What do you think of this stick welder?

[Haywire]

A Lincoln AC-225 stick welder. HD has it for $289.

I'm not a welder. I've played around just little bit with a light duty 110v wire welder.

I'm looking to try a stick for the versatility and the extra capacity in steel thickness for a cheaper price than a comparable mig.

How long does it take to learn to put down a decent weld? I say 'decent', which to me means structurally sound, but not visually perfect.

I have read the recommendations for getting an AC/DC unit, but I'm not willing to lay out the cash... the same unit in AC/DC is $546.

thanks,
Ian

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Haywire,
This is a frequent question here on this board about that particular welder. Its an OK choice at best. Not your best that is for sure. DC is always going to offer superior welds and be overall a more enjoyable welding experience. I represent a company that sells welders. They're from China, but many guys have bought them here on tbn. They're DC and offer a lot more than the unit you are looking at in the same price range. They're inverter based and a lot more smooth running than that unit. DC doesn't require the same amperage to get the same job done either. You're limited on the type of welding rods you can use with an AC only welder also. You'll want DC if you ever try it. AC will get you by on a spot repair, but its definitely better to use and learn on DC.

 

[LD1]

That would be what most people in my area refer to as the "tombstone" welder. (Because of its looks).

It is a decient welder. There's not much to a stick machine, and not much to go wrong. It is pretty easy to pick up on IMO.

I would suggest browsing c-list though. It's not uncommon to see those welders go for $75-$100. And like I said, theres not much to go wrong.

I would also reccomend getting 6013 or 7014 rod to start out with.

Too may of the "pros" want to tell you that you have to root pass with 6010 or 6011 and finish out with 7018 blah, blah.

But those rods are more difficult to get a good weld with and more difficult to learn. It can discourage one pretty easially.

I have welded a ton of stuff ranging from 1/8" up to 3/4-1" plus with the 6013 and 7014 rods with great success. But lets face it, when building 3PH stuff, trailers, average farm welds, etc, I dont need x-ray quality welds. PLUS, a good weld with 6013/7014 is stronger than a bad weld with 7018.

But remember, whenever you get a welder, be sure to post some pics of projects:thumbsup: or even just some practice runs:thumbsup:

 

[Haywire]

Then there's the hobart version... Hobart Stickmate LX 235 AC

 

[rankrank1]

A Lincoln AC-225 stick welder. HD has it for $289.

I'm not a welder. I've played around just little bit with a light duty 110v wire welder.

I'm looking to try a stick for the versatility and the extra capacity in steel thickness for a cheaper price than a comparable mig.

How long does it take to learn to put down a decent weld? I say 'decent', which to me means structurally sound, but not visually perfect.

I have read the recommendations for getting an AC/DC unit, but I'm not willing to lay out the cash... the same unit in AC/DC is $546.

thanks,
Ian

The Lincoln AC225 welder is good backyard shop type of welder. That said, I would not buy a brand new one. You can shop Craigslist and pick one up in good shape for $75-$150 or so. The AC225 is a tank and darn near indestructable so if it works when you buy it your grandkids will likely still be using the same welder.

If you are the type that simply has to have brand new then look at the Hobart Stickmate AC/DC which is about $100 bucks cheaper than the AC/DC Lincoln and actually has some good features of its own. DC is nice (so I hear - I have an old AC225 myself) but is not mandatory for a backyard shop. AC works just fine and there is less to go wrong with an AC unit - 6011, 6013, 7014 rods all work well (7018AC rods work too, but I do not use due to the rod storage issues that 7018 requires).

FWIW: I think any backyard primitive farmshop should have an AC225 (or Hobart equivalent) type welder as it can serve as more than a welder alone. Add twin carbon arc torch to the welder and you have a nearly free source of intense heat that can be used to heat metal for bending, brazing, silver soldering, flame fill welding, and it can even be used flameless style to heat frozen nuts which is great for sensitive areas where a flame could damage paint. The Twin carbon arc torch can be made for almost free or you can buy a used factory one for cheap and the carbon rods are cheap and last a long time. You will be hard pressed to find a cheaper source of heat that can burn up to 1000 degrees hotter than oxy/acet can - no expensive tanks or gas to buy - all you need is the AC welder. AC power actually works best for Twin Carbon arc as the two rods consume evenly. Twin Carbon arc will NOTcut metal but your welder still can be used to cut metal or to pierce holes by simply inserting 6011 into the stinger and cranking up the amps. Granted the cuts will not be plasma quaility, but can be cleaned up easily enough. You will be hard pressed to find a cheaper method of cutting metal and remeber we are talking backyard shop here.

