Ok, I see. So really this is a LS Brand loving thread with all these new 20 to 50 hour tractors. Everyone loves their LS for the first 100 hours until they need to fix it. Then they find out its a horrible dealer network connected to a horrible US importer and distributor.
"You must be beating up your machine." "You are using it as a skid steer or bulldozer." "You are doing this wrong or that wrong."
You lucky guys that use your tractor to get the mail or drive in parades don't understand what ranchers and farmers buy their tractors for.
I am not brand bashing anymore than LS dealers and LS itself is. I have worked with my dealer. Many times. I have also contacted LS. They do not fix anything, they throw parts at you until you are out of warranty then they stop responding to you.
You want the list? Sure, here it is. This is what I sent to LS. I followed up with them for a month and was getting no response. I escalated and got a 2 sentence response that basically said its out of warranty so talk to your dealer. My DEALER told me to contact LS. I replaced the real dealer name with just "Dealer".
I am sure you 20 hour LS lovers will just say its all my fault and LS is the best tractor ever. Even if the tractor never broke, LS and its dealers don't even get close to the support level John Deere and Kubota have. If this would have been a New Holland Boomer 40 it would still not had been this much of a mess since they would have fixed it.
January 2016 – Bought the tractor
(traded in JD 3032e with over 250 hours. Never had one issue with it in 2.5 years. Bought it new from JD for $17k and traded it in for $16k. It held its value very well. They also sold it pretty quick. I "beat" this tractor WAY harder then I use this LS.)
• I asked them about the noise from the steering and they said it was normal on the hydrostatics because of the pump. Seemed to turn ok at the time, but was very noisy.
o My JD did not do that and it was hydrostatic.
February 2016 – only a few hours on the unit
• Multiple hydraulic lines leaking on the FEL. They will not come fix, I have to bring in.
o Got them to fix it when I brought it in for scheduled service.
November 2016 – about 85 hours (in the shop)
• Oil Cooler cracked and spilled oil everywhere while I was mowing. Of course, this stopped the tractor in its tracks. No offer to come get it. Had to trailer it out of the pasture and to the dealer.
o Replaced oil cooler and hydraulic oil. Said they have seen the same issue on multiple other tractors where the cooler split.
o Said newer model cooler should be better. They degreased the whole tractor and said it was given a good bath.
• Also told them again about the steering issues and how it does not like to turn with the bucket loaded and makes a lot of noise.
o It ended up being a power steering pump and joint issue they said they replaced.
o This did fix the noise and the turning issue
• I also talked to Sam and John about the FEL quick connect not letting me pull up the handle sometimes and the pin getting lodged in a weird position.
o They said they greased and adjusted them. Did not fix the issue and one of the handles later broke after the loader warranty and I had to fix it out of pocket.
December 2016 – little less than 100 hours (tractor was in shop for months on this one)
• Tractor had been acting up and giving errors. It finally just stopped working normal and stayed in limp mode with errors on the screen.
o IMV Error Fault - Tractor would not stay cranked and would not go over 1200 RPMs when it would crank
o Brought it into the dealer. No pickup or demo given because I asked for it.
Dealer: We are changing out the fuel pump on your machine today. We were getting low fuel pressure from your old pump, but we aren't quite sure why.
I've got a call into my LS Service Rep this morning to talk this over some more. I'll give you an update this afternoon when we know more.
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We got the fuel pump taken off and in the process we "SAM" dropped a bolt down in the front timing case.
Big mess up on his part. To get the bolt out we are taking the front timing case off which is very labor intensive.
I've ordered a seal and gasket so we can make sure it is put back together correctly. I'll have parts for it on Thursday and Sam will reinstall everything.
We are kinda on hold until then. Sorry for the horrible news, but we will make it correct. I'll give you another update tomorrow afternoon.
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We have everything back together with the new pump on and all error codes are gone away, but we can't get the tractor to fire up.
My LS Rep told me to order injectors. What he is thinking is that they got water in them from the fuel and there is no way to test them.
LS is off for the holidays and they will be back in on Tuesday I will have the injectors on Wednesday..
I've also asked for the LS service rep to come and help out with this issue.
I'm sorry that we haven't been able to get your tractor back ready for you. I and LS will find a way to make it up to you.
John and Sam will be at the shop today until early afternoon if u need to get in touch with them.
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We will have the injectors today 12/28 from LS, and we will get them installed this afternoon.
We will need to test the tractor to make sure everything is running correctly after we install and reprogram.
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There are no signs of coolant leaking and they are separate systems, so I'm pretty sure that is not an issue.
