we assume they paid a refiner to meet a certain spec. But oil isn't their real business and their reputation isn't as crucial in this area. If Cummins asks Shell Oil to meet a certain spec, you can bet Shell meets it.
Maybe TSC refiners meet the spec too. I just have no way of knowing/testing. And many decades ago, hydraulic oil wasn't much more than 10W or 20W or 30W, etc. I only make the argument that today's machines call for much more sophisticated hydraulic lubricants and I have no way as a consumer to know what's really in the jug (but note that I put TSC Premium in older equipment with no problem).
As to Wix, they are my go to for bulk filters - they make Napa Gold and other premium brands and will show you exactly what design parameters were used on a filter on their site. If you know the LS spec and a Wix crossover spec is the same, I'd say buy it.
You have a good attitude on maintenance - that's the life of your machine. I would point out that your costs noted above are only 20% different for using top trusted brands though.
Isn't that pretty cheap insurance on an expensive machine?
spruce Deere
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2009
- Messages
- 1,149
- Location
- Northmost Idaho
- Tractor
- John Deere 790 with loader LS xr3140h also with loader plus a cab
It's good oil. And like you pointed out, I have no cold flow issues. Also like that it's died orange, very easy to see it on the dip stick or a sight glass. A while back, 35 odd years ago, I used thf 1000 to fill a chevy citation manual tranny, didn't have any atf..... Drove it for a couple years zero issues.
5030
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 26,812
- Location
- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
- Tractor
- Kubota M9000 HDCC3 M9000 HDC
It can be somewhat hard to get but I will say that besides my jobber, NAPA has it as well. 110% sold on it. Not a cheap date but good stuff isn't ever cheap.
There was a guy on here with the same tractor I have that worked the living tar out of it. He put in Amsoil, so at the break in filter change I did a DNR with it. No complaints. Dunno if I would have with what came in it though either...
My Dealer uses NAPA Tractor Hydraulic Fluid and so that is what I'm using. Works just fine for me.