If you pick up a used AC welder for say $100, you will never lose any money on it as it has depreciated as low as it ever going to. If you decide later that you do want DC capability to your arsenal then you can always pick up one of the Everlast Inverters like Mark mentioned. AT 200 amps output it will have much more capability than the Lincoln or Hobart will on DC power. (A used Lincoln AC 225 and a brand new Everlast Inverter would still cost less than purchasing a brand new Lincoln,Hobart, or Miller AC/DC unit - and you would have more DC amps available with the Everlast). I like the small size and lightweight capability that the Everlast inverter technology provides, but will the more senstive computer chips and circuit boards still be working 40 years from now like the Lincoln transformer unit will be - especially if your storage shop is an old damp barn with dirt floor like mine which is less than ideal for sensitive electronics, but does not hurt the old transformer one bit.

In short, You can do a lot with a $75 to $150 used Lincoln AC225 as a starter unit - You can weld with it, heat metal with it, and even cut metal with it so it is very versatile. Personally, I have a Lincoln AC225 and a seperate Lincoln SP-135 mig that I use on thin metal. If I ever decide that I need DC capability then I will pick up something like the Everlast. Regardless, If I could have only one welder it would be the AC225 as I can do more with it and do it cheaper too. Really it is worth the $60 that I paid for it used even if I only use it for the Twin Carbon arc torch power unit.

 

[moored4]

The tombstone is a good basic choice. How long does the sale last? If you got time, go to several places and price similar machines and ask a lot of questions!

I have mine in case I have to go out into the field and make a weld that I cannot get to the shop, Then I load it up in the farm trailer with the generator, Instant welding truck.:laughing:

I have had to weld a 2 thick strap back together and it did just fine! Is the machine designed to do that, NO! But if you had to and did your prep and took a lot of time and many passes it can be done. Was not fun!:ashamed:

 

[Haywire]

but will the more senstive computer chips and circuit boards still be working 40 years from now like the Lincoln transformer unit will be - especially if your storage shop is an old damp barn with dirt floor like mine which is less than ideal for sensitive electronics, but does not hurt the old transformer one bit.

Mark... what do you say to this? It would be stored in a barn, although with a concrete floor. Your prices are interesting..

Is there anything that the AC unit can do that the DC only unit would have trouble with?

Ian

 

[Shield Arc]

I check my local Craig's list about three times a day looking for good deals. I see these Lincoln AC machines all the time. Wow, they are priced all over the board, some people have the nerve to ask half again more than they sell new!

With so many of these for sale used I have to wonder if people buy them thinking they'll pickup welding in a day or two. But get frustrated and quite. Then try to recover the cost of the machine.

 

[Shield Arc]

Haywire I don't have a heated shop, I do have concrete floors. I've only had my Everlast PowerArc 200 for a few months, with no problems at all! Another thing, I have a Miller Dynasty 300 I'd guess is way more technical than the PoweArc, it's been in the same shop for 5-years without any problems too.

 

[PILOON]

A good ole tomstone, be it Lincoln or Hobart has served many for years and will for many more to come.
It is all in technique and practice.
Heck, you can weld with 2 12 volt batteries!
Many a farmer made welders with surplus 24volt aircraft generators and their welds held up.
While the term 'tombstone' is commonly used, generically it refers to any or most 220vac driven AC output in the 200-230 amp range, which for all practical purposes are but a HD transformer generally having about 70 or so volts open line output and weld at 24-30 VAC while working.
DC is easier to start a weld and makes a smoother bead but with practice that is all possible with AC as well.
The big thing is with AC (or DC) stick you get GOOD penetration which is not possible with the lower priced wire welders.
I have even welded thin metal stock with thin AC rods (3/32 6013) at low amps. Not pretty and grinding needed but it did the job.