I'm still not sure about all the water however. I'm wondering if LS put bad fuel in the tractor themselves or if the fuel you are getting has water in it.
We are going to drain the fuel tank this morning and also change out the fuel filter.
(they checked the fuel in the tank and it was fine, but told me the pump and injectors were all corroded up and looked horrible)
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We got the injectors swapped, but LS wanted your ECU Map file out of your tractor before we went any further. We downloaded the ECU map and emailed it to them so they can check it out. I should know how to proceed first thing in the morning. Last time they asked for the ECU map we downloaded it send it and received it and all was good with the tractor. I'm not sure what they did or didn't do to that ECU, but I'll ask what they are doing to yours. I'll be in early and let you know the out come.
Me: With the amount of issues we have encountered with the tractor do you think LS will let me trade in this tractor for a new tractor at an even trade? It really concerns me that this tractor will be considered a lemon. Please let me know what you think. If you have a 45 or 50 I may even be willing to pay the difference.
Dealer: I finally got something back from the bank. The most they will allow on trade for the current tractor is $16,777. If we look at the 50hp option in the same class (XR4150HC), which I have here in stock, I can cut my profit out and sell it to you for $29,560, which is $11,258 off MSRP and a grand off the cheapest "give-away" sale price we've ever done. So, despite how I try to polish a shine onto the situation, you'd still be looking at a $12,783 difference. If we look at a new unit in the same model as your current one, XR4140HC which I also have in stock, you're still looking at a roughly $9900 difference. So unless you want to jump on either of these options, I'd say we should stick with the plan and see if LS can get the injection system kink worked out of the current machine, and if not we have ground to ask for some extra help from them.
Me: Oh my, $16,777 is way lower than I expected. That would mean the tractor lost over 30% of its value in less than 1 year. That is scary and concerning. I guess I will have to wait on LS to figure this out.
Dealer: Sam and Alex are still working on it, but if we don't have a resolution soon I'm going to take it up with the CEO of LS Tractor USA see what he's willing to do. This is a really aggravating situation for us as well as you, and I appreciate your patience. They've got one more chance to get the thing running, and if that fails then they're going to have to be the guinea pigs on this problem themselves...not you and I.
• So what was the problem? They told me it was a combined issue and there was a lot that had to be done. No good answer about the REAL issue.
o They changed out the fuel pump
o They changed out the fuel injectors
o They replaced the fuel filter
o Drained and cleaned gas tank although no issues were found with the gas
o Fixed their “Sam dropped a bolt in a bad place” issue
o They said the fuel system looked corroded and had never seen anything like it; BUT, they are sure its ok now!?!
o They said they did talk to the LS rep for me to cover some or all of the expense to swap me out to a new, same exact model tractor and the LS rep said no. I trusted them (dealer) but should have called LS I guess directly at this point. I had no reason to not trust what they said.
February 2017 – about 100 hours (did not bring in for service, just called them)
• Asked Dealer about the tractor not having as much power as it did before. It did not feel like it was able to do what it could in the past.
o 1st time I noticed it would not go up my back hill in 2nd gear anymore.
o Also started noticing my hydrostatic peddles were not responding like they use to. They told me that something is probably stuck up in there like a stick or something and making them get stuck. I checked all under the tractor and there was nothing stuck up in there.
May 2017 – about 120 hours (back in the shop)
• Alternator was not charging the battery.
o They said it was probably because of the oil cooler issue I had.
o Dealer replaced the alternator and surrounding weather strip.
o Dealer said the starter should also be replaced and did that.
• Tractor was overheating and no matter how much I cleaned the alternator, AC condenser and oil cooler, it would still overheat.
o They said they replaced the belts and cleaned all the pulleys so it will not slip or squeak.
o Recommended I buy this tool from them for $50 to clean out the radiator, so I did.
o Sam said they also did something with a PTO sensor but I don’t 100% remember. Either they replaced it or did some update? Should have helped PTO performance he said.
• Tractor was not cooling the inside of the tractor like it use to. I asked them to replace the AC compressor also if they think it was affected by the oil issue like the alternator and the starter.
o They said the belt fix that they did would fix the issue.
• Told them the tractor still feels like its low on power and can’t make it up my hills in 2nd gear like it use to. I have to switch to 1st gear.
o They said it was probably related to the overheating issue and the belt fix should take care of it.
• I also had an issue where the AC vent would not stay in Recirculate mode.
o They said they replaced the O-Ring in it which was not holding.