 

[k0ua]

I have had one of the exact tombstone welders you are looking at for about 15 years. It has served me well, but it is for sale now, with an extra 30 foot of leads and on a cart with wheels to be able to move it around easily. I was hoping to get about $200 For it, but everyone keeps dashing my hopes, with this $75 to $150 dollar talk.. tho the cart (hand truck) costs about 30 dollars and the leads cost nearly $100 now. It will work well and last nearly forever. BUT..I now have one of the Everlast DC units, and I havent fired up my AC stick welder since.. Just havent found the need to go back to the buzz. The Everlast is 25 pounds, and you can throw it over your shoulder with the included strap and take off with it. The welds are much smoother , much less spatter, and much more pleasant to weld with. Plus much greater control of the heat ranges with the infinite control of a potentiometer, and digital readout instead of a switch with a few contacts. The old Lincoln, does not owe me a dime. I fixed more stuff with it over the years, to easily pay for itself. but if you want it, and you live near southwest Missouri, You can have it. With the one from HD you will soon discover, that you need long leads, as the supplied leads are way to short to do anything with, and the unit is "darn" heavy. Yo WILL want a way to move it around. DC is the way to go, you can make good, and even pretty welds with an AC only machine, it is just a little harder to do. If you want free advice, and maybe worth what you paid for it.. Spend a little more and get the AC/DC machine or get one of the Inverter DC machines. This if from a guy that has been there.

James K0UA

 

[rankrank1]

...Is there anything that the AC unit can do that the DC only unit would have trouble with?

Ian

If you are interested in the the Twin Carbon Arc process that I mentioned earlier then AC works much better than DC. You can use Twin carbon arc on DC but it will not work nearly as well since one rod will consume twice as fast as the other rod making it harder to maintain the flame. On AC Twin Carbon arc burns evenly - even a hack like me can easily maintain a flame on AC. Also, I have no idea if trying to use Twin Carbon arc would even work on on an Inverter based welder or if it would be good for it - it will not hurt or shorten the lifespan of a transformer welder one bit though. This al said if you have a oxy/acetylene type torch and willing to continue buying the expensive gas then this point is not important.

Generally speaking and limited to SMAW welding (aka stick welding), Anything that can be welded with AC power and rod can be welded with possibly a little more ease on DC power even when using identical rod. DC can make out of position work a little easier too - but skilled welders have no issues with AC. DC can also burn a few specialty rods that AC can not. On the other hand: Watch old videos from the 1950's and 1960's and they will claim that AC power is superior to DC power as it eliminates arc blow. Arc blow can sometimes be eliminated with DC too with some tricks.

If you want the cheapest welder that will last you the rest of your life then it does not get any cheaper or simpler than an AC transformer based power unit - Yes AC does have some limitations, but none that prevent the job from getting done in a backyard shop when dealing with everyday common steel. Upgrade a little to an AC/DC capable transformer unit and you will spend more but also have some DC capability that tops out at 1/8 rods maximum, for bigger rods bigger than 1/8" you will pretty much have to switch to AC power in order to have enough amps to power them. With the AC/DC transformer units the AC portion is still as bulletproof just like the AC only transformer welders, but there is more that can go wrong with the DC side like the diodes and rectifier bridges - still they will last a long time though.

An Inverter based welder will almost always be DC only. They will be lighter in weight, probably more powerful, and even consume less electricity to run than a comparable transformer based DC welder that is similar in price. However, Will it still be working 40 years from now - who knows? I do know that if I ever decide to buy an inverter based welder to add DC power to my arsenal that it will be a dual voltage one (115 volt and 230 volt) in order to gain the maximum beneift from the portability factor. Regardless I will never get rid of my AC only tranformer buzzbox unless I just stumbled across a super deal on an AC/DC transformer buzzbox.

There is no one single "low cost" welder that will do it all. It is all a matter what materials you intend to weld and how much you want to pay to do it. Since my welding adds zero dollars to my income, then low cost and durability are of utmost importance to me. For a business that generates profit, then Inverters can make perfect sense too. They can almost pay for themselves since they burn less electricity if used alot in a business environment. Being portable can be good too. Even if the inverter has a relatively short lifespan (still unknown), it can pay for itself in the business world where it might not to a private individual like me.

 

[Travelover]

My 2 cents. I only need a welder occasionally and I have an old Lincoln AC tombstone that I got as a gift in 1980. For what I do, it has served me well. If I was just starting, I'd look for an AC / DC model used on Craigslist. There is a tombstone model there right now for $250. Look on Search Tempest, and I'm sure you will also find one for less than the new tombstone at Home Depot. Many come with extras tossed in like a helmet and extra cables, rod, etc. If you decide to upgrade you will get all your money back with little effort.