• Found an oil leak under the tractor. All service done at Dealer.
o They found a missing O-ring and put on a new one.
• I talked to Sam and John about the fact that shifting from 2WD to 4WD was very hard.
o They said this could be tricky and sometimes the gears are just not in the right place to shift. I had to use the peddles to move the tractor back and forth to engage. This was no help.
June 2017 – about 125 hours (back in the shop)
• Tractor is still overheating even when radiator, condenser and oil cooler were clean
o Dealer replaced the radiator and said when they pulled it out it still had a lot of oil in it.
• Tractor is still not cooling the inside of the tractor well like it use to. Use to be ice cold.
o They said this was related to the overheating issue and it should get better.
• Tractor is still low on power and can’t make it up my hill in 2nd gear like it used to.
o Again, they said it was related to the overheating issue and it should be better now.
• The tractor would sometimes just die on me out of the blue. Found it to be related to the seat sensor.
o Dealer: Seat switch not working correctly. Replaced the seat frame and switch.
• The oil-soaked weather strips were starting to come apart and falling off
o They replaced the weather strip on the hood.
July 2017 – about 135 hours
(this was done over the phone. Would rather install myself then drive 6 hours to get them bolted on.)
• Metal bracket where 3pt stabilizers connect to the tractor frame was bending on one side and broke on the other. Called to find out what to do.
o Dealer: Those brackets are a weak link. Pun intended. We've got some new redesigned brackets that are in stock, you can pick them up if you want or we can ship them to you.
o Sent me the new updated brackets and arms.
[ I dealt with these hot months because I could not bring myself to have the tractor in the shop again ]
September 2017 – about 150 hours
(this was done over the phone. Would rather install myself then drive 6 hours to get them bolted on.)
• My outside mirror fell off while shredding. Then 2 days later I found the other mirror laying on the ground by the tractor in the shed.
o Called them and told them. They said it happens and the “old” mirror could break off if the tractor jumped around a lot while driving. They sent me two new “updated” mirrors that looked just like the ones I had.
• Told them again about the power issue and the AC not being cold. It also still overheats when mowing even though the radiator was rather clean.
o They said it was a hot summer and the AC not being ice cold in a glass cab is normal and I should maybe get tint. The power issue is in my head apparently.
[ The AC not being very cold did not come up during this time because its cooler outside. I gave up on the power issue and I ended up buying an old tractor (no cab) with a big old 14’ shredder and basically stopped using the LS and the 6’ shredder for mowing. Now I have the LS, a backhoe tractor and an old farm tractor for mowing. The LS is now a hay moving tractor and used for land cleanup because I have a grapple for it. That’s about it. ]
January 2018 – about 220 hours (back in the shop)
The 2-year warranty is about to go out and I still have issues that were never fixed! Contacted Dealer about my list of issues and they told me to drop it off January 2nd to get it all done before the warranty is out.
• Requested they do the 200-hour service. I do my service at the dealer when under warranty so I do not get warranty rejections because I serviced it myself.
o They said they would cover this one because of all the issues I have had.
• The AC is still not getting cold and it starts to fail after about 30 minutes in hot weather
o Dealer said it needed a new belt to fix the issue. The belts were squeaking so that meant they were slipping and causing the issue. The AC load will make the belts slip if they are not really tight and then it does not get cold. Put on new AC belt.
• Tractor still will overheat when mowing or using for over an hour or so even if the radiator is clean.
o Dealer said it was also a belt issue and the fan must be slipping not cooling the radiator and AC condenser. Replaced fan belt.
• The metal piece between the hood and windshield rattles a lot and seems to be coming loose.
o The rubber weather strip between the metal and the windshield was not installed on this tractor. All the others have it. They put on the missing weather strip.
• Quick attach levers are still sticky.
o Dealer: The loader only had a one-year warranty. They put on some grease. I grease them all the time, that is not the issue.
• Transmission case is leaking oil somewhere. Leaves a small puddle where parked.
o They can’t find a leak anywhere.
• The forward and reverse drive peddles are sticking and putting me in dangerous situations.
o They said the fix for this is a new Damper for the HST control. They adjusted something on the hydrostatic peddles or something like that also.
February 2018 – about 225 hours (back in the shop)
• The hydrostatic peddles are sticking even worse now. Before it was sometimes, now it’s pretty much always and I have to hit the opposite peddle to get it to stop.
o Dealer: We think it's the damper being too tight. There isn't any setting or adjustment on it. We do have the old damper that we can put back on. We need to fix the pedaling sticking.
o They ended up asking me to just use it for a while because it’s probably a break-in issue with the damper. It got better, but have never went back to the way it was when I bought it. It will still stick on me and make me almost run into things.
• The low power issues seem to have gotten worse. Same issue with 2nd gear not making it up the hill, but now I see the issue in other areas too. Am I losing HP? Is there another engine issue?
o Dealer: They don’t see any power lose compared to other tractors they have on the lot. Seems ok to them. Maybe it’s in my head they suggested because of all the issues I have had.
April 2018 – about 250 hours (back in the shop)
• The tractor is intermittently throwing an error. I get limp mode and a red square with ! in it and saying code F02 637.
o Called Dealer. They told me to check my manual. Page 3-46 just says it’s an "Engine error warning indicator". Dealer told me it was a "cam signal drift fault" and to not use it.
o Brought in the tractor to get fixed, but 2-year bumper to bumper warranty is out.
o Dealer had a 3-week delay because they apparently have to ship this one laptop they have back and forth from location to location.
o Dealer said it was a "camshaft position sensor". They ordered it.
Dealer: I just got done talking with the person in charge of warranty with LS, he informed that the camshaft position sensor is not covered under the powertrain. You are looking at a cost of $200.20 to take care of that, just wanted to make sure before we get it and repair it with a cost to you without your approval. Let me know.
ME: How is a "camshaft position sensor" now covered under the powertrain warranty?
Dealer: John said he will call LS and see what he could do.
Dealer: Its actually not a "camshaft position sensor", it’s the wiring harness. I confirmed that you do not have the updated wiring harness and we've ordered that today to replace it under warranty. That will give me a lot more confidence in telling you to expect a more trouble free experience going forward. There is an updated wiring harness that these tractors were suppose to get but yours does not have it. We will replace the wiring harness for you under warranty.
o Putting in the new "updated" wiring harness fixed the issue.
• While the tractor was in the shop once again, I asked about trade in because it’s in the shop too much and I don’t see others having this many issues. LS should do something for me with all this headache. This machine is a lemon. I can’t use it. I have had to buy other tractors to do the work that this tractor should be doing. I want my tractor switched out with a new one.
ME: Can you tell me what the trade in value on my tractor there would be? It’s in the shop way too much to be a primary tractor. It has 250 hours on it and I can't count how many issues it has had. Maybe this one it just a bad apple. I had my John Deere 3032e for 3 years and never had to take it in. I worked that tractor harder than I do this one.
Dealer: Yeah, I understand. It's been really frustrating for us too. I'll work on this and get back with you asap.
Dealer: LS is not going to provide any assistance. I can offer $17,573 trade in value.
ME: Really? Deal with all this and also lose $10k for issues out of my control? I am at my end here. LS should be working with me on this.
• The 4x4 lever broke off. This has been a real pain to use since day one.
o I had told them about this issue not long after I got it, but they said it was “somewhat normal” to have to work it to engage. It’s because of the gears.
o They said they would fix it under warranty, BUT…
o Dealer: As far as the 4x4 shifter there are a couple of the pieces we need that are on back order.
o I asked them to order the parts and let me know when I can come get it fixed.
o I have still not been told when I can come get it fixed. They just want to weld it instead of put on new parts. I don’t want my tractor in the shop forever again. Will wait for next issue that I am sure will come.
[ During this time, if something broke, I just repaired it and did not call Dealer. The bumper to bumper warranty is out and I did not want to deal with anymore dealer headache. Many items broke that I fixed.
• Still can’t mow much with it or it will overheat even though the coolers and radiator is spotless. Dealer says it does not happen and has had more than enough of my time to fix it.
• Still can’t get up hills in my property in 2nd gear when I use to have no issue. Still have to use 1st gear on small hills.
• The AC still does not get cold and started to not work altogether after about 30 minutes of use. (update: now the compressor is locked up)
• The FEL quick connect handle finally gave out.
• The metal cover behind the hood vibrated itself off so I welded it back on.
• The hood latch came off.
• The gas cap broke.
• The FEL stick started losing the screw on knuckles inside of it so I took it apart and used Loctite.
• The weather stripping started coming off again under the hood so I glued it on.
• The front windshield wiper will no longer works correctly because the bolt that holds it to the windshield is stripping out and will not stay tight.
• The windshield wiper water pump went out.
• The safety switch on the seat once again stopped working and I had to make a loop to get the tractor to run again.
• The AC controls in the cab fall out with any big bump.
• FWD and REV peddles still stick from time to time and put me in dangerous situations.
• And on and on and on…
This just is not right to treat a customer this way. ]