Also, if you do the carbon arc thing, remember that you need to cover every square inch of your body or you will have a sunburn that you will not forget.

 

[RoMad]

I started my career as a welder (Boilermaker) and I have used many machines through the years. Always DC on the job, but for home I have an old Lincoln tombstone type AC machine that I bought at a yard sale over 25 years ago. It came with a bunch of lead so I never have to move it. I have it near my garage door so I can weld inside or out. The only rod I have ever used with it is 6011. I use 3/32 for light stuff like emt conduit for tree stands and 1/8 for bigger stuff. In my opinion the 6011 doesn't run much different than the 6010.
I have made tree stands, numerous trailers, my box blade, my 3 point hitch drag, and many many little projects.
If I was going to weld a lot I would buy an AC / DC machine, but for what I do my good old made in USA Lincoln does just fine.
I just remembered I have used it with SS rods. I made my wifes clothesline poles out of scrap ss I got at work. It welded just fine.

 

[rankrank1]

...Also, if you do the carbon arc thing, remember that you need to cover every square inch of your body or you will have a sunburn that you will not forget...

Yep good advice. You defintely have to wear your welding helmet when using. Also, I do not leave any skin exposed when I weld anyway so for me it is no different than dressing like I would weld - weld rays are not good for skin either.

Not quite as easy to use as a regular oxy/acet torch, but exponentially cheaper to use as compared to oxy/acet for an infrequent homeowner user like me for heating things.

About as close as it gets to a free lunch so to speak. Adds to my capability arsenal at zero cost.

 

[Haywire]

I would also recommend getting 6013 or 7014 rod to start out with.

I was at Lowes tonight looking at their welding stuff and flipped through a welding book they had.

They said that 6011 required a 1/8" gap between the rod and the weld and the 6013 was a 'contact' rod that you lightly drag through what you're welding on. Seems that would be easier to learn since you don't have to maintain a consistent gap.

What do you think?

BTW... I think I'm getting one of Mark's DC units, just have to decide if the 160 is good enough, or if I would regret not getting the 200 later.

Ian

 

[Brad_Blazer]

You'll want to try several types of rods as you are learning to weld. 6011 or 6010 if you are running DC is easiest by far for out-of-position welding. 7018 lets you just lay the rod on the piece and let it weld at the rate it consumes the rod. They all stick to the workpiece once in a while.

Try Mark's "make an offer" to save a little and get the 200 amp welder. The extra power will be worth it even if it just means you get 100% duty cycle for the range you weld in. If you want even more power check out the competitor Longevity offering 250 and 315 amp models. StickWeld 250 | IGBT 250AMP DC STICK WELDER

 

[Haywire]

The extra power will be worth it even if it just means you get 100% duty cycle for the range you weld in.

Good point. I read that 7018 required an oven for moisture control during storage or you'd get blow holes in your weld from steam. (like I'm not going to get stuff like that anyway LOL)

Ian

 

[MikeD74T]

I was at Lowes tonight looking at their welding stuff and flipped through a welding book they had.

They said that 6011 required a 1/8" gap between the rod and the weld and the 6013 was a 'contact' rod that you lightly drag through what you're welding on. Seems that would be easier to learn since you don't have to maintain a consistent gap.

What do you think?

BTW... I think I'm getting one of Mark's DC units, just have to decide if the 160 is good enough, or if I would regret not getting the 200 later.

Ian

Learning with drag rod is like learning with training wheels -you won't learn. Start with 6011 & you should be able to hold an arc within an hour, Strong & pretty takes longer. Unless you using rod heaver than 1/8" ( for example buildup or hardfacing buckets, etc) you won't use over 125 amp -200 isn't necessary. Anyone that welds 1/4" or thicker in one pass is a BSer or a serious professional welder with appropriate equipment.
MikeD74t

 

[crash325]

I don't claim to be a welder, but get by most of the time.

7018 Rod! Is very temperamental at best One professional welder says "when you get ready to weld, grab some 7018 and throw it as far as you can. Then get some 6011 and weld."

last summer when it was around 100 outside I was running some 5/32 and it looked like I knew what I was doing. That was at about 180 amps on an old AC buzz box. Same rod & welder 50 to 60 degrees outside, even at 225 amps, very hard to strike an arc and just as hard to maintain it. Best way to describe those welds is "Goober's". Not pretty and not strong.

6011 & 6013 Have slightly different qualities and uses, but both are easy to use by most anyone.